BladeForums BEST BOWIE 2010 - Here are your finalists - let the voting begin!

What is your choice for the Best Bowie of 2010?

  • Bruce Bump Justice Bowie

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Jerry Fisk Artifact South West NLT

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Dave Lisch Flying Dragon Bowie

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Rodrigo Sfreddo Moghul Fighter

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Nick Wheeler W2 Fighter

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
  • Poll closed .
I can understand the appeal. But who decides what's a fighter and what's a bowie? If you think "bowie" is hard to define, try defining a fighter. :)

Roger

Roger well that will not be me that is for sure ;), I am just a metal beater and leave that to the more knowledgeable folks to figure that out :D.
 
Sure, kumbaya.

And...if the Sfreddo won the "BladeForums BEST BOWIE 2010" the rest of the knife world/community could point to this thread and exclaim (accurately) that BladeForumites are so stupid they cannot tell the difference between a fighter and a bowie.

Odd situation where you and Kevin are in accord, and I am on the outs with both of you, in the corner spitting venom, but so be it.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

I certainly see where you are coming from Steven. We regular participants on this customs forum pride ourselves as being Bowie aficionados. However, visitors who come here to see what the Bowie contest is about must think we don't even know what a Bowie knife is.

The problems is if we want to take this thing from being a casual contest or game to something quite a bit more serious and official then it's going to complicate things and cause quite a bit more work. I've helped Roger (yes, that's right) and it's no picnic figuring out and counting nominations and everyone's final seven. So creating a strict Best Bowie Contest, will most likely require a new Best Fighter Contest and then if we have both, it only makes sense that we have a third contest to find the best between both.

By the way, that could be the first time the word Kumbaya has been mentioned in connection with my name since I've been participating here. ;)

Kumbaya Kevin :thumbup: Has a nice ring to it. May be a good resolution for my new year.
 
The problems is if we want to take this thing from being a casual contest or game to something quite a bit more serious and official then it's going to complicate things and cause quite a bit more work. I've helped Roger (yes, that's right) and it's no picnic figuring out and counting nominations and everyone's final seven. So creating a strict Best Bowie Contest, will most likely require a new Best Fighter Contest and then if we have both, it only makes sense that we have a third contest to find the best between both.

Since we started doing this, it has always been casual, fun, and homegrown....I wouldn't change that.

I don't presume to tell Roger how to run his own threads.

What I DO believe is the right thing to go is speak up, make my points, and hopefully those who are more critical thinkers will vote, and at least have a "bowie-esque" knife be voted in.

Roger is correct in that other knives easily called fighters have won in the past. They just as easily could have been called(accurately) bowies, and this is not the case with the Moghul fighter.....it isn't even vaguely bowie influenced.

It's pretty, and it is masterfully crafted.

These things matter, and the more seriously the knife community takes BladeForums, the more something like this, while initiated for our own personal amusement, matters.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I didn't wanna say anything, but I have to go with STeven on this. While I have no problem with a BOWIE-influenced fighter, the Sfreddo is a (masterpiece level, mind you) PERSIAN OR EASTERN-influenced fighter. Nothing about the blade, guard or handle is Bowie-related or influenced in any way, shape or form. I'm sure there are Sfreddo Bowies which were well worthy of inclusion in the vote, but not this one, and it has kept a worthy Bowie out of the running, which I see as unfair.

Then again, that's always the problem with popularity contests; see, e.g., the NFL, NHL or MLB all star team selections, the Oscars, Grammies, etc. Anyone remember Jethro Tull winning the Grammy for Best HEAVY METAL Band???

Or, to use the old college Logic class method: just because SOME fighters are Bowies does not mean that ALL fighters are Bowies. And YES, that's a modified Persian dagger blade, not a Bowie blade.

I shall now don my rotten tomato protection clothing ...
 
OK, I am with the Sfreddo also because its well, a Sfreddo, and it is the most appealing knife to me and thats why I voted for it.

is it a Bowie? I don't know. Lots of knives considered "Bowies" by the noted cognoscenti of really old ones don't really fit any definition. Jim Bowie's probable knife looked a lot more like an Ol' Hickory butcher knife than anything.

Flayderman defines it:

" a weapon designed for a close encounter carried either as primary weapon, or in reserve for possibly ineffective small single shot firearms commonly carried in the first half of the 19th century".

The role defines the size-primary wepaons were bigger, reserve weapons were smaller. Like most things martial, they also became ornamental and downright useless.

The Bowie knife is all about intent

It can't really be defined. I have tried!
 
Roger is correct in that other knives easily called fighters have won in the past. They just as easily could have been called(accurately) bowies, and this is not the case with the Moghul fighter.....it isn't even vaguely bowie influenced.
STeven Garsson

STeven your point is well taken.

But if a knife is nominated for "Best Bowie", who will be the ruthless arbiter and channeler of Jim Bowie's spirit to pass judgment on whether it passes muster? And actually says "Be gone from this thread you Persian son of a serpent knife.

I am certain that Roger would pass on that opportunity and I wouldn't blame him a bit.

Perhaps you and/or I should consider doing a completely separate thread, that is restricted to 10+" blades and will subject all nominees to any sort of arbitrary and capricious subjective judgmental "BOWIE" analysis we feel like imposing? if we don't like the cut of its jib... it is toast.

Just a thought, could be fun...
 
They all look pretty incredible to me. :)
I would love the chance to handle all (or any!) of them.
If they were all out for me to handle at a show, I would pick up the Wheeler first.
He got my vote.
-Dion/Alaska
 
I voted for Mr. Wheeler's--when I close my eyes and think "bowie", it's the one that's closest to my mental image.

Outstanding knives all.
 
It is interesting (to me anyway) that in reading the posts, one would think the voting numbers would be different than they are?

Peter
 
And...if the Sfreddo won the "BladeForums BEST BOWIE 2010" the rest of the knife world/community could point to this thread and exclaim (accurately) that BladeForumites are so stupid they cannot tell the difference between a fighter and a bowie.

I very much doubt that, STeven. And if you have an articulable and universally accepted definition of "fighter" and "bowie" I am all ears.

The point has been made - and it is certainly true - that this contest is not the same as judging at a knife show. For one - it is entirely transparent as to submissions - we all know what was entered. For another, it is vastly more transparent as to selection - we have a good sampling of who voted for what and why. Finally, it is not the decision of an individual - or two to three individuals - but the decision of the community that carries the day.

But the judgment calls are essentially the same. At a show, if a judge thinks a knife doesn't belong in a given category, he won't select it. But he's doing nothing more than applying his personal, individual (however experienced) perception as to what a "bowie" is. That's all that the individuals voting are doing here - and their collective view carries the day.

You're not suggesting, are you, that at major knife shows across the country, there aren't knives that have won "Best Bowie" that could just as easily be described as a "fighter", are you? Does the greater knife community laugh / ridicule / spit venom at those selections?

...Lots of knives considered "Bowies" by the noted cognoscenti of really old ones don't really fit any definition. Jim Bowie's probable knife looked a lot more like an Ol' Hickory butcher knife than anything.

Flayderman defines it:

" a weapon designed for a close encounter carried either as primary weapon, or in reserve for possibly ineffective small single shot firearms commonly carried in the first half of the 19th century".

The role defines the size-primary wepaons were bigger, reserve weapons were smaller. Like most things martial, they also became ornamental and downright useless.

The Bowie knife is all about intent

It can't really be defined. I have tried!

Excellent point - and post - Anthony.

But if a knife is nominated for "Best Bowie", who will be the ruthless arbiter and channeler of Jim Bowie's spirit to pass judgment on whether it passes muster? And actually says "Be gone from this thread you Persian son of a serpent knife...

Well, I'm still waiting for those who want the contest restricted to the purest of pure bowies to let me know just what that is. "I know it when I see it" aint gonna cut it as a workable rule of inclusion / exclusion. At knife shows, is there someone standing at the door to the judging room vetting submissions and excluding those that, in their view, don't belong?

Roger
 
STeven your point is well taken.

But if a knife is nominated for "Best Bowie", who will be the ruthless arbiter and channeler of Jim Bowie's spirit to pass judgment on whether it passes muster? And actually says "Be gone from this thread you Persian son of a serpent knife.

I am certain that Roger would pass on that opportunity and I wouldn't blame him a bit.

Perhaps you and/or I should consider doing a completely separate thread, that is restricted to 10+" blades and will subject all nominees to any sort of arbitrary and capricious subjective judgmental "BOWIE" analysis we feel like imposing? if we don't like the cut of its jib... it is toast.
Just a thought, could be fun...

As it's much easier to just complaint than to come up with solutions, I'm glad to see someone finally trying to present some Peter :thumbup:. However I don't see how a 10+" blade length restriction helps? Are you suggesting that a Bowie has to have a 10+" blade?

If that's the case then the majority of the knives in this year's contest would be eliminated. All but the Fisk and your Lisch would be eliminated from the final 5. Our current leader has a 7-1/2" blade.

I'm ALL for having only Bowies in a Bowie contest, but it's much easier said than done. A quick look through "The Antique Bowie Knife Book" (Adams, Voyles, Moss) and "The Bowie Knife" (Flayderman) reveals that the Bowie Knife cuts a pretty broad path as far as definition and especially blade length.

Unless we are prepared to install a panel of "Bowie Experts" to submit every entry before for determination, then I suggest leaving things "as is" or simply eliminating "Bowie" from the name of the contest.
 
It is interesting (to me anyway) that in reading the posts, one would think the voting numbers would be different than they are?

Peter

In what way do you see a disconnect between commentary and voting? The comments of late and the voting of late seem very much in accord to me.

Roger

PS - could someone PM me and let me know - out of curiosity - whether my photos in post 1 are showing now, or whether some or all are showing the red x?
 
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PS - could someone PM me and let me know - out of curiosity - whether my photos in post 1 are showing now, or whether some or all are showing the red x?

Roger, I just cleared my cache and re-booted and I DO see all of the pictures in your first post.
 
In what way do you see a disconnect between commentary and voting? The comments of late and the voting of late seem very much in accord to me.

Roger

It seems that most of the comments are towards a "traditional" style of bowie, yet the "Justice" bowie is gaining in the lead, and for all the concern over the Moghul fighter being in the wrong style, it remains in second.

The Wheeler is gaining some ground though.

Peter
 
I'm not much of an aficionado and kind of a newb to the different styles of these big boys. [After this competition ends, I have a few questions about different kinds of knives and their classifications.]
 
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Are there some basic standards or metrics that differentiate a bowie from a fighter? What makes the two fighters NOT bowies and vice versa? Again, I ask from a position of ignorance, and not to stir the pot.

Good questions. I'll let the advocates of a bright line separation of fighter from bowie provide the answer. I will say that I think every knife in this final group with the exception of the Fisk could legitimately be described as a fighter.

But as to what characteristics are unique to a fighter and unique to a bowie such as to generally define knives that clearly must occupy one category and clearly must not occupy the other - well - I'm eager to hear.

And keep in mind the reason the bowie knife achieved a level of international fame and infamy before there was such a thing as mass media and the internet: it was through its use - real or imagined - as fighting knife.

Roger
 
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