Bladeforums Supporting Clone Dealer

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EngrSorenson said:
I’m actually completely comfortable with folks criticizing blade forums- or in this case Sparks, and not so much the forum. (Unless you feel that Sparks is the forum, but again, still fine with it). I’m less comfortable with your use of words like “rhetoric” and “no logic”, but that’s up to you how you want to characterize my initial message.

just as a brief side note- what do you think degrades a forum faster, one unethical dealer or a host of unpleasant people?

I realize this is the internet, and folks can say whatever they want. It’s fine; I go to work and play “PJ Masks” with my toddler, regardless. I’d prefer to walk away from Blade Forums discussion enlightened and feeing better for having participated, wouldn’t you?
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I would much rather deal with unpleasant people, who are unavoidable anywhere you go in real life or the internet, than see what certainly seems like a degradation in the values of the community that I was proud to be a part of. I apologize if my choice of words made you uncomfortable, but given your choice not to answer my question as to what there was to gain or materially address any of the points in my post I regretfully have to stand by my words
 
Roy Batty said:
You and a few others here are getting fairly aggressive when it comes to responding to opinions that don’t match your own. Calling someone a “clone apologist” isn’t proper given the argument that @EngrSorenson has repeatedly laid out. You shouldn’t be trying to bully people into aligning with your opinions, no matter how strongly you feel about them.

I fully realize that folks like craytab craytab and Quiet Quiet are attempting to censor this thread through their complaints to moderators, but people should be allowed to disagree with them and others here... at least I HOPE they can, otherwise this thread is NOT a discussion but an attempt to rally some cheerleaders for ONE particular viewpoint.

So, are differing opinions permitted here or not? Because by the looks of it, you guys are really coming down hard on everyone that isn’t of the mindset to criticize Spark.
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Edit: Resolved. :D
 
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Insipid Moniker said:
I would much rather deal with unpleasant people, who are unavoidable anywhere you go in real life or the internet, than see what certainly seems like a degradation in the values of the community that I was proud to be a part of. I apologize if my choice of words made you uncomfortable, but given your choice not to answer my question as to what there was to gain or materially address any of the points in my post I regretfully have to stand by my words
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But @EngrSorenson raises a valid question... and it would be easy to say that it’s better to deal with the unpleasant people while standing on the side of the significant majority on the issue. It seems as if after Spark has made his judgement on the matter, some rush to form a sort of coup by way of complaint threads and rallying forces behind a singular objective. I’m not sure that’s the best way to handle this situation, as now you have both sides entrenching themselves and getting ready for a fight... with logical fallacies abound.

Don’t support an outright and immediate ban? “Clone apologist” is the label assigned... and that’s completely unfair. Anyone with a differing view here has explained in detail why they understand why Spark called it the way he did. Perhaps trying to understand why they feel that way could facilitate better discussion on the matter.
 
Quiet said:
Boru13 Boru13 didn't you say something yesterday when you closed this thread about thread derailments? It sure does seem like some slime is attempting to slither back up and skirt the position to once again call me out personally. Here we are again, with a certain member who just (snaps fingers) can't seem to help himself in constantly responding to me, even when I haven't said anything to him.

Just wanting to understand how much leeway we have on responses here.
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I’m not taking your bait. Please stick to discussing the topic or don’t respond to me at all.
 
Roy Batty said:
I’m not taking your bait. Please stick to discussing the topic or don’t respond to me at all.
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Roy Batty said:
I fully realize that folks like craytab craytab and Quiet Quiet are attempting to censor this thread through their complaints to moderators, but people should be allowed to disagree with them and others here... at least I HOPE they can, otherwise this thread is NOT a discussion but an attempt to rally some cheerleaders for ONE particular viewpoint.
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Irony.
 
Anyway, moving on back to the topic at hand (because some stalkers can't let it go), it's pretty clear at this point that we are past the discussion phase of this. The site's owner has made up his mind, his administrators are commenting to this effect in other threads, and at this point, this will go the way all other clone threads have gone. Topomart is here to stay, and we can either accept it, or not. Me, I know that I'll be doing as others have done, and either won't be renewing my paid membership, or if I do, I'll never be at Platinum again. For those of you who have an issue with this, time to use the vote we have: membership fee dollars. Simple as that.
 
Quiet said:
Anyway, moving on back to the topic at hand (because some stalkers can't let it go), it's pretty clear at this point that we are past the discussion phase of this. The site's owner has made up his mind, his administrators are commenting to this effect in other threads, and at this point, this will go the way all other clone threads have gone. Topomart is here to stay, and we can either accept it, or not. Me, I know that I'll be doing as others have done, and either won't be renewing my paid membership, or if I do, I'll never be at Platinum again. For those of you who have an issue with this, time to use the vote we have: membership fee dollars. Simple as that.
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That isn’t fair, as other moderators have stated there are rules and a point system. There is a process in place for the removal of Topomart if warranted. I don’t think this matter is so significant an issue that people should leave the forum.

If a dealer tries to sell clones, report it. Report it enough, and the problem resolves itself.

This isn’t as significant an issue as its being made out to be.
 
Roy Batty said:
That isn’t fair, as other moderators have stated there are rules and a point system. There is a process in place for the removal of Topomart if warranted. I don’t think this matter is so significant an issue that people should leave the forum.

If a dealer tries to sell clones, report it. Report it enough, and the problem resolves itself.

This isn’t as significant an issue as its being made out to be.
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I am not concerned with what you think is fair. I don't agree with you or your stated position. My own position is not in any way negated by yours. Sorry, not sorry. Also, I'm not the only one, so this net loss over allowing a company whose primary business is selling clones should get the message across. Have a great day!
 
Quiet said:
I am not concerned with what you think is fair. I don't agree with you or your stated position. My own position is not in any way negated by yours. Sorry, not sorry. Also, I'm not the only one, so this net loss over allowing a company whose primary business is selling clones should get the message across. Have a great day!
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Okay I’m sorry you feel that way.

Okay sir, have a great day as well!
 
So...I was poking around the Topomart site. Don't worry, I had sanitizer. Their return and refund policy is curious...
The italicized/bold text are my comments...
Return & Refunds


Returns
Our policy lasts 60 days. If 60 days have gone by since your purchase, unfortunately we can’t offer you a refund or exchange.
60 days for a return seems reasonable. Shorter terms of 30 days are probably more common. No problem here.

To be eligible for a return, your item must be unused and in the same condition that you received it. It must also be in the original packaging.
No problem here either.

We only refund in the case of defective items because these are custom print on demand products and cannot be restocked, once printed we can’t re-sell them. We are a small company therefore we print and send. In most cases we will replace your order if there is a problem. The only case where a refund will be considered is in the case of defective item.
It starts to go off the rails here. Wut? Refund only in the case of a defective item? So there's no changing your mind with Topomart. That's not a good feature in a Blade Forums sponsored dealer. But what the heck is the print on demand stuff? They can't refund because each item is printed on demand and can't be restocked? It almost sounds like Topomart was in a different business line before they decided to hawk crap knives on BF. I understand there may be a language barrier but Topomart is clearly not talking about knives in their return/refund policy.

Non-returnable items:
Gift cards

To complete your return, we require a receipt or proof of purchase.
I'm sure this is to help Topomart confirm you aren't returning a clone of one of their clones. That would be horrible.

It is important you contact our support desk at topomart.com@gmail.com to confirm where to return your item.
Here's the kicker. This company is no different from Aliexpress or DHGate. They drop ship from China using cheap, subsidized international padded mailers. In the event you had a defective knife, you will never going to ship it back. USPS small parcel rates with tracking to ship from the US to China START at right around $50 USD. They know this and depend on it.

Refunds (if applicable)
Once your return is received and inspected, we will send you an email to notify you that we have received your returned item. We will also notify you of the approval or rejection of your refund.
If you are approved, then your refund will be processed, and a credit will automatically be applied to your credit card or original method of payment, within a certain amount of days.Sometimes we refund you by other method such as Paypal,Qiwi,Webmoney an so on.
So, if you pony up $50 to return a defective $15 knife, they reserve the right to refund you in, excuse me, "Webmoney"? What the heck is Webmoney?

In short this "Blade Forums Vendor" offers no support behind the sale using ambiguous language copy-pasted from some other kind of business. There is effectively no return or refund policy with Topomart because only an extremely stupid person would ever try to avail themselves of said policy.

Of course, if you buy from them in the first place you've already confirmed the extremely stupid part.

This vendor has no place alongside other Blade Forums Dealers. I hope other supporting dealers take note of this. The value of a dealer membership just took a big hit by lowering the bar to the floor.
 
Roy Batty said:
But @EngrSorenson raises a valid question... and it would be easy to say that it’s better to deal with the unpleasant people while standing on the side of the significant majority on the issue. It seems as if after Spark has made his judgement on the matter, some rush to form a sort of coup by way of complaint threads and rallying forces behind a singular objective. I’m not sure that’s the best way to handle this situation, as now you have both sides entrenching themselves and getting ready for a fight... with logical fallacies abound.

Don’t support an outright and immediate ban? “Clone apologist” is the label assigned... and that’s completely unfair. Anyone with a differing view here has explained in detail why they understand why Spark called it the way he did. Perhaps trying to understand why they feel that way could facilitate better discussion on the matter.
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Categorizing making our position clear on the policy at hand as a coup attempt is overdramatic to the point of silliness. As I said earlier, our only power on this forum is to make our opinions known and to decide whether or not to support it monetarily. Hardly leverage for any sort of coup.

His question may certainly be valid in general, but it's irrelevant to this thread and is an attempt to change the subject of the conversation from Topomart's dealer status to the various ills that make befall a forum. There's certainly room for that discussion elsewhere, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a simple derailment of the thread at hand.

As for your last point, I've never called him a clone apologist, so it seems totally disconnected to anything else in your statement. I suggest taking it up with those that have done so.

And your claim that everyone with a differing view has explained it in detail is simply false. Two members have suggested that we wait and see and neither has provided any gain that would come from that when questioned about it.
 
Roy Batty said:
I just viewed all Topomart’s threads and there isn’t any traction, no flocks of unknowing buyers running to Topomart with cash in hand. People here are making a mountain out of a molehill.
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Please back this up with proof. As you've stated before re: your feedback rating. "You don't know how many deals I've done via DM"

Thanks
 
Quiet said:
Anyway, moving on back to the topic at hand (because some stalkers can't let it go), it's pretty clear at this point that we are past the discussion phase of this. The site's owner has made up his mind, his administrators are commenting to this effect in other threads, and at this point, this will go the way all other clone threads have gone. Topomart is here to stay, and we can either accept it, or not. Me, I know that I'll be doing as others have done, and either won't be renewing my paid membership, or if I do, I'll never be at Platinum again. For those of you who have an issue with this, time to use the vote we have: membership fee dollars. Simple as that.
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Already voted with my $’s, have been platinum for no reason but to show support for the forum. This month dropped to gold, if this remains a cloner site, wasted my money on gold :mad:, won’t drop to basic, I’ll just drop out. :( Only matter of time till the “what you got on order”, what you carrying today”, “what did you cut today” type threads are garbage clone picture threads. :mad:
 
greatscoot said:
Please back this up with proof. As you've stated before re: your feedback rating. "You don't know how many deals I've done via DM"

Thanks
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It would stand to reason that if people were buying clones at volume, there would at LEAST be comments on the posts like “hey cool knives, so cheap, me likey” or something to that effect.

Unless you think there’s some underground clone buying operation, of which I’m not aware?

In any case, I’ve made it clear I don’t support the selling of clones here in BF, and I don’t support keeping clone dealers here personally.... but where we DIFFER is on the PROCESS.

Every paying member should have their “day in court”, analogous with abiding by the rules of the forum and suffering the consequences if they break them. I suspect it’s a strong possibility Topomart will break the rules by trying to sell clones, at which point the moderators will do what they do... of that I’m certain.

“Due process” vs. “ban him because of what he does off the forum”

Understanding that difference is key to understanding MY position. It’s a slippery slope IMHO to ban someone without a rules violation or series of them. It’ll lead to internet sleuths combing through dealer activity off the forum and creating a sort of “hit list” for bans. No, I don’t support that. Enforce the rules, or change them, but there should be RULES that govern the process.
 
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