Blades For Animal Defense?

The last time I was attacked (and bitten by a dog), I whacked it upside the head with a 26" ASP baton and that pretty well ended the aggressiveness. Fortunate for the dog, as I was also carrying a concealed 9mm pistol and I flatly informed the dog's owner that if it attacked me again I would kill it. I like dogs, but besides the biting dog there was another dog trying to break loose from the owner's control, and I certainly was not enthusiastic about being attacked by two dogs, both being good sized. Fortunately the owner retained control of the second dog. I think a good stout stick is probably better than a blade, particularly as dogs instinctively know what a club is but may not know what a knife is. A walking stick is also less likely to draw attention from passersby or police.

I don't think the owner ever understood how much danger her dogs were in.
 
Nell Hamm fought off a mountain lion that was attacking her husband. She used an ink pen and a log. I don't think it was even a tactical log.

SAN FRANCISCO — Wildlife officials credited a woman with saving her husband's life by clubbing a mountain lion that attacked him while the couple were hiking in a California state park.
Jim and Nell Hamm, who will celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary next month, were hiking in Prairie Creek Redwoods State Park when the lion pounced, officials said Thursday.
"He didn't scream. It was a different, horrible plea for help, and I turned around, and by then the cat had wrestled Jim to the ground," Nell Hamm said in an interview from the hospital where her husband was recovering from a torn scalp, puncture wounds and other injuries.

After the attack, game wardens closed the park about 320 miles north of San Francisco and released hounds to track the lion. They later shot and killed a pair of lions found near the trail where the attack happened.

The female mountain lion shot by game wardens was found to have human blood in her claws, leading the wildlife officials to believe the cat is responsible for attacking Hamm.
“We were confident from the start that we had the lions that were responsible,” said Steve Martarano, a California Department of Fish and Game spokesman.
The department’s wildlife forensics lab will now test the blood found in the lion’s claws to determine if it belongs to Hamm, Martarano said.
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Although the Hamms are experienced hikers, neither had seen a mountain lion before Jim Hamm was mauled, his wife said. Nell Hamm said she grabbed a four-inch-wide log and beat the animal with it, but it would not release its hold on her husband's head.

"Jim was talking to me all through this, and he said, 'I've got a pen in my pocket and get the pen and jab him in the eye,'" she said. "So I got the pen and tried to put it in his eye, but it didn't want to go in as easy as I thought it would."

When the pen bent and became useless, Nell Hamm went back to using the log. The lion eventually let go and, with blood on its snout, stood staring at the woman. She screamed and waved the log until the animal walked away.


"She saved his life, there is no doubt about it," said Steve Martarano, a spokesman for the Department of Fish and Game.

Nell Hamm, 65, said she was scared to leave her dazed, bleeding husband alone, so the couple walked a quarter-mile to a trail head, where she gathered branches to protect them if more lions came around. They waited until a ranger came by and summoned help.

"My concern was to get Jim out of there," she said. "I told him, 'Get up, get up, walk,' and he did."

Jim Hamm, 70, was in fair condition Thursday. He had to have his lips stitched back together and underwent surgery for lacerations on his head and body.

Nell Hamm warned people never to hike in the backcountry alone. Park rangers told the couple if Jim Hamm had been alone, he probably would not have survived.
"We fought harder than we ever have to save his life, and we fought together," she said.
 
Summer, 2004. Southern Californa

Later the same day, Anne Hjelle, 30, of Santa Ana, a former Marine who works as a fitness instructor, was jumped by the same mountain lion. Anne was attacked a short distance down the trail from Mark's body, which was not visible to her, while she was riding her mountain bicycle. The lion jumped her from a slight rise (~4 feet) on the right hand side of the trail, from under some high brush. The lion quickly had Anne's face in its mouth, despite the presence of Anne's helmet. Her riding companion, Debi Nicholls, was about 30 feet behind Anne and witnessed the attack. Debi threw her bike at the mountain lion, to no avail, then grabbed Anne's legs and screamed as the lion dragged both of them 30 feet down the slope into the brush. The lion kept attacking Anne, alternating between her helmet, face and neck. The screams brought Nils Magnuson, 33, of Long Beach, and Mike Castellano to the scene, who called 911 and scared off the mountain lion by throwing rocks at it.

Summer, 2004 California
26 June. 27-year-old Shannon Parker of Santa Monica, California, was attacked by a 2-year-old male cougar at about 6:15 p.m. near the Tulare County mountain community of Johnsondale, California, about 15 to 20 miles north of Kernville. Shannon lost her right eye and suffered injuries to her other eye and deep lacerations to her right thigh.

Shannon was hiking with her boyfriend, 28-year-old Mathias Maciejewski of Los Angeles, and two other friends, Jason Quirino, 30, and Ben Aaron Marsh, 15, both of Los Angeles, on a trail near the Johnsondale Bridge, which crosses the north fork of the Kern River. The trail follows a steep, rocky area up the west side of the river. Shannon left the group to walk back toward the parking area. She was attacked at a narrow area in the trail by a perilous 100 foot precipice.

When she began to scream, the others rushed to her assistance. "They heard her scream, 'Get it off me. Get it off me,'" said Brian Naslund, acting lieutenant for Kern County with the DFG. Maciejewski used a knife to stab the mountain lion twice in the shoulder, but it had little effect, Naslund said. Quirino or Marsh went to get help while Maciejewski and the remaining hiker threw rocks at the animal. "They hit it in the head a couple of times with the rocks, it let her go," Naslund said.
 
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Mr. Linton, so basically what you are saying is to stay the hell out of California. I have no problem with that, I've never been and don't plan on ever going.

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One day I stumbled upon the national mountain lion attack database (was researching for a data mining class), and recognize both of those stories you posted Thomas. It sure was an interesting read. Then this year, I found the wolf attack database. And no question, the wolf one gives me the heeby geebies far more than the mountain lion one. The wolf one reads like a horror movie.

My main takeaways of those are pretty simple, but I'm no expert. These are just some observations from a bit of reading.

1) safety in numbers. I can't recall a single death to a mountain lion when a group was around. And groups larger than 3-6 have almost never been attacked by bears or wolves.

2) any weapon is better than none. Obviously a gun is better than anything else, but there are lots of records of knives, sticks, etc.

3) know how to use the weapon to greatest effect.

4) for mountain lions at least, they had a clear preference for smaller individuals. Most attacks (by the numbers anyway), were on relatively smaller people, such as women and children.

Now, statistically speaking, such attacks are super infrequent/unlikely. And normal animal behavior is to be afraid of humans, so I try to remind myself of that while I'm out and about. So far my only precautions I've taken are to go hiking in groups of two or more, where at least one person has a gun, and each of us have a knife. I should probably bring some bear spray and hike with that. All I've seen yet though, is the hind foot of a black bear high tailing it away from us.

So what knife is best? I think a sturdy fixed blade is what id prefer. A good walking stick already in hand is likely very effective as well.
 
I don't know about historical precedent but my favorite "hiking" trail goes within 50 feet of a fairly well populated Coyote den. Not that I expect the Coyotes to view me as dinner any time soon, but you never know.
My favorite knives to carry on the trail are large Tri-Ad lock Cold Steel folders, the G-10 versions are quite light and come in a lot of pointy designs, it actually seems like they're designed to kill things.

Really I should have a shotgun, and honestly it probably doesn't make much difference how big your knife is as long as you have a good grip, but if an animal decides I'm worth messing with I just want to err on the side of killing it faster rather than slower.

We are of the same line of thinking, then:

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Both of these are my picks, they're both nearly as long (same reach) as their fixed blade counterparts

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But they both weigh approx. 1/3 of their fixed brother's weight, and can be carried in a pocket or clipped to the bag's shoulder strap.

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The lock makes them virtually equal in strength for this purpose.

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Intelligent decision for those who can't carry guns (and/or spray) :thumbup:

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I have a few properly insane guard dogs that are chained outside farmhouses I pass along one or the other of the roads I run along.

Running is severly inpeded by a 6 foot pole or other long range poke thing.

In so I have elected to carry any and all folders that can be opened onehanded. I have no great expectations of winning a dog fight, still I rather not loose the fight without an effort. Chris


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I have a few properly insane guard dogs that are chained outside farmhouses I pass along one or the other of the roads I run along.

Running is severly inpeded by a 6 foot pole or other long range poke thing.

In so I have elected to carry any and all folders that can be opened onehanded. I have no great expectations of winning a dog fight, still I rather not loose the fight without an effort. Chris


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Why not? A dog that has clamped down on you is an easy target for having it's throat cut.
 
I have a few properly insane guard dogs that are chained outside farmhouses I pass along one or the other of the roads I run along.

Running is severly inpeded by a 6 foot pole or other long range poke thing.

In so I have elected to carry any and all folders that can be opened onehanded. I have no great expectations of winning a dog fight, still I rather not loose the fight without an effort. Chris


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With dogs you have a pretty good chance , Cats ?
Cats go for the weakest in the group. I heard a story of a cat attaching a group of hikers multiple times, always going for just one. This hiker was in good shape, and the only thing they could determine, was that he had new boots, which had caused a slight blister. He had not even noticed it, but the cat sure had.
 
Felines are by definition apex predatorers, always finding the weak spot, person, or heard member. Christian


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In India, they have found that eyes on the back of your head (cheap human masks worn backward) greatly reduced tiger attacks on wood gatherers. I guess it's not an ambush if you're looking them in the eye.
 
Love this thread.

I have extensive experience with animal defense. I lived in a house with a HUD section 8 house behind me that had about 8 pit bulls. I have engaged them several times. The cretons that lived there turned a big buckskin colored pit loose on me one time. I had small children at that time. Living in fear of myself or my children getting mauled by a 100 lb alligator pit is no way to live. You get in trouble for shooting animals in an urban environment. My solution is a large blade or boar spear. Know the laws. In Texas spears are considered prohibited weapons. But they are the best solution to large dog defense. Those animals are incredibly quick, fast and intuitive. They will anticipate any strikes. They also recognize fear and aggression. My experience is that they will respect aggression. They don't like to get hurt. I had one cornered that had drove another neighbor woman and child onto the roof of a car. I could not land a shot with my Bowie no matter how fast I whipped the blade. I have a cold steel boar spear on hand for such encounters. For the record I am not anti- large/aggressive dog guy. I owned a Rottweiler for 10 years and he was a great family pet. It is usually not the dogs fault, it is the crappy owners of said dogs that are the problems.

I moved to the country and experienced even worse problems. Country people tend to have large breed dogs to protect their property. the problem comes when the dogs think the road or the adjacent properties are their territory as well. Many problems with that. Its a shame that going on a walk or bike ride becomes an adventure in itself lol. Newfoundlands, mixed breed hound/pits, chows are common. The speed in which they cover ground is scary. And walking or bicycling with an 8 ft boar spear tends to get one a 3 day trip to the loony bin courtesy ride provided by the Sheriff.
 
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