Bloody Bull#$%#

[Spenceds]

I don't know who was the "genius" that came up with the whole "stop the threat" crap, however deadly force is always gonna be deadly force. If you use it then your intent was to kill them or do serious bodily damage. I honestly think we need to implement the death penalty a lot more, too bad all the appeals processes and crap make it too expensive. Too many people think these criminals deserve to be treated like everyone else, what shit!!!

 

[Don Rearic]

Damn, Don, do you hate all cops?

I wanted to get the "nope" in before the shit started.

TSA are NOT "cops" although they might have some TSA police officers, I don't think the screeners are "cops."

The "officer" that drew his weapon at the McDonald's is not a cop, he's a criminal. If a CCW/CHL holder showed his weapon even accidentally in some jurisdictions, he is a criminal. So, I'm guessing this guy is a criminal.

I don't know how you can get the idea that I hate cops because of what I have posted in this thread. That's rather hypersensitive.

 

[Jetblack]

Good point there, JetBlack; however, the scenarios mentioned are not life or death situations. As an officer of the law, or as a Soldier, danger will always be there in your daily duties. In fact, it's expected. But why shoot to kill when you don't need to? To serve and protect ... who were you protecting when you shot the bum who rushed you with nothing in hand? Who were you protecting when you shot the driver who didn't listen to you? Yeah, maybe if you didn't shot him, he MIGHT run over someone with his reckless driving, but that's "MIGHT".

I'm just not a big supporter of police brutality. I think that, if you're going to protect and serve, really think about what that means and do the job right. Too many trigger-happy cops out there that just don't or probably won't get what it really means to "protect and serve". And, if you don't feel comfortable with the dangers of being a protector, don't join..

Well first of all YOU must be confused,Im not sure who you keep talking about, Ive never had to shoot anyone. second, every situation is different, officers are trained to deescalate a situation first, then as a last resort use the minimal ammount of force necessary to stop the threat. If you have been mistreated by an officer, then take it up with his superior, but saying that all cops are crazed egomaniacs who love to shoot unarmed bums and speeders is not only unfair, its moronic. And last, I dont know anyone who wears a badge that isnt "comfortable " with what the job entails, we go to work everyday trained and fully prepared for whatever may come, understanding that some know it all will be standing on his soap box yelling to the world how THEY would have done it different.

 

[Don Rearic]

If cops were on the loose shooting speeders the Baltimore Beltway would be littered with bodies on a daily basis.

 

[Grump]

I don't know how you can get the idea that I hate cops because of what I have posted in this thread. That's rather hypersensitive.

It seems like most of your comments are anti-law enforcement. I'm not hypersensitive or I wouldn't last a day on the street but you apparently don't like much about law enforcement.

That might mean that someone would have to actually learn how to use something.

I don't think it is going to happen, I think it is going to get worse.

As for some of the other comments, I don't think police should be trying to shoot guns or knives out of people's hands and the rest of the Hollywood nonsense, but I also think it is incredibly delusional to train to shoot someone to the deck with a .38 Spec., 9mm, .40 Cal., or .45 ACP, center of mass, and think you're not training to shoot to kill as opposed to the politically correct, "shoot to stop." Yes, you are shooting to stop the threat but the P.C.-B.S. inherent in the statement is the most effective way to stop, i.e., neutralize the threat is to kill the person or put them at death's door instantaneously. I won't get involved in appeals to authority or other stupid debating practices, this is reality to me and everything else is just feel-good nonsense. If you train to shoot someone center of mass multiple times until the threat is over, you can call it "Snow White and The Seven Dwarves" or some other Walt Disney title, you can call it something out of the Kama Sutra, I don't care. It's shooting to kill as far as I'm concerned and to claim otherwise is a complete and total disavowal of what bullets due to lungs and hearts.

I don't like the way the Taser trend is going, I keep hearing, seeing and reading news about them being used just because someone would not listen to a cop. OK, respect for the law is one thing, respect for an officer of the law is another, but if you think you can Taser a seven year old girl because she is (this actually happened) throwing a temper tantrum in the principal's office at elementary school - BURGER KING IS HIRING! Or, if you think that anyone who does not immediately bow to your WILL should be Tasered, likewise, I think you should be flipping burgers for a living and wearing the poop drawers.

[snipped content]

There are a lot of things in law enforcement that I think should be changed. I don't think, for example, a police officer should get in the way of a vehicle and then shoot the driver when he doesn't stop. I think that is a manufactured "good shoot" situation. I think there are times for it but I also think some of them end up stepping into a situation that wasn't going to be lethal but they made it so.

One of the problems that LEOs face is that it's most often the bad shit that makes it into the news. Meanwhile, tens of thousands of officers faithfully go about their daily duties and try to do what they think is in the public's best interest, knowing damn well that everyone is waiting to pounce on them if they screw up even a little bit.

Are there bad cops? Hell yes! Do all cops deserve to be painted with the same brush as the handful of rotten apples? I don't think so.

I know that I'm not going to change your mind about anything so I will likely sit out the rest of this thread so that I don't screw up a little bit and say something that I'll later regret.

Peace.

 

[stabman]

I'm generally against Tasers, but THIS was freakin hilarious!

 

[R.A.T.]

Well, I'm not LE but I have spent the last 10 years or so working closely with LE in various training classes and on other projects. I have to say that the guys I have worked with have been more than professional. I've been with them when they worked the public, on many occasions, and all I've ever witnessed has been respectful. No doubt there are some asshole cops out there and they need to be prosecuted if they go over the line, same as anyone else would be, but the ones I have seen are usually (not always) rookies who are getting their first taste of life with a gun and badge. Many years ago I was LE and after about 6 months of working the job, well, it becomes just a job and the thrill and excitement of being a cop subsides somewhat. I'm just saying that having been on both sides, I have a very healthy respect for the LE community and what they put up with on a daily basis from all sides. No wonder there is such a turn over rate in LE, as well as a suicide rate. I wouldn't have the job but I respect those who do take on the profession, stick with it, and truly act in a professional manner.

 

[riversidedep]

I would like to address the earlier question about why LEO's supposedly don't use their batons and/or ASPs as much anymore, instead opting to use their tasers. The answer is simple. Batons frequently cause major injuries such as broken bones. In the EXTENSIVE testing and studying of taser-type devices, it has been shown that severe injuries are much less likely to occur than "night-sticking" someone. Additionally, tasers allow LEOs to exert force from a distance, greatly reducing the possibility of injury to the officer.

As to the "shoot to kill" vs. "shoot to stop" discussion, those who claim this is a politically correct distinction only are incorrect. No LEOs, myself included, involved in a shooting are deliberately trying to "kill" the suspect. Our intent is to stop the suspect. Just because the suspect might be, or is likely to be, killed in the process does not mean that is our intent. A defense lawyer would just LOVE to hear an LEO state he was trying to "kill" the suspect. If I get through my entire career without ever have to shoot someone, I will be very happy. I don't need that kind of scarring on my soul.

I've had several jobs in my life, and been an LEO for about 11 years. I have to say that I've never been in a line of work before where everyone else knows more about my job, and how it should be done, than I do. I'd truly like to see how the critics would do in our shoes (if they could even pass the background checks).

 

[Superfuzz]

whatever happened to batons and ASPs? are they not considered effective anymore? you don't hear much about them these days... are LEO's encouraged not to use/carry them anymore?

Reply deleted as riversidedep covered the topic, much more eloquently then I.

 

[dougo83]

Good point there, JetBlack; however, the scenarios mentioned are not life or death situations. As an officer of the law, or as a Soldier, danger will always be there in your daily duties. In fact, it's expected. But why shoot to kill when you don't need to? To serve and protect ... who were you protecting when you shot the bum who rushed you with nothing in hand? Who were you protecting when you shot the driver who didn't listen to you? Yeah, maybe if you didn't shot him, he MIGHT run over someone with his reckless driving, but that's "MIGHT".

I'm just not a big supporter of police brutality. I think that, if you're going to protect and serve, really think about what that means and do the job right. Too many trigger-happy cops out there that just don't or probably won't get what it really means to "protect and serve". And, if you don't feel comfortable with the dangers of being a protector, don't join..

Sailblade. you obviously have no clue what you are talking about. Until you can provide a link or other verifiable proof of a cop putting 4 in somebody's skull for refusing to stop, you are just trolling. Cops have a very short time to make a life or death decision. Not like your time playing WoW...real life or death scenarios. You have simply smeared an entire profession because you have A. Smoked too much crack B. watched too many movies or C. Forgot to take your meds. There are a few bad apples, sure, but there are statistically far more dangerous people than your "trigger happy" cops.

Anyone who wants to dog police for doing a damn tough job just flat doesn't have the cajones to stand behind that badge. I watch these guys every day and want no part of what they do. It sucks. Everyone hates you. You are ALWAYS wrong. You can't win. For some reason, thousands still get up daily and do it while thousands of weaklings sit back and complain like they could do better.

 

[milani74]

Well said Doug.
I have seen first hand many foriegn national police agenices and have always thought that American LEOs have it the toughest due to the legal restrictions confining them. Hell even in civilized countries like Germany the Polizi carry sub machine guns in the air port and can literally beat you if you resist a DUI BAC sample.
I wonder what the ACLU and other agencies would say when that happened here.

 

[Jetblack]

I have to admit that I was angry with some of the earlier posts that seemed to be attacking LEOs, but after walking away for a while and thinking about it, Ive decided to post a final comment on this thread and be done with it. We are very fortunate to live in America, where everyone has the right to speak their mind. I for one wanted to say thank you to everyone who posted comments supporting law enforcement, most of us try to make our families and communities proud. And for those of you who have an issue with LEOs, or just flat out dont like us, I wish you the best as well.

Good luck.

 

[shotgunner11]

Guys, this is one of those topics that always ends up heated.

Please try to keep it civil or I'll have to pull the plug on it.

 

[dougo83]

Well said Doug.
I have seen first hand many foriegn national police agenices and have always thought that American LEOs have it the toughest due to the legal restrictions confining them. Hell even in civilized countries like Germany the Polizi carry sub machine guns in the air port and can literally beat you if you resist a DUI BAC sample.
I wonder what the ACLU and other agencies would say when that happened here.

Exactly. I got jacked in the skull by a Kraut cop for defending myself. And then got to spend a few days enjoying the finest shite hole jail in all of Koln.

I have to admit that I was angry with some of the earlier posts that seemed to be attacking LEOs, but after walking away for a while and thinking about it, Ive decided to post a final comment on this thread and be done with it. We are very fortunate to live in America, where everyone has the right to speak their mind. I for one wanted to say thank you to everyone who posted comments supporting law enforcement, most of us try to make our families and communities proud. And for those of you who have an issue with LEOs, or just flat out dont like us, I wish you the best as well.

Good luck.

Well said, JB.

Guys, this is one of those topics that always ends up heated.

Please try to keep it civil or I'll have to pull the plug on it.

Roger that. No apologies for what I said, but I'm gonna back out of this thread before I go off.

 

[sandgroper]

Yesterday, 11:28 PM

Don Rearic
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: 98th RAT in THE NEST
Posts: 6,353
Highway to Hell Album, best one they ever did. They're from Oz too, so it fits!
/QUOTE]

Yep Bon Scotts cemetery is in my neighbourhood!!

 

[sandgroper]

Very much agree with you riversidedep.

 

[Jake Bauer]

There was a story here in Dallas about a boy who had just graduated HS and was pulled over and refused to comply with the cops, and he was tased and died. The reason why he died was because the officer kept tasing him for more than 5 seconds (i think it was 5 seconds). The company who made the taser, as well as the law enforcement agency do not recommend using it for longer than that ammount of time. On the dashboard cam you can hear that taser going off for close to ten seconds or more. needless to say, that cop is out of a job.

I to support the police, and am in favor of using tasers rather than batons or live weapons, but it is true.. some of the egos have to go. As jeff pointed out earlier about "pecker measuring" to prove how tough someone is, some officers could be a bit more professional.

 

[turt]

At the end of the day... there are honest hard working people who get screwed on both sides... we can just try to encourage and support these people the best we can as we come across them in our lives. It is too hard to try and make sweeping generalizations about any one side. Just my thoughts.

 

[saiblade]

Grump/JetBlack,

First, let me say that I'm not a cop hater. I have friends who are cops. I think, for the most part, you guys go out there and do the best you can in every situation.

I'm merely throwing out my opinion on use of force. If that's not how you do business, then you have nothing to worry about. Continue to serve the city/State and feel good about it!

Spence, you're a cop, too? Same with you ... serve proudly, brother!!

saiblade
"The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just."

 

[dmonay]

You've got a gun and a Tazer and a crazy man is running at you with a flammable liquid intending to burn you to death. You have maybe 5 or ten seconds (if even that much time) to make a decision to either shoot center mass or deploy your Tazer what would YOU do. Officers are trained well but not all situations are in their training. No one wants to take a life but police are the ones (for the most part) responsible to make these decisions. Not ordinary citizens. Me, if I thought he was going to burn me to death, I'd have taken him down with my weapon. I would feel bad later but I'd be glad I was the one still standing.

On a lighter note I guess you could say that girl with the fire on her chest is HOT!