Bob Cargill Cripple Creek Knives

Thank you NirreBosse. I haven't heard from you in a while either. The reverse logo does make it a rarity. I have a few of them but they are like hens teeth. Here's a 1982 Muskrat.
The thing about any 1982 is they are rare and hard to come by as well. This was the same time period Cargill was
up to his armpits with work on the 2000 knives that Knife World hired him to do. This left him little time to do anything else.
There were only about 40 other knives made in '82 which makes them quite rare. As far as the reverse logo is concerned,
I am not sure if it was done at a customers request or if Bob just felt like doing it.
Bob was pretty much a one man show and could, and did, do whatever he wanted.
Greg

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The Smoke Signals are going to be a while. I want to post them a batch at a time rather than one here and there. I still have
to get them but I'm working on it.
Every now and then one of these will show up. Funny story behind this piece. The guy who was selling it was trying to hide the
reverse logo in some shadows of the photos. Must have thought it was bad or something.
Greg

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I've always taken the reversed blade logo etch to have just been an error, especially because of the number of knives Bob was attempting to make. I've had two of the reversed logo blade etch knives[
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WOW guys, I don't know what to say, I keep coming to this thread and I can't believe the knives and information you all are posting, this far exceeds my expectations when I started this thread, Thank you all!
 
And thank you Augie.
The reverse etching can be documented in the Smoke Signals where it is referred to as "special etching". Are some of them a mistake? Could be, but it would have been
obvious to Cargill or anyone buying one. I would consider it as a plus by making the piece unique.

Greg
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And thank you Augie.
The reverse etching can be documented in the Smoke Signals where it is referred to as "special etching". Are some of them a mistake? Could be, but it would have been
obvious to Cargill or anyone buying one. I would consider it as a plus by making the piece unique.

Greg
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That's where you're ahead of me, Greg. I've only seen a few of the Smoke Signals before this, so didn't have that bit of information. Suspect I need to adapt to the idea that, for whatever the reason, Bob was doing it on purpose.
Barry
 
WOW guys, I don't know what to say, I keep coming to this thread and I can't believe the knives and information you all are posting, this far exceeds my expectations when I started this thread, Thank you all!
Actually, Augie, you're the one to be thanked--if for nothing else than getting this thread started. It's so nice to have many people contributing to something where we all have an interest, thus increasing everyone's knowledge.
Barry
 
Actually, Augie, you're the one to be thanked--if for nothing else than getting this thread started. It's so nice to have many people contributing to something where we all have an interest, thus increasing everyone's knowledge.
Barry

Thank you Barry, it has become a valuable resource for anyone interested in Cripple Creek knives and Bob Cargill.

Since I started the thread I have been looking to add more Cripple Creek knives to the collection but for the most part have missed out, I did land a Barlow for the Fort City Knife Collectors Club that includes the original box and paperwork for the knife, it is a very well made Barlow.


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Cargill used stainless on the specialty knives like the 4th Anniversary piece and the Tribe knife as an example. The rest of them are all high carbon steel. Which particular steel I don't know. It wasn't that big of an issue
35 years ago. Most people couldn't tell the difference between one steel or another then and certainly not now. It is an issue to argue over and that's about it.
If you read thru the Smoke Signals I post you will get a better understanding of what Cripple Creeks are all about. Even the Smoke Signals are rare. The ones I will post are probably the only ones made in 1983-86.
They took a lot of time away from Cargill when he could be in the shop making knives. For this reason the Smoke Signals didn't continue for long. In time, I will be posting pages from a catalog of a large
collection that gives about as much information about Cripple Creeks out there. There are a few books that document the knives up to a certain point.
Keep in mind, the only knives Cargill did in large quantities were the Knife World knives and the NKCA knives as examples. The majority of Cripple Creeks were limited to small quantities. There is no rule
of thumb. For instance, there are 100 of a particular Trapper made and only 10 of another. Pearl Cripple Creeks outside of the Anniversary and NKCA knives only amount to about 3% of the knives.
Glad you like the Barlow Bugdoc.
More later.
Greg
Well, Greg, I doubt most people would have been able to actually be aware of the different sorts of steel, except by their effects.
One of the great differences in steels is, of course, their ability, or lack of ability, to hold an edge or work on various other materials. The original stain less steels were less able to maintain an edge, which is why knife makers, and I'm talking about the kitchen knife people, here, as well, shunned it for making their knives for the longest period of time (and, I wrote stain less intentionally, since such steels are subject to "staining" and the like, excepting LESS than other steels). Of course, I don't know what high carbon steel Bob was using, but I do know of the one case of his using the 440C stain less. As I recall, the 440 series of stainless steels were able to be hardened to 58-60 on the Rockwell scale. On the other hand the tool steels are able to be made harder than that, up to about 65 on the Rockwell scale. Cecil Pharr, who designed the Browne & Pharr take apart knife, used O1 tool steel, and designed the knife because he and his partner could not get a knife that would hold a decent edge for them. Glenn Marshall, of Mason, Texas, was preferential to O2 tool steel, which, from what I've been able to find, is quite similar to the O1 (which, I guess would seem to follow!). The key with tool steels, of course, is their very name: TOOL steel. That is to say, they are used to make tools for working other materials.
There major advantage of the stainless steels is, of course, that the need less attention for their appearance sake. (Which, of course, is the reason Cecil Pharr made his knife a take-apart--easy to keep clean! (Of course, half the people who get one of his knives don't bother to keep it clean in any case!0
Of course, the joker in all of it is that Bob also experimented with other materials, such as K-6 Stellite, whic) seems to have advantages of both the tool steels and the stainless steels, albeit with a higher price tag, certainly.
(Oh, yes, if you didn't know, the Rockwell scale is based upon indentation that can be made into something by a particular load of stress.)
 
Thank you Barry, it has become a valuable resource for anyone interested in Cripple Creek knives and Bob Cargill.

Since I started the thread I have been looking to add more Cripple Creek knives to the collection but for the most part have missed out, I did land a Barlow for the Fort City Knife Collectors Club that includes the original box and paperwork for the knife, it is a very well made Barlow.


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Very nice Augie.
 
Every Cripple Creek I have used I have been able to put a great edge on that lasts. I have used Lockport and Old Fort knives. Probably at least 5 different pieces with a fondness
for the 87 Whittler and the 84 Barlow. The Barlow is a stout piece and the Whittler fits the pocket well and has a coping blade. I used a Cargill Canoe for a while too.
Greg
 
WOW guys, I don't know what to say, I keep coming to this thread and I can't believe the knives and information you all are posting, this far exceeds my expectations when I started this thread, Thank you all!
Thank you to everyone who contributes. I always look forward to checking out the new pictures and information!
 
I don't know how much whittling one could actually do with this fellow. I know it's not Cripple Creek, but it is Cargill, probably from about the time he was starting with his CCC branding of knives, at least that's what I can figure from the tang stamp logo. It is a split back spring whittler, and I always called it the BIG whittler because it's six inches closed!The "BIG" SBSWhittler, 6".jpeg
 
I don't know how much whittling one could actually do with this fellow. I know it's not Cripple Creek, but it is Cargill, probably from about the time he was starting with his CCC branding of knives, at least that's what I can figure from the tang stamp logo. It is a split back spring whittler, and I always called it the BIG whittler because it's six inches closed!View attachment 1088712


Whaaaaa, a 6" whittler, WOW. Barry, that knife is over the top cool.
 
Could be a Display Knife or just a big ol' honker of a slip joint.
Referring to post 487 regarding blade steels, it's the proper heat treating of a particular steel that makes it suitable for blades
and why different blades of the identical steel can differ in edge retention and more. None of which really pertains to Cripple Creeks but
I just wanted to make sure and make a note of it. Cargill did do his own heat treating.
Greg
 
Could be a Display Knife or just a big ol' honker of a slip joint.
Referring to post 487 regarding blade steels, it's the proper heat treating of a particular steel that makes it suitable for blades
and why different blades of the identical steel can differ in edge retention and more. None of which really pertains to Cripple Creeks but
I just wanted to make sure and make a note of it. Cargill did do his own heat treating.
Greg
Of course, Greg, the optimal heat treating is ABSOLUTELY essential for the best edge and retention, BUT different steels do have the possibility of different hardnesses, thus retentions of edges.
The ONLY Cargill/Cripple Creek I've ever actually used (almost not at all, though) is the little Stellite. Don't think the usage even made an impression!
 
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Coax, if you're around, with the basic membership I believe you can get private messages. Could you check and see?
We would greatly appreciate seeing that knife of yours.

Here's a very rare Canoe Jack from 1983. The photo is from a one of our BF members. Thanks Barry. There were only a handful of Canoe Jacks made
and having a dated Oak Leaf Shield is even more rare. Rare, like the only one.
Greg

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Also, one of the odd-ball issues with this one is that it it's also a half-canoe! The blade end doesn't have the canoe kick.
 
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Can you tell me when Cargill's patent rights on the sliding bolster lock (US pat 4173068A) were transferred to Frost. I assume the rights were sold?
Cargill licensed Frost to use the sidelock (bolster lock) and Frost made a TON of knives (perhaps quite close to literally) utilizing the mechanism. Hen & Rooster also utilized the mechanism for one of the 1991 10th anniversary NKCA museum knives. Patents are valid generally for a period of seventeen years. Cargill would have gotten a fair amount of money for Frost's utilizing the mechanism. Having someone make "Fakes" of an original maker's designs or patents is one way for makers to gain some additional funds. Following is a gallery of some of the Frost knives that used the mechanism. The fourth page has five Frosts from a later period than the first three pages feature. The last knife in the second column is the Hen and Rooster. The last was made by a custom maker in Oregon in about 2008.View attachment 1091590View attachment 1091590View attachment 1091591View attachment 1091592View attachment 1091593
 
As mentioned previously in this thread, Cargill allowed Frost to use his sidelock. They were and probably still are good friends.
The patent wasn't sold or transferred to anyone.
Let's stick with what we know for sure and not add what may have, could have, probably sort of kinda in a way maybe might have happened to this thread.
The name of the thread is Bob Cargill Cripple Creek Knives.
Good solid info is always a benefit but when we stray outside of that things get going in a direction that isn't going to help anyone.
Greg
 
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