Boink, a real jerk, can not be trusted.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Pontiaker

Pontiaker

Feedback: +1 / =0 / -0
Joined
Sep 14, 1999
Messages
596
This all happened on another forum, but everyone needs to know about this so it wont happen to you.I will just give the facts.I bought a knife from Boink, an expensive custom framelock folder.As soon as I pulled it out of the box I found it had blade play, enough that it needed to be sent back to the maker for repair.I emailed Boink and told him about this and he did not believe me, got very defensive and refused to give my money back.I made a post on the other forums GBU and about this deal and he also got very offensive on those postings in public to the point of name calling, acting like a 10 year old and he was banned.One of the other members that read the GBU post remembered reading a post by Boink about the exact knife I bought where he actually complained about this same knife having the exact same problem I was complaining about! We actually found two posts that he made about the problem and him trying and failing to fix it himself! He advertised the knife was in NEW condition!He was caught red handed lying about the knife in public.After he was banned and after his derogatory remarks to me and other members he finally agreed to return my money less shipping two ways.He did include a production knife that I will be able to sell and get my shipping costs back.All in all it was the worst deal I have ever had in the three years I have been around these forums.Hope it does not happen to anyone else here or any other forums.
Matt
 
well its good to hear that he tried to make restitution to you. that was pretty deceitful, but at least it worked out (sort of?!?).
 
It’s unfortunate that, despite a peaceful resolution of a misunderstanding, Pontiaker is strident in spoiling my name. I do not know what his problem is, but it is far deeper than anyone can ever know.

We had a misundertanding that wound up at a stalemate. I broke the stalemate. I offered to pay Pontiaker money for his troubles. I offered to donate a knife to the forum. I apologized to the forum and to Pontiaker.

Here is the letter that accompanied my payment back to Pontiaker:

11/25/02

“From Boink
AKA Savas

Dear Matt:

Enclosed please find a money order in the amount of $475.00, plus my customized Spyderco Endura II.

I offer you this knife if in the event Kyle accepts the Smith knife as a donation for a Good Cause Auction, to help someone less fortunate. The Endura II is about the same price as a 15% resale of the Smith, plus or minus.

I have customized the knife with stair tread tape to make a decent, sharp protection knife that someone wouldn’t mind ditching if it came to that. The tape can optionally be removed for easy restoration to new condition - the stainless underneath is not marked or scuffed.

This is my way to say to you that I am sorry for any misunderstanding. With a knife whose lock was fixed and tested by Smith, handled by me and also handled by someone else, I did not believe you at first. I can only assume something happened during transit, now that your honesty is unquestioned.

I have apologized to Kyle and Lifter, people who I have exchanged harsh words with specifically. I have also apologized to the membership at large.

Take care and hope you enjoy your Thanksgiving Holiday.

Sincerely yours,



Savas”

Since that time, Pontiaker had then spewed some nasty words after the fact. This is my email back to Pontiaker:

“After sounding OK for some emails, you suddenly and without warning come off very angry.

We had a misunderstanding. I apologized to you for getting nasty during our argument. I offered you money for your trouble. I offered apologies and a donation to the website. What is it that you are unable to cut slack to a person who has shown remorse?

At this juncture, it's really not about me. It's about you.

Savas”

I do not know why Pontiaker continues to have a hard-on about me. Only Pontiaker would know this.
 
No one wants to go through what I had to to get my money back from a dishonest person.I will post the link and you will see the true colors of the person who now sounds so rational in the above post.He took this way to far, spewed way too much crap to be this easily forgiven.I gave him many opportunities to make this right before I ever made my first public post.Happy reading.
Matt

http://www.usualsuspect.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12638
 
I read the threads in question on the other site and I completely disagree with Pointakers charectization of the events as they happened.

In my opinion, Boink went out of his way to make this right (if there was even a problem in the first place, something of which I am not convinced). Boink was beyond reasonable about this. Offers were made for 3rd parties to handle transactions, and it seems that nothing will satisfy Pointaker at this point. Boink wanted the knife sent to the maker to make sure there was no damage to it - and the Maker's judgement would be the final say.

This turned into a huge pile-on / popularity contest and Boink was banned from USN :rolleyes: I cannot emphasize this enough - Boink went out of his way to try to make this right. The level of abuse heaped on him went way beyond the "offense" and this seems to be a further extension of the pissing contest.

I've had several dealings with Savas, and he's been *more* than honest with each one. He's been extremely laid back and easy to work with. His offers to make this right and even donate the knife in question for the USN Good Cause Auctions further exemplify this.

Kevin
 
Kevin, I dont know how you can feel this way after reading the post.To each his own.

1) He never offered anything until after he was banned.I never posted anything until after he told me to screw off and that I screwed up his knife, that he knew already had a problem! Not dishonest?

2) He would not admit anything was wrong with the knife, then we found his own posting's about the problem with the same knife in question! How the hell could that not be a problem? He admits in one post the knife is screwed up, then sells it to me a month later saying its perfect? Thats an ok thing to do? I have video of me shaking the knife, the blade is so loose you can hear it clicking back and fourth against the lock bar!

3) Boink is the one who refused the third party transfer of the knife and funds in person!

Shortly after this whole thing was over I found another knife, the same as this one for sale with the exact same problem, the maker is abviously having a problem keeping these knives tight.That seller admitted it in their posting.
 
Hold the phone, Boink sold him a knife he knew to be buggered up, check the threads Ira linked to. At first I thought he just did'nt know how to grade knives, but selling someone a problemed knife is just dirty pool.
 
I don't agree.

You said the knife was damaged, he said he didn't think so. He wanted it shipped to the maker to see if indeed it was, and if neccessary, it would be fixed there. Make no mistakes, you are saying that this knife is seriously screwed up. That right there is a major allegation, which could rightfully ruin any sellers reputation. If you say there is serious blade play and that the lock is screwed, then it needs to go JW to be evaluated at this point, because what you are saying the condition is and what Boink reports are worlds apart.

Boink has every right to be paranoid after this smear job. When I talked to him, he said that the knife was cherry when it left his hands - and now you say it's a loose, screwed up rattletrap. Every time you describe it, it's condition worsens. Now, no matter what he does, he's screwed. You could have damaged the knife, and said it arrived like that. It could have no damage at all, or minor play, and he's still smeared. His reputation has been sullied on several forums, while you act like you've been stabbed in the face. Not cool.

Until the maker has a chance to look at it, we won't have a final word on what is or isn't wrong with the knife. When I talked to Boink, he said that the knife was sent back for some minor customization - if the knife then left the maker in the state it's currently in, I'd say that it's not defective. Boink says that any rattling would be solved by tightening the pivot.

You jumped all over him in email, which was your right, but you went overboard and had all your friends dog pile on him as well. At that point, I have to agree with him - after sending out a knife I thought was fine, I'd want security before I blindly sent out the money too.

Neither of you wanted to back down past this. Personally, I would have sent the money and the knife to a third party, but short of that, sending the knife to JW and him sending you the money back would be the best solution. But, Savas did, and sent your your money before you sent the knife.

Look at it from his view - he sent a knife out he felt was great. You turn around and accuse him of swindling you, then start slamming him publicly, over what's probably minor blade play. Then you want him to send you the money back, without sending the knife, now possibly damaged.

Boink asked for an independant third party to evaluate the knife. You said no go. I have no problem with that - at that point, I'd refund your money on receipt of the knife.

Right or wrong, the knife needs to go back to JW for examination. You should have gotten your money back, regardless, but I'd be leery about this too as a seller after getting this sort of treatment.

If this is over minor blade play, I'm going to throw up my hands at this, and express my extreme disappointment in how it was handled. The fact that anyone would ruin someone else's reputation over something so minor as blade play in a folding knife is beyond me. It's a folder - it folds! It's impossible for it not to have some blade play. If you have to shake it really hard to get any noise out of it, what are you thinking?!? It's not a fixed blade, of course there is going to be some movement. :rolleyes:

Congrats - you ruined a sellers rep over the most machts nichts folder issue possible. Be proud. It's almost like putting away a child rapist drug dealer... you can rest easy tonight. He's such a scumbag, he even sent you another knife to try to make up... then turned around and tried to give the JW in question to the USN for it's good cause auctions. Truly a dirty character at work. :rolleyes:

Kevin
 
I would have avoided getting involved in this again but, Kevin, it seems that you have either radically misread the thread and/or you are believing someone's lies, particularly with regard to the issue of a third party. Since I was to have been that third party, let me set that part of the record straight:
  • I offered to broker a solution. It was not Boink's suggestion.
  • I would NOT have functioned as an arbitrator, passing judgement on the knife's condition. I simply offered to have Matt send the knife to me. I would then have met with Boink & exchanged the knife for Matt's refund.
  • The purpose was to overcome the distrust that each had for the other.
  • Boink refused the offer.
If there was a separate discussion of a third party evaluation, I am not aware of it.
 
Well I spent the last hour reading everything and I am going to have to agree with Boink. Pontiaker was obviuosly extremely unhappy with this knife, and weither that was warrented or not, I will not debate. What I do side with Boink with is that he wanted Pontiaker to mail the knife to JW Smith and upon JW's reciept of the knife, he was going to send Pontiaker a refund. What's wrong with that?? I do agree that any deal should be simple, two trusted parties, one sends a knife, the other sends the money. If the buyer is unhappy, refund money and get knife back. However due to how hostile Pontiaker was being about the deal from early on, I too, would be worried that he would purposly damage the knife before shipping it back to the seller. This is not such a wild conculsion. When Gig One had a problem with Striders CS recently, he was worried or should I say suspected that the knife would be mangled if or even when he recieved it. (Luckly everything worked out there) Pontiaker why didn't you take him up on the offer to send it to JW?? Did you think the knifemaker was in on it too??:rolleyes: This should be been a simple deal. Boink I am not saying your sh-t don't stink, but I think you wanted this resolved and went out of your way to do so, while still trying to cover your a-s. I don't blame you. As to the condition of the knife, As I mentioned above, I am not judging either way. To read how people jump on the wagon one-by-one to bash and back a friend is more sickning to me than comforting. Gulity unitl proven innocent is BS!!! It supposed to be the other way around. Boink that fact that you gave him another knife as a gift and offered the other as an auction is TOO much. Pontiaker, If this would have been you and I in this transaction, and you came out bashing, where I thought I was in the right, You would have been SOL!! However, if you would have emailed me with your concerns about the knife, regardless of reason, and were being dignified about it, I would have sent you a refund No questions asked.
 
It should have never happened it the first place. The knife had blade play. The blade play should have been noted before sale. Folks should learn how to grade knives:rolleyes:.
 
Originally posted by bob bowie
It should have never happened it the first place. The knife had blade play. The blade play should have been noted before sale. Folks should learn how to grade knives:rolleyes:.
Click to expand...

Like I said, I am not commenting on the knife conditon, If the seller sent a bogus knife, then the buyer has every right to expect a refund, but in order to recieve some cooperation, you should show some cooperation.

Just this past week I bought a knife off of a forum member here a BFC. When the knife arrived it had pitted rust on the blade. I contacted the seller, explained the situation and asked how to go about rectifing it. The seller quickly responded with a couple of options on how to remove the rust. After a trip to the hardware store and a treatment of the recomended solvent, about 15% of the rust remained and the finish was slightly damaged. I e-mailed the seller with my intentions of returning it. Not even 5 minutes later I have a refund via PayPal and a return address. This is the way business should be conducted.

I am pretty sure if I e-mailed the seller saying he tried to rip me off, the knife is bunk, and I want a refund before I even send the knife, I would have gotten allot less cooperation.
 
That was more of a general comment:).

I just don't get how people can side even a bit with Boink on this one. He sold Pontiaker a relatively high dollar knife that he even admitedly had some concern about, without even referencing it.
 
Should I assume that if I make a deal for a knife on BF that I should not be upset if it is misrepresented and that I am expected to allow the other part to instruct me as to how to repair the knife?
 
"Pitted rust" & "how to go about rectifing it"... WTF? Why should anyone even have to explain that if the rust were not mentioned up front, the deal is off?

It is, or should be, very simple. If both parties are not satisfied, there is NO deal.
 
These are just my opinions guys, When I engage in a deal. I expect nothing less than what is decribed. If I recieved a high dollar knife that had blade wobble to the point it was a concern, I would be highly upset myself. But I feel that Pointaiker may have overreated to this. Like I said, if Pointaiker was unhappy for any reason, he should have gotten an instant refund. However he came out swinging, accusing Boink of fruad and purposely selling a dammaged knife. This would worry me that he would purposly damage the knife even further before returning it to me. I don't think a buyer should have to go to the trouble of mailing the knife to the maker, but I can see why Boink wanted to do it that way. The fact that Pointiaker refused that set up, just made things worse.

Brian C- The knife with the rust was a disapointment, no doubt, But I really wanted this knife and figured that if I could salvage it I would just keep it. It was my suggestion that I try to fix it before sending it off for a refund, not the sellers.:)

(Edited to add) The seller stated that the knife had no rust when he mailed it, and I believe them.
 
knifeman, that's not being said at all.

Someone is not telling the whole truth here. Either the knife is a rattle trap with huge amounts of blade play, lock problems, and is a piece of crap, or this knife has a very minor problem that even maker didn't notice.

The truth probably lies in between.

If a knife is grossly misrepresented, hell yes, complain about it. Let everyone know. However, having to shake a knife extremely hard to get it to make noise is not something I normally do. Heck, if that picture posted on USN is an indication, that's a knife in 99.5+ percent condition.

Whoopee, it went back for lock work - the custom maker certified it as good to go, so it's effectively better than new if it left with the problem to begin with, right? I guess I just don't understand.

So, lets see.

Pointaker has his money back

He got a free knife as well

Savas even offered to donate the knife in question to the USN for their Good Cause Auctions.

Wow, talk about above and beyond. And yet, he's the one being treated like crap and smeared in the mud. Clearly he needed that cash bad enough to cheat someone else with a crappy custom knife by giving it away. I mean, I'm sure that JW Smith knife wouldn't sell at all on the forums with that huge blade play and obvious damage

Right. :rolleyes:
 
Kevin, your missing the whole point.There is no question about there being a problem, the seller admits it in his own posts on the forums.The problem is that he sold it without letting the buyer know there was a problem, that it had been sent in for repair at least once before,the seller tried to fix it himself and failed, and after selling it with the problem he would not reverse the deal.Thats it.

We all know your stand on the USN forum and how you dont get along with several of its members.Your just trying to side against the USN by standing up for Boink.Everyone else that reads the posts can see what kind of jerk Boink was(He even admits it himself!) and see that he did not handle the transaction correctly(also admitted by Boink).I know you would not have been happy with this knife if it was sold to you.
Matt

You dont have to shake the knife hard to hear and feel the problem, the slightest wiggle causes it to make noise.If it has been repaired before and still ends up loose, there is something causing this.The lock bar end needs to be heat treated or something but it still was not right.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top