TBG you are obviously confused as to the actual events that transpired. The seller had already admitted the knife had blade play, then sold it as perfect. That is NOT acceptable business practice, and I personally would refrain from dealing with anyone who thought it was.
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Boink, a real jerk, can not be trusted.
- Thread starter Pontiaker
- Start date
- Status
Eich1911
Search "Kyle Eichenseer" before dealing with me.
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2001
- Messages
- 253
Kevin
I know you and I have had a run in or two in the past, but this is the straight dope.
Boink is not what he seemes. Yes he made good in the end, but it took ALOT to get him there. Of course we did not accept the offer of the knife for the auctions, why would we take a gift from a person we do not deem worthy of membership? He knew what the answer would be going in.
#1 No matter if the knife had a slight ammount of blade play, or was as loose as a $5 china made knock off, if the buyer is not happy with the condition of the knife he recived, he should expect the deal to be undone, within a reasonable time frame (24 hour inspection is standard)
If the buyer is not happy with the knife, you give the money back no question about it.
#2 Yes Brian (and others guys, you rock) made the generous offer of setting up a meet to exchange the knife for cash/MO. Boink turned that down flat, then set out numerous hatefull e-mails to me and others. Then we made several other attempts to let boink make this right. He was given so many opportunities and turned them all down without a second thought. Only after he was banned, did he realize that he was done, and quickly made amends. Then all of a sudden offers the knife up for free.... Yeah ok.
I see this as bad dealings. If you don't see it that way, then you must be blind. If you read the thread at USN and read his tone and the way he conducted himself, how on earth can you come to the defense of such a person. Yes he apologized in the end, and I accepted that. But a man of dignity, honor, truth, and respect does not conduct himself in such a manner. I hold no ill will towards Boink, but how can you defend such actions???????
I am sorry, but I just don't see how on earth someone can defend these actions.
Guys that posted links to the USN, could you kindly remove them, or Kevin if you have a second, I would appreciate it.
Thanks in advance.
I know you and I have had a run in or two in the past, but this is the straight dope.
Boink is not what he seemes. Yes he made good in the end, but it took ALOT to get him there. Of course we did not accept the offer of the knife for the auctions, why would we take a gift from a person we do not deem worthy of membership? He knew what the answer would be going in.
#1 No matter if the knife had a slight ammount of blade play, or was as loose as a $5 china made knock off, if the buyer is not happy with the condition of the knife he recived, he should expect the deal to be undone, within a reasonable time frame (24 hour inspection is standard)
If the buyer is not happy with the knife, you give the money back no question about it.
#2 Yes Brian (and others guys, you rock) made the generous offer of setting up a meet to exchange the knife for cash/MO. Boink turned that down flat, then set out numerous hatefull e-mails to me and others. Then we made several other attempts to let boink make this right. He was given so many opportunities and turned them all down without a second thought. Only after he was banned, did he realize that he was done, and quickly made amends. Then all of a sudden offers the knife up for free.... Yeah ok.
I see this as bad dealings. If you don't see it that way, then you must be blind. If you read the thread at USN and read his tone and the way he conducted himself, how on earth can you come to the defense of such a person. Yes he apologized in the end, and I accepted that. But a man of dignity, honor, truth, and respect does not conduct himself in such a manner. I hold no ill will towards Boink, but how can you defend such actions???????
I am sorry, but I just don't see how on earth someone can defend these actions.
Guys that posted links to the USN, could you kindly remove them, or Kevin if you have a second, I would appreciate it.
Thanks in advance.
I would agree that if Boink knew in advance that the knife had issues and sold it as new then that is 100% his fault. I am questioning what steps were taken by the buyer to recieve his refund. All it should take it a e-mail and this matter should have been closed. However it ended up with one person being banned from a forum and his reputation tarnished. What I don't understand is why this whole issue wasn't taken care of on a private basis? Did Pointiaker e-mail Boink and request to exchange the knife before he posting in Who Sucks?? If so, I would like to see the context of that e-mail. Also considering the buyer was irrate, was it to much to ask that the knife be returned or even sent to a third party (JW Smith) before he sent a refund?? I guess I am not well versed in what exactly happened enough to make a judgement, and I am definatly not farmliar with how to take care of a standoff like this. All of my transactions via the forums have gone off without a hitch, with the exception of the one I mentioned above. And I already stated I would not hesitate to dseal with that person again. I am done posting here b/c obviously with my last two statements, I don't have much to contribute to this thread.
To "THE BAD GUY" What the hell do you think I tried to do first! Several emails went back and fourth before I even made my first post on the forum, I was called names, etc....The public post was the last resort! And to say I ganged up on him? I dont know 10% of the people that posted in the 17 pages of that post, give me a break! I never went and asked people to look at my post, or make a post there in my favor! The two people in this post that are trying to uphold Boink's name in this post need to go back and reread what really happened, stop listening to what Boink is telling you and read the posts.You dont understand what I had to go through to get my money back on a screwed up knife.I have been here over three years, do you think I just flipped one day and started screwing with people? WTF! Boink has been here for like 4 months and has had more than one problem in the past with this same type of problem, wake up people! Iam done here.
OK lets simplify this.
1)Seller puts knife up for sale stating it is in "MINT" condition.
2)Deal is made.
3)Buyer recieves knife in question with obvious blade play and scratches consistent with prior sharpening.
4)Buyer emails seller stating this knife is NOT in "MINT" condition as stated, demands to undo the deal.
5)Seller emails back accusing the buyer of screwing up the knife and refusing refund.
6)After failed attempts to undo the deal Buyer goes public.
7)After various name calling and accusations another forum menber does a search and finds "2" prior past posts from the seller mentioning the knife in question having blade play and the knife being a good user and easy to sharpen.
Hmmmmmm
So say I buy a Brand New Buck 110 from 1SKS. I get the knife open the package and find that it has been re-sharpened and has blade wobble. What kind of response am I gonna get from 1SKS. Do I have to send it to Buck for an independent third party review???
1)Seller puts knife up for sale stating it is in "MINT" condition.
2)Deal is made.
3)Buyer recieves knife in question with obvious blade play and scratches consistent with prior sharpening.
4)Buyer emails seller stating this knife is NOT in "MINT" condition as stated, demands to undo the deal.
5)Seller emails back accusing the buyer of screwing up the knife and refusing refund.
6)After failed attempts to undo the deal Buyer goes public.
7)After various name calling and accusations another forum menber does a search and finds "2" prior past posts from the seller mentioning the knife in question having blade play and the knife being a good user and easy to sharpen.
Hmmmmmm
So say I buy a Brand New Buck 110 from 1SKS. I get the knife open the package and find that it has been re-sharpened and has blade wobble. What kind of response am I gonna get from 1SKS. Do I have to send it to Buck for an independent third party review???
I have to ask, will Pontiaker be railing about this subject next year? the year after? Are we going to have a television retrospective entitled Pontiaker - my ten years in pursuit of sullying Savas name?
I have many good deals under my belt to one Pontiaker situation, which was a mutual distrust type of thing, no more, no less.
Brian C - you have my emails whereby I asked Pontiaker to send the knife to Smith for evaluation prior to giving him his money back, do you not? If you do not, I will happily forward them to you.
Folks there know, but wont admit, that I broke the stalemate of distrust as to how the do the exchange. It was the mutual distrust that blew this all out of proportion. It is now Pontiakers sole problem as to why he is compelled to keep sticking his nose in my rear. Its Christmastime; our country is poised to go to war, and Ponitakers waging war with me. Get a life.
Moreover, I have emails from folks who remain at USN and are on my side of the camp, although publicly they will never admit it. They know theyll be eaten alive.
As to pointing to prior posts indicating an issue, its all circumstantial and spun to the benefit of Ponitaker. The knife I sent was mint.
It was tuned up by J. W. Smith due to the lock-sticking problem and subsequently handled by another USN member who thought the knife desireable. Then it went to Pontiaker, who, out of the starting gate, sent me an abrasive email that had taken me aback and to view the man distrustfully, in consideration of the condition of the knife as handled by others and as sent by me.
Here is J. W. Smiths email to me.
Message sent: 9/27/2002
Savas,
I shipped your knife today via insured priority mail, I included $10 to
cover the shipping cost also. I adjusted the lock and added some grooves to
the locking bar to give a better grip when closing the blade. After the
adjustments I have opened and closed it around 100 times and it has worked
without a glitch. If you have any other problems please let me know.
Thanks,
John W. Smith
www.jwsmithknives.com
I got the knife back, flicked it some, and then put it back in the knife box. After that, I meet a USN member for the purpose of buying a blade from him and we agree to bring some of our stash for a meet and greet. He handles and digs the Smith. It goes back in the knife box. I then go to sell the Smith to support the cost of the new knife I just bought and --- WHAM! The situation happened.
Thinking that Pontiaker screwed up the knife, I asked him to send it to Smith for a repair, shipping costs to be paid by me, and that I would not accept the knife back for a refund. Pontiaker then threatens me and says he will tattle to his friends. Over time, I learn that Pontiaker has a good rep, but at this time, weve railed against one another and eaten each others lunch. So it finally came down to who ships what first.
I am the one who broke the stalemate and extended the trust to Pontiaker to have both the money and the knife. Reading in between the lines, this was an extension of friendship. I was raised to attempt to put fires out once ones been started. I then offer all the other good stuff posted prior that, if extended to normal individuals, would have seen the olive branch and taken it. Pontiaker and co. have decided to take a piece of the olive branch, throw the rest at me and continue to snipe in a gutless manner.
I said it before - what is it about folks who, shown remorse and a willingness to put things to bed, continue to pursue a negative agenda?
I have many good deals under my belt to one Pontiaker situation, which was a mutual distrust type of thing, no more, no less.
Brian C - you have my emails whereby I asked Pontiaker to send the knife to Smith for evaluation prior to giving him his money back, do you not? If you do not, I will happily forward them to you.
Folks there know, but wont admit, that I broke the stalemate of distrust as to how the do the exchange. It was the mutual distrust that blew this all out of proportion. It is now Pontiakers sole problem as to why he is compelled to keep sticking his nose in my rear. Its Christmastime; our country is poised to go to war, and Ponitakers waging war with me. Get a life.
Moreover, I have emails from folks who remain at USN and are on my side of the camp, although publicly they will never admit it. They know theyll be eaten alive.
As to pointing to prior posts indicating an issue, its all circumstantial and spun to the benefit of Ponitaker. The knife I sent was mint.
It was tuned up by J. W. Smith due to the lock-sticking problem and subsequently handled by another USN member who thought the knife desireable. Then it went to Pontiaker, who, out of the starting gate, sent me an abrasive email that had taken me aback and to view the man distrustfully, in consideration of the condition of the knife as handled by others and as sent by me.
Here is J. W. Smiths email to me.
Message sent: 9/27/2002
Savas,
I shipped your knife today via insured priority mail, I included $10 to
cover the shipping cost also. I adjusted the lock and added some grooves to
the locking bar to give a better grip when closing the blade. After the
adjustments I have opened and closed it around 100 times and it has worked
without a glitch. If you have any other problems please let me know.
Thanks,
John W. Smith
www.jwsmithknives.com
I got the knife back, flicked it some, and then put it back in the knife box. After that, I meet a USN member for the purpose of buying a blade from him and we agree to bring some of our stash for a meet and greet. He handles and digs the Smith. It goes back in the knife box. I then go to sell the Smith to support the cost of the new knife I just bought and --- WHAM! The situation happened.
Thinking that Pontiaker screwed up the knife, I asked him to send it to Smith for a repair, shipping costs to be paid by me, and that I would not accept the knife back for a refund. Pontiaker then threatens me and says he will tattle to his friends. Over time, I learn that Pontiaker has a good rep, but at this time, weve railed against one another and eaten each others lunch. So it finally came down to who ships what first.
I am the one who broke the stalemate and extended the trust to Pontiaker to have both the money and the knife. Reading in between the lines, this was an extension of friendship. I was raised to attempt to put fires out once ones been started. I then offer all the other good stuff posted prior that, if extended to normal individuals, would have seen the olive branch and taken it. Pontiaker and co. have decided to take a piece of the olive branch, throw the rest at me and continue to snipe in a gutless manner.
I said it before - what is it about folks who, shown remorse and a willingness to put things to bed, continue to pursue a negative agenda?
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2002
- Messages
- 402
Wouldnt it have been certified good to go the first time it was sold? And just because it came back and was worked on a second time why would this make it effectively better than new if it was sold certified good to go the first time? Fixing something only stays fixed if you correct the cause of the problem and dosent necessarily make it better just fixed. I am not trying to stir the pot just trying to understand the statement.............RB
wolfmann601
Gone, but not forgotton. RIP Ira.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2001
- Messages
- 7,385
Boink,
Just add that you posted an apology and blamed your very poor conduct throughout this incident on intoxication.
I will NOT post another link but you admitted to handling this poorly because you were "drunk".
I will add that this issue coming back to life surprises me, but the issues here were never "mutual".
You shipped a knife that "clicked" with minor "wrist action" [your terms] and stated it "sharpened easy". You then sold it as "MINT". There was some serious E-mail activity between you and Matt but because you were "DRUNK", you failed to deal with this up front and it blew up in your face............your bad.
But you have apologized, you have been punished and life should go forward for everyone. I do not understand why this is an "issue" again.
For what it's worth, I accepted your defense that your judgement throughout this was clouded by alcohol and it was for that reason you ended up banned. This entire issue should remain in the past.......................
Just add that you posted an apology and blamed your very poor conduct throughout this incident on intoxication.
I will NOT post another link but you admitted to handling this poorly because you were "drunk".
I will add that this issue coming back to life surprises me, but the issues here were never "mutual".
You shipped a knife that "clicked" with minor "wrist action" [your terms] and stated it "sharpened easy". You then sold it as "MINT". There was some serious E-mail activity between you and Matt but because you were "DRUNK", you failed to deal with this up front and it blew up in your face............your bad.
But you have apologized, you have been punished and life should go forward for everyone. I do not understand why this is an "issue" again.
For what it's worth, I accepted your defense that your judgement throughout this was clouded by alcohol and it was for that reason you ended up banned. This entire issue should remain in the past.......................
OK, just a little more clarification and then, hopefully, I'm done with this...
NIB & Ira, "blade play" & "sharpening" were different knives in different deals.
Yes & no, Boink. I have e-mails that you sent them to me after turning down my offer to broker an exchange. They are not copies of what you sent Matt, but rather you telling me what you told him. (Please do not send me copies of anything. I DON'T CARE.) In the first you said that you don't intend to refund Matt's money until you have Smith's evaluation. In the second, sent later that same day, you outline a proposal to give Matt a refund plus some expense money prior to an evaluation from Smith. As you described it to me, it would have been a lot of hassle for the buyer -- Matt sends the knife to Smith, gets it back, sells it, sends you the difference less a percentage, etc. I presume that things evolved from there but I DON'T CARE.
I am back here because, IMO, there was a need to correct some more details. Everyone, please do not draw me in again by using my name in reference to who did what to whom and when. I DON'T CARE.
I do agree that it would have been better if Matt did not bring this up again. The resolution may not have been amicable, but there was a resolution. Move along, folks. There is nothing more to see or accomplish here.
Happy Holidays, All!
NIB & Ira, "blade play" & "sharpening" were different knives in different deals.
Yes & no, Boink. I have e-mails that you sent them to me after turning down my offer to broker an exchange. They are not copies of what you sent Matt, but rather you telling me what you told him. (Please do not send me copies of anything. I DON'T CARE.) In the first you said that you don't intend to refund Matt's money until you have Smith's evaluation. In the second, sent later that same day, you outline a proposal to give Matt a refund plus some expense money prior to an evaluation from Smith. As you described it to me, it would have been a lot of hassle for the buyer -- Matt sends the knife to Smith, gets it back, sells it, sends you the difference less a percentage, etc. I presume that things evolved from there but I DON'T CARE.
I am back here because, IMO, there was a need to correct some more details. Everyone, please do not draw me in again by using my name in reference to who did what to whom and when. I DON'T CARE.
I do agree that it would have been better if Matt did not bring this up again. The resolution may not have been amicable, but there was a resolution. Move along, folks. There is nothing more to see or accomplish here.
Happy Holidays, All!
Boink,
Friendly advice,nothing more.
When you deal on the Bladeforums and a person has a problem with ANYTHING,send his money,or in the event of a trade,his knife or whatever back.Do not attempt to rectify the situation.SEND THE MONEY BACK.I have a no questions asked return policy on any of my deals.I even gave a guy a knife rather than accept his money on a deal that was a little out of tilt.$50.00 was not worth it.Believe me.
These guys around here will $uckin crucify you.AND you are GUILTY until proven INNOCENT.You will lose in the end.
The dudes at USN are even worse.
AND you do not want the "wolfdude" to get on you case no matter what.
My humble opinion
Friendly advice,nothing more.
When you deal on the Bladeforums and a person has a problem with ANYTHING,send his money,or in the event of a trade,his knife or whatever back.Do not attempt to rectify the situation.SEND THE MONEY BACK.I have a no questions asked return policy on any of my deals.I even gave a guy a knife rather than accept his money on a deal that was a little out of tilt.$50.00 was not worth it.Believe me.
These guys around here will $uckin crucify you.AND you are GUILTY until proven INNOCENT.You will lose in the end.
The dudes at USN are even worse.
AND you do not want the "wolfdude" to get on you case no matter what.
My humble opinion
So, you're saying just listen to one side of the argument, and not Boink's explination?
A couple problems I have with this deal.
The main one being, Pontiaker wasn't satisfied with the deal, so he should have been refunded, for whatever reason, but he wasn't.
Boink, you sent him a knife that you knew had had lock problems in the past, then accused him of doing something to it to make it bad. Did you do something wrong with it to make it bad in the first place? If not, then why was it so hard for you to believe that Pontiaker didn't do anything?
Pontiaker, Why didn't you just initially agree to have JW Smith certify that you didn't do anything wrong to the knife (don't forget I feel you should have been refunded w/out question, but..)? This could have ended a lot sooner had you just agreed to do that. It made you look like you had something to hide if you didn't want the knife inspected.
Boink- You eventually apologized, refunded the money, told him to keep the knife or donate it to USN. Too little too late. It was after you were caught trying to pass off a knife with a hx of lock problems as NIB, and then trying to question Pontiaker's credibility saying he messed up the knife. Was it worth it to have your reputation damaged over $400 some odd dollars, when ultimately you ended up without the money and the knife?
I hope this post is taken for what it is, and looked at as me playing the Devil's advocate, and not taking sides. Both parties should have done things differently, and this could have ended much sooner, and more peacefully, and Boink would still have a solid reputation.
Just be glad it's over, and move on.
Mike
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2001
- Messages
- 1,112
Why can't evryone just be like me? The world would be a much nicer place.
Hope that helps.
Hope that helps.
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 90,915
armsraised -- Why can't evryone just be like me? The world would be a much nicer place. Hope that helps.
db -- So who has the knife now? Is it still for sale? Can I buy it for cheap? I'll take it since no one wants it.
It took three pages to get to it but I think these two posts have finally got the answer!
db -- So who has the knife now? Is it still for sale? Can I buy it for cheap? I'll take it since no one wants it.
It took three pages to get to it but I think these two posts have finally got the answer!
The link needs to stay, so the readers can see for themselves whats going on.
This should have NEVER been drug over here in the first place, but now that it has, the forum members are entitled to all the information available, so they can make their own judgement.
Here is the link to the thread on the USN:
http://www.usualsuspect.net/forums/...&threadid=12638
The only other folks who get this treatment are child molesters, in which case the law is written to follow these cretins.
It's a knife deal gone bad, nothing more, nothing less. Ruffled feathers all around - stuff happens. Time to stop crying about it.
Pontiaker and I both had our divergent points of view. Pontiaker and I both have our avid supporters behind us.
Fact is - Pontiaker was paid.
Period.
End of story.
What in Sam Hill is he and his buddies doing here harassing me one month after the fact?
It's a knife deal gone bad, nothing more, nothing less. Ruffled feathers all around - stuff happens. Time to stop crying about it.
Pontiaker and I both had our divergent points of view. Pontiaker and I both have our avid supporters behind us.
Fact is - Pontiaker was paid.
Period.
End of story.
What in Sam Hill is he and his buddies doing here harassing me one month after the fact?
Well!
I see the thread at the USN has disappeared!
How very interesting!
Unfortunately, now people reading this thread can no longer gather all the information to make an informed judgement on their own, and I find that disturbing.
That is one reason we do not delete threads here; it leads to questions of integrity, and smacks of censorship.
I came into this thread with an open mind; I read this thread, and the thread at the USN, and I had made my own judgement on the whole sad mess.
Now, the USN thread has disappeared, so now I'd like to know why it is gone, and why the administrators over there saw the need to get rid of it. I have a good idea why it is gone, but I'll reserve my judgement until I find out.
Smells like a pile of **** to me.
I see the thread at the USN has disappeared!
How very interesting!
Unfortunately, now people reading this thread can no longer gather all the information to make an informed judgement on their own, and I find that disturbing.
That is one reason we do not delete threads here; it leads to questions of integrity, and smacks of censorship.
I came into this thread with an open mind; I read this thread, and the thread at the USN, and I had made my own judgement on the whole sad mess.
Now, the USN thread has disappeared, so now I'd like to know why it is gone, and why the administrators over there saw the need to get rid of it. I have a good idea why it is gone, but I'll reserve my judgement until I find out.
Smells like a pile of **** to me.
Eich1911
Search "Kyle Eichenseer" before dealing with me.
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2001
- Messages
- 253
Simple reason.
The thread was not removed.
Its still there.
Its called respect. If you or any other mod were to ask that a bladeforum link be removed from the USN, it would be done the second I could get to it. I see that we cannot expect the same amount of cooperation from you.
So I will ask yet again to remove the link to the USN.
Have a great day,
The thread was not removed.
Its still there.
Its called respect. If you or any other mod were to ask that a bladeforum link be removed from the USN, it would be done the second I could get to it. I see that we cannot expect the same amount of cooperation from you.
So I will ask yet again to remove the link to the USN.
Have a great day,
Eich;
You seem to be missing the point.
I left the link , and reposted it because the readers here deserved to see the whole story, from the beginning. Period. Removing the link, and now the thread, effectively limits the readers available information, so they no longer can make an informed decision about Boink & Pontiaker.
You didn't ask me; you asked Kevin. he didn't respond, probably because he agreed with me. Had you emailed me, and offered a respectful request, I'd have said why I wanted to leave it here. If you didn't agree with me, after a discussion, I'd have gladly removed the links. You didn't give me a chance at all, and now you have disrespected me, and the other members here by not allowing them to have some information relating to this thread.
I certainly don't think what you did is respectful, or fair in any way, shape, or form. Do you?
You seem to be missing the point.
I left the link , and reposted it because the readers here deserved to see the whole story, from the beginning. Period. Removing the link, and now the thread, effectively limits the readers available information, so they no longer can make an informed decision about Boink & Pontiaker.
You didn't ask me; you asked Kevin. he didn't respond, probably because he agreed with me. Had you emailed me, and offered a respectful request, I'd have said why I wanted to leave it here. If you didn't agree with me, after a discussion, I'd have gladly removed the links. You didn't give me a chance at all, and now you have disrespected me, and the other members here by not allowing them to have some information relating to this thread.
I certainly don't think what you did is respectful, or fair in any way, shape, or form. Do you?
- Status