boker reality based folder any good?

USAFSP said:
Yeah I think I wanna see all that too. Hey Blues, you gonna give her a workout on some cardboard or something so we can see the edge retention?
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Yeah, eventually I'll use it for something I suppose, and when I do, I'll let y'all know my impressions.

Other than that, I got to thinking about the "weapon" aspect of this knife. Why is Boker's advertising any less negative than Dalton's "Assassin" OTF autos? When you hear the word "stiletto," does it conjure up visions of a utilitarian knife to you? Do "Combat Elite's" folders appear to you to be intended for digging trenches or poking 6" - 8" in the dirt for mines? If not, what do you suppose the word "Combat" refers to? What reason on Earth is there to carry a boot knife if not for a backup weapon? (I'm talking civilian use here, not military. I could better understand the latter.) How about bali-songs? Like the Bradley "Mayhem?" Did Mr. Bradley call it that so his customers could cause mayhem on loose threads and trimming calouses, or maybe breaking down boxes? The Microtech line of "HALO" knives is based solely on a game where the player is an assassin fer cryin' out loud! The name "Pirahna" doesn't exactly inspire thoughts of utilitarian usage for their knives. Wilson Tactical (formerly Combat Elite) makes a myriad of variously-configured "fighters," as does almost every other highly-thought-of, high-end manufacturer. Hell, most all of those examples create visions of knife-wielding maniacs bent on murder moreso than the title "Reality Based Blade."

You know as well as I that I could go on all night finding advertising and marketing which portrays knives as weapons every bit as much as the one being discussed here. Interesting though, that in all of my surfing through here and other knife-related forums, only this one and Dark Ops has threads devoted entirely to knockin' 'em for exactly that, not to mention tearin' down those who just buy 'em because they like the looks of 'em. Not that I feel you've done that USAFSP, but it's certainly been a prevelent theme in this thread.

I, like many don't view knives as weapons. They are tools.
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I'd venture to say that, in the history of mankind, they've been weapons in most people's minds ions more time than they've been thought of as "tools." I'd further surmise that the shift in view didn't even get a strong foothold until well after the advent of the handgun. As Charles Barkley would say, "I could be wrong, but I doubt it." Not trying to be a smart-ass, I'm actually enjoying this discussion with you USAFSP, I just happen to think that a majority of objective observers would not agree with your above statement, although, in every-day-life terms, I see it exactly the same way you do. I just don't think the ummm....*reality* that knives can be and are weapons is mutually-exclusive to the premise that they're tools as well.

That and Jim Wagner may feel that these atributes are what a knife needs to be the perfect edged weapon, but as far as I know, he is not a knife maker/designer. He asked for a bunch of features and Boker threw them all together into this knife.
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Actually, according to the advertising you're complaining about so vociferously, you've got it exactly backwards.

....we at Boker asked him if he would design the ultimate tactical folding knife for police, military and security personnel, and this is the result - the Jim Wagner Reality-Based Blade.
Click to expand...
Listen, I'm not trying to get you or anyone else to *like* this knife. I really couldn't care less. I just don't understand the intensity with which it is being criticized, or the glaring inconsistencies between those criticizms of this knife as compared to others which are marketed in much the same way.

Bottom line, and as you have so graciously acquiesced, to each his own.

Have A Good'un,

Blues
 
BluesStringer, if I may use one of your pictures, here is my main problem with the knife:


rbb04a_400x300.jpg


rbb04b_400x300.jpg
http://www.picturehosting.org/images/kelaa/rbb04b.jpg
 
BluesStringer said:
The Microtech line of "HALO" knives is based solely on a game where the player is an assassin fer cryin' out loud!
Click to expand...

What game is that? :confused:

FWIW,
I criticize the knife because it looks stupid, not because of the ninja-esque sales pitch. ;)
 
I'm not surprised this knife has drawn such fire. Boker way over hyped the design starting at the SHOT show.

That said, very few people criticize Strider for their Nightmare grind which is similar or David Winch customs with a similar grind. The new Zero Tolerance 400 is very similar. Dark Ops is "Dork Ops" because of their insipid advertizing. Boker isn't as bad but they should have been smarter. The knife is much better than the hype Boker is using.

I actually find this grind very useful for both penetration and slicing.

The Boker I tried had extremely sharp edges and point.

As for "tool" and "weapon", a knife is both. Never be afraid to carry a weapon, it's your personal choice.

Thanks for the review Blues!
 
Well I did a poll on the BFC about a year back asking for people to vote on weapon vs. tool and the tool aspect won hands down. I am only having this discussion with you as it is interesting and thought it was a good way to pass a boring rainy Sunday night. There are a few points to pass out though, again not to call anyone including you out. First, the Halo was made long before the game was out. Long before the X Box was even out to be exact. Halo stands for High Altitude Low Opening and is the acronym for this knife. Darrel Ralph/Ryan Wilson's Combat Elite line of knives are advertized as strong field knives not weapons. The company, once Wilson Combat Knives, in now Combat Elite. As far as balisongs are concearned? Well I can argue that all night with you as that is the main love of mine, and the wife and I have a few. Balisongs are one of those knives with a dark cloud over them. The "Mayhem" bali may have a cool name but I don't find it as advertized as a weapon in any way shape or form. What the user does with it is thier buisness. In fact I emplore you to find a balisong add from any of the manufacturers/custom makers here that advertize thier knives as weapons. You probably can't. Like you I am just having some fun talking about this knife. I actually want to stop bashing on the advertizing and get into the usefullness of this blade. If it good in the end. Hell, I'll buy one and take some razzing myself. I am still considering it, just for fun. I have to get some sleep. We can chat about this tomorrow evening. Cheers.
 
Rat, you are the most argumentative person on this forum as far as I am concerned. Stay in W&C where your negativity has some humour to it.

I criticize the knife because it looks stupid, not because of the ninja-esque sales pitch.
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You would probably critisize a crooked knife too, because it looks stupid. This knife actually looks lot like a MT Vector, I'm sure there is some method behind the madness for the design.
 
I have a deep respect for anyone who can help dispatch evil doers to where they belong. And having this magnificent looking tool in the right hands, could help express that one-way-journey.
I don't have this extraordinary pocketblade to be able to make genuine firsthand comment on its virtues, but after reading the thoughts of Mr Wagner on this knife -http://www.hikestalkshoot.com/whatsnew/060210/index.html- I am sure it is what it says it is - a "100% self-defense WEAPON". I sure hope that it meets with great success as an OTS solution to the brave fighting folks who require them. But I am also a little wary that such a knife could be sold so easily to just to about anyone. Especially so the version with an attachable " false writing pen end" for those "who don't want casual observers to notice that they are carrying an edged weapon.." having said that, I sure hope that this feature doesn't fall into misuse going into the wrong hands. I am thrilled about its styling but more than a little concerned by the way its marketed and that its so openly available to the general public. IMHO, this thing really does require a licence or carrying permit, if at all that it really is all that its made out to be.
 
Like the knife or not, I REALLY do appreciate the fine pix BluesStringer. Thx too for the review :D
 
Girlymann, I live in America. Our permit for privately owning, carrying or using any weapon can be found in the 2nd Amendment of The Constitution of The United States. At least that's my view, though certainly, over the last 220 years or so, that "guarenteed" right has eroded significantly. Most people relate the 2nd Amendment only to gun rights, but I don't. If I wanted to dangle a frying pan off my belt and use it for a weapon, the 2nd Amendment should protect my right to do so.

This discussion reminds me a lot of the debate leading up to the Assault Weapons Ban back in '94. It didn't ban "assault" weapons as advertised, it banned combinations of cosmetic, virtually insignificant accessories found on most assault weapons. Specifically, a rifle is considered an "assault weapon" if it can accept a detachable magazine, and possesses two or more of the following features:

* Folding or telescopic stock
* Pistol grip protruding conspicuously beneath the stock
* Bayonet mount
* Flash suppressor or threaded barrel
* Grenade launcher

As you can see, only one item in that list makes any difference at all in the lethality of a gun, the grenade launcher, but in reality, that was a cosmetic ban too as the ammunition (grenades) to use it were already illegal. So you could buy all the parts of an AR-15 or Kalashnikov or Uzi, buy an after-market barrel without either a flash suppressor or threading to attach one, remove any bayonet mounts and voila! You're left with a fully-functional weapon with the exact same capabilities it had before, only minus a couple of features that made legislators feel good about themselves for "doing something" about gun crime. And that's all it accomplished.

The idea of regulating this, or any other knife, based solely on appearance or what a manufacturer says in their advertising about it, doesn't make a lick of sense to me. The problem with any knife or gun is not in its' design or potential for lethality, the problem resides in the intentions of the person wielding it. Outlawing or regulating how an inanimate object looks does absolutely nothing to prevent or reduce crime, nor does it lessen the lethality of the alternate tools-of-the-trade that criminals will inevitably utilize.

Thankfully, the AWB was allowed to die quietly when it wasn't renewed by Congress, and what was left of our 2nd Amendment rights before the ban were restored upon its' sunset.

So I honestly don't get why involving the government in issuing permits for the "right" to walk around with a knife like this in your pocket solves anything. It might solve the "problem" of some of the folks in here of having to be exposed to such "stupidity" or "goofyness" as a knife like this even being allowed to be seen in public, but it sure wouldn't solve a single problem regarding crime or how this, or any other knife, might be used or misused.

Blues

PS: Thanks pageophile!
 
Sheeeesh!

Even thought I haven't used or even handled it (plus my respect to Mr. Wagner as a tactical instructor), but that dang thing won't ever pique my interest since I haven't gotten over my "fantasy-based blade" use yet!!!
 
USAFSP said:
That and Jim Wagner may feel that these atributes are what a knife needs to be the perfect edged weapon, but as far as I know, he is not a knife maker/designer. He asked for a bunch of features and Boker threw them all together into this knife.
Click to expand...

Wagner is supposed to be the real deal. I agree though, good fighters do not necessarily make good knife designers. In fact, some of the most ridiculous designs I've seen have come from instructors. On the other hand, there are also examples of incredible knives coming from good instructors (viz. the Disciple, Kaspar's stuff, Floro's upside-down puukko), so there's no hard and fast rule. I have to agree with USAFSP, this knife does feel a bit like "instructor kitchen sink".

For me, one thing that doesn't matter so much is the steel ... for a strictly defensive knife, even 4A will hold an edge long enough. 440C is a fine choice. The big thing is that the knife should be priced accordingly lower, if it uses a less expensive steel. No problems here, reasonable steel, reasonable price.

I dislike this particular bladeshape. To me personally, it adds nothing to the function of the blade as a defensive piece. It is visually stunning though, and this hybrid tanto/hawkbill shape has gotten very popular among the more over-the-top models from some tactical makers. Add in that silly penetration line, and I just can't shake the bad taste.

That said, it looks like a lockback with a secure handle and sharp point. I'm sure it'll work fine in defensive use. {edit} Just saw Kel's comments, and agree, that could act as a stress riser.

Blue, Thanks for the great pics, and having the courage to post about a knife that I"m sure you knew would get an inconsistent welcome.

Joe
 
The Microtech line of "HALO" knives is based solely on a game where the player is an assassin fer cryin' out loud!
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It's not named after a game.
It's short for High Altitude Low Opening.
 
bladeprince said:
And just by chance you ever do need to use your knife for self defense or the defense of another, which would you like to hand over to the police as the first impression of who or what type of person you might be?

This ???

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=6/17617431690.jpg&s=f5

Or this ??

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=6/17617420327.jpg&s=f5
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Soooo.....I suppose when you buy a knife you weigh what you perceive a cop's reaction to it might be, and only go for the ones that you think will *look* all innocent and harmless to him? Is that such a far-fetched inference from what you just asked me?

Truth is, what cops think about any legal activity I choose to involve myself with never crosses my mind before, after or during engaging in that activity, so your question is meaningless to me. I like the knife so I bought it. I've never used a knife as a weapon and never intend to. Why anyone would have a single problem in the world with me buying one just because it's not your, or some unnamed cop's, cup of tea is beyond my ability to comprehend. Especially considering that I'm being asked to justify my purchasing a knife on a forum dedicated entirely to ummm.....KNIVES!!! And further considering that all I did was have the audacity to answer what I perceived to be an honest, good-faith query addressed to "anybody" who had handled this knife. Shame on me!! :confused: What do you want? Should I change my mind about liking the looks of this knife and admiring its' craftsmanship because you guys are worried about how a cop might react to me if he "catches" me with it? Gimme a break. It's a friggin' KNIFE, and I seriously doubt that any cop is going to go nearly as bonkers over it as he/she might go over me legally carrying a gun with a permit, when absolutely NO permit is required for any knife in my state. At this moment this evil-incarnate inanimate object is sitting in a locked display case, and when/if I ever decide to take it out, it will be to have it in my car to be used as exactly what most of you claim to think is the only legitimate use for a knife, as a tool to get me or mine or some stranger untrapped from a car. So relax, I'm on good terms with the cops here. I support 'em enforcing the law, but some of y'all seem to think that their opinion of my fully legal knife ought to make me cower at the thought of any encounter I might have with them if that knife is within the same zip-code as me! IF you guys are right about how much bad treatment I would bring upon myself by having the unmitigated gall to own this knife and let a cop know about it, then I would submit it's the cop who ought to rethink his view of his job responsibilities, not me for indulging my hobby of owning inanimate objects. I would also submit that those of you who think a cop would be justified in treating me different just because of the way my knife looks, need a refresher course on the Constitution, re: probable cause, search & seisure and the 2nd Amendment.

Jeesh, this is just plain wierd. All I did was answer a question fer cryin' out loud!

Blues
 
BluesStringer said:
Soooo.....I suppose when you buy a knife you weigh what you perceive a cop's reaction to it might be, and only go for the ones that you think will *look* all innocent and harmless to him? Is that such a far-fetched inference from what you just asked me?

Truth is, what cops think about any legal activity I choose to involve myself with never crosses my mind before, after or during engaging in that activity, so your question is meaningless to me. I like the knife so I bought it. I've never used a knife as a weapon and never intend to. Why anyone would have a single problem in the world with me buying one just because it's not your, or some unnamed cop's, cup of tea is beyond my ability to comprehend. Especially considering that I'm being asked to justify my purchasing a knife on a forum dedicated entirely to ummm.....KNIVES!!! And further considering that all I did was have the audacity to answer what I perceived to be an honest, good-faith query addressed to "anybody" who had handled this knife. Shame on me!! :confused: What do you want? Should I change my mind about liking the looks of this knife and admiring its' craftsmanship because you guys are worried about how a cop might react to me if he "catches" me with it? Gimme a break. It's a friggin' KNIFE, and I seriously doubt that any cop is going to go nearly as bonkers over it as he/she might go over me legally carrying a gun with a permit, when absolutely NO permit is required for any knife in my state. At this moment this evil-incarnate inanimate object is sitting in a locked display case, and when/if I ever decide to take it out, it will be to have it in my car to be used as exactly what most of you claim to think is the only legitimate use for a knife, as a tool to get me or mine or some stranger untrapped from a car. So relax, I'm on good terms with the cops here. I support 'em enforcing the law, but some of y'all seem to think that their opinion of my fully legal knife ought to make me cower at the thought of any encounter I might have with them if that knife is within the same zip-code as me! IF you guys are right about how much bad treatment I would bring upon myself by having the unmitigated gall to own this knife and let a cop know about it, then I would submit it's the cop who ought to rethink his view of his job responsibilities, not me for indulging my hobby of owning inanimate objects. I would also submit that those of you who think a cop would be justified in treating me different just because of the way my knife looks, need a refresher course on the Constitution, re: probable cause, search & seisure and the 2nd Amendment.

Jeesh, this is just plain wierd. All I did was answer a question fer cryin' out loud!

Blues
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Blues - I have to say , I agree 100% with you. I read your review with interest because first and foremost I like knives. I can be interested and even like a knife but at the same time feel a certain knife isn't for me. It happens all the time, but I'm still interested in what other people collect. It would be real boring around here if we didn't get a good cross section of different tastes.

Also discouraging someone from posting by making fun of them serves no purpose at all. There's plenty of us who want to read about other people's experiences.

We're pretty lucky in this day and age , to be able to meet and discuss something with people you have a common interest. Not too long ago you were pretty much on your own if you collected knives or any other specialty items.

I collect firearms too. I guess we're both double cursed. Back in the day hunters and clay shooters used to abuse the guys who liked the more tactical guns, they would remind guys not to call a gun a weapon, or blame the tactical guys for all the new gun laws. That is until they realized that the politicians were just looking to score political points and started to propose bans on sporting firearms , ammo , magazines etc. I wish I had a dollar for every time I was at the range and a hunter asked me "what do you need that for"
 
What if just by chance you ever have to use your knife to defend yourself or someone else? The cops will want to talk to you and see the weapon. First impressions are very important in a situation like this. What impression do you think you would convey if you carried this....

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=6/17617420327.jpg&s=f5

instead of something like this ???

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=6/17617431690.jpg&s=f5

And I can promise you that the bottom knife (BM Doug Ritter Griptilian) will do just as much damage as the other knife, but without looking like it was made in hell (if I believed in hell). You get the point.
 
Thanks for the pics BluesStringer. If it weren't for knifeknuts with digital cameras, I wouldn't know what half of these knives really look like.

I'm still mulling over buying one myself. It's just a bit flashy for my tastes right now.
 
Thanks for the pics and good review Bluestringer. In Sydney if you get caught with any knife you are in trouble, whether it is a swiss army knife or one of these. I quite like this knife. I think the advertising is a bit stupid but I realise it is a knife for a style of training that it is based on (Reality Based Systems). All my knifes are for my collection only though and will never be used for anything. I am planning on buying either one of these or the cold steel recon 1 tanto (2006). The only thing I dont like about this knife is that the handle seems a bit thick, but not thick enough to put me off buying it.
 
bladeprince said:
What if just by chance you ever have to use your knife to defend yourself or someone else? The cops will want to talk to you and see the weapon. First impressions are very important in a situation like this. What impression do you think you would convey if you carried this....

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=6/17617420327.jpg&s=f5

instead of something like this ???

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=6/17617431690.jpg&s=f5

And I can promise you that the bottom knife (BM Doug Ritter Griptilian) will do just as much damage as the other knife, but without looking like it was made in hell (if I believed in hell). You get the point.
Click to expand...
Are you thick bladeprince? You asked the exact same question above, I answered that what some hypothetical, non-existant cop thinks is not on my radar screen whatsoever, and now you have to ask the same question again? The only point I get is that you expect your hypothetical scenario to inspire some epihany in me that moves me to get rid of the knife post-haste, and come back here asking you Good People (you know, the ones who only own knives that look like they were made in Heaven), who obviously have a lock on what constitutes Good Knives, for forgiveness for having the unmitigated gall to contribute to Good Knife-Owners' everywhere dismal reputation! Get over yourself already! I LIKE the knife, I PAYED MY OWN MONEY for the knife, and nothing you say, no matter how many times you insipidly repeat it, is going to change my mind!

I don't know how many times I have to say it, and I don't understand why I have had to say it at all since the 2nd sentence in my very first post made it clear that I had/have no intention of using this knife as a weapon, but...ummm....I have no intention of ever using this, or any other knife, AS A WEAPON!!! Is that clear bladeprince? No cop is ever going to be demanding to see the knife I just used in defense of myself or someone else, because, like I said right off the bat, I am definitely not a knife-fighter, and as such, I'm not playing whatever stupid game you're asking me to play by fantasizing about what cops think of me in a scenario I will never find myself in. Got it?

Jeesh, can't you at least be original with your questions?

[/rant]

Thanks to those of you who just offered your impressions of the knife, positive or negative, but without including meaningless BS.

Especially thanks to those of you who noticed and/or complimented the quality of the pictures. I've been workin' on gettin' better. Now the secret is out! I definitely HAVEN'T been workin' on making my back deck look any better! HA! Man, those rusty nails look like THEY'D make some good weapons! Hmmmm.......:D

Blues
 
Bluestringer; thanks for the excellent pictures. Pictures like that make half the threads on this forum actually worthwhile to read. I think the knife looks pretty neat myself, in the boring world of production knives different is always better.

Please ignore any flak you are being hit with right now. The majority of bladeforumers like their knives to look good cutting cardboard at the office just like the candlepowerforumers like their lights to look pretty on white walls after the wife is alseep. If you try to defend yourself form all the worthless bull on this forum you will no doubt be burned out in short order so please ignore as much as you can.

There ain't nothing wrong with buying a knife you have no need for based solely on looks. I almost owned half of CRKT's line because I liked their looks.
 
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