boker reality based folder any good?

Jeez you just cant get a break bluestinger.:o

It was your money to spend as you see fit, and why people have a problemm with that is insane. I personally think its insane to spend over 200$ on a knife but people do it all the time. That is their choice and no one elses.

I wouldn't consider myself a mall ninja but i like the looks of the "tactical" knives. (gasp). For me however i don't like knives like slipjoints, but some people here love them.

If you ever have to use a knife in any self defense situation you will go through trouble no matter what the knife is.
 
BluesStringer said:
Are you thick bladeprince? You asked the exact same question above, I answered that what some hypothetical, non-existant cop thinks is and blah, blah, blah.
Blues


I missed what you wrote, big deal. You could have just ignored my response instead of giving yourself an ulcer over it. Sure got you excited.

I don't give a rat's ass what you do or what you think. And for sure not enough the get angry over it. Good thing you don't intend to carry it. I get the feeling you might use it on someone during one or your rants.

Respond again, if you wish, but nothing you say will get it one bit upset. I won't read it anyway.
 
Thanks RedEdge77. For me, I'd LOVE to be able to afford knives way over $200 bucks. I like 'em all for collecting. When it gets right down to it, the only one I really NEED is the little 2" Schrade LB3 I've been carrying nearly every day now for 20 years, but I own a helluva lot more than that. All the rest are no less self-indulgent than bladeprince's or Rat's or Timberwolf's or kel_aa's collections, their holier-than-thou knife-snobbery notwithstanding.

Anyhow, thanks for the support. I must say, I still don't know what I said or why my pictures should require support from anyone, but thanks for lending yours!

Blues
 
Interesting design, but not my style.
I don't see how this knife is any more suitable for defensive purposes than numerous other folders on the market. How exactly is this knife more "realistic" than other SD folders on the market?
 
BluesStringer, thanks for the pics and the review.
Don't let the idiots who make personal attacks get to you--they do NOT reflect the majority of the folks here on Bladeforums.

As for the knife....
Well, it looks well made, but it really is not my style.
 
BluesStringer said:
Well that's weird. I could've sworn I clicked on the "Knife Reviews and Testing" forum, but the vast majority of replies other than mine take personal digs at people who like the knife rather than commenting on the knife itself at all. "Mall ninja?" What does that even mean? What knife might one admit to owning to be safe from such juvenile insults being hurled at them? Jeesh, you'd think, with the humongous variety of knives available to enjoy looking at pictures of, if you don't like the one being discussed and pictured in this thread that you'd just move on to one where you will get some enjoyment, instead of spewing your self-perceived knife-snobbery. While trying to make me look bad for owning, and more importantly, enjoying owning, the subject-knife, you simply accomplished making yourselves look petty and small-minded. What fun. We'll have to get together and do this again sometime, eh? :jerkit:

Blues


Hay Blues,

More power to you man:thumbup: . You like what you like...end of story. I'm ready do get dissed too when I tell you that I think the asthetics on that knife are rockin! I just might get one...how bout that? And...and I do like the plain edge as opposed to the combo edge on this model...just for art sake. I think you have a decerning eye for form and I'll bet that has a lot to do with your decision to perchase. In other words, you might see a knife made from S30V with G10 scales, bla, bla, bla that lots of people say is great, and if it does not appeal to you visually, you wouldn't get it. Well... me either. God forbid we don't follow like lemmings to the slaughter. You're your own man:thumbup: . As far as the self righteous, bull-shit response you recieved.....:jerkit:
 
BluesStringer said:
All the rest are no less self-indulgent than bladeprince's or Rat's or Timberwolf's or kel_aa's collections, their holier-than-thou knife-snobbery notwithstanding.

Are you talking about me? :jerkit:

Unbunch your panties and stop whining already.
I gave my opinion on what is a silly looking knife- really one of the ugliest knives I have ever seen.
So other people don't like the knife you do, must be the end times.:rolleyes:
Don't take it personally. Everyone's opinions vary.
 
BluesStringer said:
their holier-than-thou knife-snobbery

You complained that people were giving you flak based the looks of the knife. I pointed out an issue that was based on the functionality of the knife. You never once addressed the issue as why there is a vertical grove in the the blade or why that doesn't act as a stress riser rending your thick blade inconsequential and ineffective. If you think someone pointing that out is being a snob, I'm sorry that you can't deal with the cruelity of a world based on facts, but that doesn't change that there is an obvious design flaw on the knife.
 
BluesStringer said:
Yeah, eventually I'll use it for something I suppose, and when I do, I'll let y'all know my impressions.

Other than that, I got to thinking about the "weapon" aspect of this knife. Why is Boker's advertising any less negative than Dalton's "Assassin" OTF autos? When you hear the word "stiletto," does it conjure up visions of a utilitarian knife to you? Do "Combat Elite's" folders appear to you to be intended for digging trenches or poking 6" - 8" in the dirt for mines? If not, what do you suppose the word "Combat" refers to? What reason on Earth is there to carry a boot knife if not for a backup weapon? (I'm talking civilian use here, not military. I could better understand the latter.) How about bali-songs? Like the Bradley "Mayhem?" Did Mr. Bradley call it that so his customers could cause mayhem on loose threads and trimming calouses, or maybe breaking down boxes? The Microtech line of "HALO" knives is based solely on a game where the player is an assassin fer cryin' out loud! The name "Pirahna" doesn't exactly inspire thoughts of utilitarian usage for their knives. Wilson Tactical (formerly Combat Elite) makes a myriad of variously-configured "fighters," as does almost every other highly-thought-of, high-end manufacturer. Hell, most all of those examples create visions of knife-wielding maniacs bent on murder moreso than the title "Reality Based Blade."

You know as well as I that I could go on all night finding advertising and marketing which portrays knives as weapons every bit as much as the one being discussed here. Interesting though, that in all of my surfing through here and other knife-related forums, only this one and Dark Ops has threads devoted entirely to knockin' 'em for exactly that, not to mention tearin' down those who just buy 'em because they like the looks of 'em. Not that I feel you've done that USAFSP, but it's certainly been a prevelent theme in this thread.


I'd venture to say that, in the history of mankind, they've been weapons in most people's minds ions more time than they've been thought of as "tools." I'd further surmise that the shift in view didn't even get a strong foothold until well after the advent of the handgun. As Charles Barkley would say, "I could be wrong, but I doubt it." Not trying to be a smart-ass, I'm actually enjoying this discussion with you USAFSP, I just happen to think that a majority of objective observers would not agree with your above statement, although, in every-day-life terms, I see it exactly the same way you do. I just don't think the ummm....*reality* that knives can be and are weapons is mutually-exclusive to the premise that they're tools as well.


Actually, according to the advertising you're complaining about so vociferously, you've got it exactly backwards.


Listen, I'm not trying to get you or anyone else to *like* this knife. I really couldn't care less. I just don't understand the intensity with which it is being criticized, or the glaring inconsistencies between those criticizms of this knife as compared to others which are marketed in much the same way.

Bottom line, and as you have so graciously acquiesced, to each his own.

Have A Good'un,

Blues


Hay Blues,

As you know from my previous post, I really like the looks of that knife. Unless you are using it to pry up manhole covers, I think it will perform great for slicing, general cutting and punching. You wouldn't want to use it as a camp knife or utility blade. There are other designs better suited for those functions as I'm sure you know. I'd have no problem using it for daily carry.

Guitars is it? I play drums in a local blues trio here in El Lay :cool: .
 
kel_aa said:
You complained that people were giving you flak based the looks of the knife. I pointed out an issue that was based on the functionality of the knife. You never once addressed the issue as why there is a vertical grove in the the blade or why that doesn't act as a stress riser rending your thick blade inconsequential and ineffective. If you think someone pointing that out is being a snob, I'm sorry that you can't deal with the cruelity of a world based on facts, but that doesn't change that there is an obvious design flaw on the knife.
Forgive me please, but I guess I don't understand the term "stress riser." In this post it seems to be a kind of mechanical term, but in your first post using that term, I honestly thought you were furthering the theme that the looks of the knife would cause stress to rise in a cop's mind. That's what I recall being mostly discussed at the time. As such, I thought your post was referring to looks, not functionality, so there ya go. Now that that's cleared up......

The blood groove is a design flaw? I just thought it was a design feature, based on some knowledge that Wagner has that I don't have. I understand your point now though, and agree to a slight degree that the vertical groove technically weakens the blade at that spot. I only say "technically" because, for my purposes, I seriously doubt that I'll ever find out just how weak or strong it is. I can't envision a scenario where I'm prying with this blade, and as long as it will shatter a car window and cut through seat-belt material, it suits my purposes. Bottom line, if the groove is indeed a design flaw, then you'll need to point that out to Mr. Wagner, not me, as the alleged flaw you're pointing out is not one which would affect the usefullness of the knife for me, or more to the point, adversely affect the aesthetics for me since that was the main consideration in my purchasing it.

Now, how the thumb-disc or thumb-guard poses a mechanical flaw, I have no idea. This certainly isn't the only knife with either of those features, or with both of them on the same knife for that matter. But then again, I'm still not sure I'm understanding your terminology correctly. Whose stress is rising when considering those features? The knife's? Mine? Yours? A cop's? I'm serious, I don't know what you mean.

I think I do know what you meant by "Boker Patented Snap-Off" though, and I still think you were referring more to the looks than the functionality, a belief reinforced by your first post with a pic of a snap-off utility knife. Since you can't seriously believe that the groove is so deep as to make the blade analagous to the utility knife, I figured you were just jumpin' on the band-wagon to knock what you perceive the unpleasant looks of the knife to be. I simply let my previous and subsequent answers stand on that score without directly replying to you, but surely now you can see that I did reply. In case you missed it though, I don't care what cops or anyone else thinks about the looks of the knife. I liked it, I bought it and I snapped a couple of pics and posted 'em here. That is all OK with you, isn't it?

Blues
 
A stress riser is point or area on an object that concentrates stress. For instance glass cutters score plate glass to break them where they want. Now the depth that they actually cut is very very shallow compared to the thickness of the glass. Now when you put some pressure on the the two sides, it miraculously breaks in two. Let's say the plate is 4 mm thick and the depth of the score is 0.1 mm. Now try to break an unscored plate 3.9 mm thick, it resists breaking much much more. Why is this when the apparent thickness of the materials are the same? Because the scratch acts as an stress riser and concentrates stress locally, until the stress exceeds a critical limit and a fracture propagates near the speed of sound through the material.

A graph here: http://www.hghouston.com/Fracture_1.html

All non-uniform aspects of the material tends to act as stress risers, such as notches, angle changes, holes, voids in the material... The Spyderco hole is an stress riser. Cliff's UK Penknife cracked through the hole when too much lateral force was applied. There was an picture weeks ago of an BM Grip that broke through the hole drilled for the thumbstud. Cold Steel SRK's due to sharp tang/blade transitions often break there. Round un-uniformities have the least problem. Thus you would rather have a round hole than a square hole. As a circle gets flatter and flatter approaching a line (crack), is the worst stress riser.

Read how the Gerber Trident broke, post 22:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344783

The serrations are stress risers. The drastic change in blade profile is a stress riser. If it's an feature, it is an trade-off between practical strength and usefulness. However, I cannot see any usefulness from a vertical grove on Boker knife (I don't mind the grooves along the length of the blade as much as the vertical one). When it is stacked in-line with a thumb-disk, which I assume has a screw set in a hole drilled in from the top, it is absolutely screaming a line of breakage*. They might as well make the rest of the knife thinner, because the extra blade thickness does nothing when it is compromised by the the problem area created by the vertical groove stacked with the thumb-disk. It's like wearing bullet-proof boots and not a helmet and an flak jacket in a war zone. Yes, bullet-proof boots offer you protection (as does the extra thickness offer strength), but your thorax and head are the most vulnerable parts (the indicated area is the knife's unarmored head and chest).

I do not believe it (the ease of breaking) is as serious as an utility knife. For you the practical strength might not be a problem. But the question remains why, why take the risk, why compromise strength for something that has no use (I honestly think it's there for looks, to join the two "blood grooves")? Consider how knife is promoted to be used. Is it to be a great looking knife with some strength or a strong knife with decent "coolness"?

I never mentioned looks or legality. I agree you don't have to defend those aspects to other forum members. But as this is Testing and Review and not the Gallery, the functionality of the knife will be discussed.

By the way, the pictures are very nice. This was free-hand? Manual setting or automatic?

*I think the least problematic way is to bond the thumbdisk on there, but even then you have a "cutout" to accommodate the disk and you better make sure the corners of the cutout are as round as you can make it.
 
Blues.....this has been goin on all God damn day. Let's grab a bass player and crank out some Howlin Wolf or Guitar Shorty.......ya down for that?

Alright....I'm goin ta bed:yawn: . Probably gonna have nightmares. See ya:cool:
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
Almost as goofy looking as Dork Ops. . . :barf: in some ways worse (than the ones DO stole from ER at least)
This knife is the first knife I've ever disliked completely, yikes what a bad job they did there.
 
thanks guys for answering my inquiry.i used to own hammerhead knives so ive seen my share of good and bad.given the quality of instruction on wagners dvds(his clearing the shoot house intro is laughable).i should have expected it was a gimmick.well iguess ill just continue to carry and train with my crkt kasper/polkowski combo.
 
OK kel_aa, I understand your criticizms much better now. I am still a bit perplexed as to why serrations, thumb discs, drilled holes etc. add up to a basically non-functional knife in this case, while I rarely, if ever, see the same critique applied to most other knives. That's not intended to challenge what you're saying, or to imply that you haven't made similar criticizms for other knives, just that I don't recall seeing it. Anyway, thanks for the clarification, and sorry for any misunderstanding.

Raven, sorry I missed ya tonight. I'm more of a T-Bone Walker/Blind Willie McTell/Muddy Waters/Taj Mahal kinda guy myself, but hey, it's all good. Yeah, I'm always down for some jammin'. I grew up in Redondo Beach so I know how that rat-race out there can teach ya about the blues in a hurry! Left 15 years ago and never looked back. Now I live in the thick of it somewhere between Fame Studios in Muscle Shoals, Sun Records in Memphis and the old Capricorn studios in Macon, GA. C'mon down an' set a' spell! We're real swingers out here. Sit on the porch swing all day long pickin' 'n grinnin'! HA!

Have A Good'un,

Blues
 
BluesStringer said:
OK kel_aa, I understand your criticizms much better now. I am still a bit perplexed as to why serrations, thumb discs, drilled holes etc. add up to a basically non-functional knife in this case, while I rarely, if ever, see the same critique applied to most other knives. That's not intended to challenge what you're saying, or to imply that you haven't made similar criticizms for other knives, just that I don't recall seeing it. Anyway, thanks for the clarification, and sorry for any misunderstanding.

Raven, sorry I missed ya tonight. I'm more of a T-Bone Walker/Blind Willie McTell/Muddy Waters/Taj Mahal kinda guy myself, but hey, it's all good. Yeah, I'm always down for some jammin'. I grew up in Redondo Beach so I know how that rat-race out there can teach ya about the blues in a hurry! Left 15 years ago and never looked back. Now I live in the thick of it somewhere between Fame Studios in Muscle Shoals, Sun Records in Memphis and the old Capricorn studios in Macon, GA. C'mon down an' set a' spell! We're real swingers out here. Sit on the porch swing all day long pickin' 'n grinnin'! HA!

Have A Good'un,

Blues


Blues......check out the thread I started in the Reviews on the Blackhawk Crucible Combo Edge Folder. I went out on a limb and ordered one before I started the thread after reading an article on it in the current issue of Tactical Knives. I just received it on Tuesday. 3.25" ATS34 spear point blade, textured G10 slabs, great ergos...feels amazing in the hand and it has an awesome shape. I'd pretty much bet my kick peddle that you would really like this piece. Check it out and get back to me :cool:
 
Raven, I had read that thread a couple weeks ago when you first posted it. First I heard of the Crucible and your raving review(s) inspired me to go looking for it. I've got it on my "wish-list" (a folder full of short-cuts for my wife to peruse at her convenience), and hopefully I'll have one here by our 20th Anniversary on the 30th of this month. :D Either way, it's at the top of my aquisition list.

I'm a big fan of "tactical" folders myself. Then again, I'm a big fan of most styles and designs as long as they're well made. Most of 'em have something to offer even if their intended purpose is something I don't need or have little use for. Most of my knives fall into that category. I collect 'em because I like lookin' at 'em and handlin' 'em. I've got three blades stashed in my "bug-out-bag" that I may *need* someday, but other than that, I mostly just admire the lines and the craftsmanship and they just sit there lookin' purty. I keep one in my car and sometimes carry one of the full-sized ones, but usually the only one I have on my person is the little lockback Schrade I mentioned earlier in the thread.

Anyhow, see ya 'round the forum, and thanks for the conversation.

Blues
 
BluesStringer said:
I am still a bit perplexed as to why serrations, thumb discs, drilled holes etc. add up to a basically non-functional knife in this case, while I rarely, if ever, see the same critique applied to most other knives. That's not intended to challenge what you're saying, or to imply that you haven't made similar criticizms for other knives, just that I don't recall seeing it. Anyway, thanks for the clarification, and sorry for any misunderstanding.

It is not only that it has a vertical groove and and a thumbdisk, but it has them in the same area, in a way that forms a natural line of breakage. I made the comment: "if it's an feature, it is an trade-off between practical strength and usefulness."

Yes, there are plenty of knives with thumbstuds/disks/holes and serrations, take a combination edge Manix for instance, which also have the blade thickness change run through the hole. I would indeed call it a weaker area. However, the blade at no point gets thicker as you move toward the tip (as opposed to the Boker). It is up to you how useful you find a Spyder-hole, if enough to compensate. And it is up to you how useful you find the vertical groove on the Boker, if enough to compensate. I cannot imagine any usefulness coming from a vertical groove.

Anothing thing to consider is that, the Manix nor the Boker may break through those weak points, as another aspect may lead to failure.
 
Interesting looking knife. Pretty specialized, I would think. I imagine you could really mess somebody up with one of those.

Enjoy it!
 
How can anyone support this thing? It is a dissaster in design. They just threw every supposed "tactical" feature into it without knowing what they were doing, look at that blade confinguration. It is terrible.
 
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