Boo to Tactical Knives

Originally posted by Spark
So who's ready to boycott Strider for knocking of Ek's cordwrapped handles (or anyone else who ever cordwrapped a knife)?

Wait wait wait hold on one frigging second........

Cord wrapping a knife is one thing, but making an exact frigging cheap copy down to the last detail of someone elses work is a whole different story.


What if I went and created www.bladeforums.org and made it look exactly like this place??? What if I paid to advertise on Tactical Knives for bladeforums.org. What if the Tactical Knives gave a good review of bladeforums.org???
 
That's what lawyers are for. It'd be my responsability to take action to protect our copyrights & trademarks. ETC ETC ETC.
 
Originally posted by NIB
Wait wait wait hold on one frigging second........

Cord wrapping a knife is one thing, but making an exact frigging cheap copy down to the last detail of someone elses work is a whole different story.


What if I went and created www.bladeforums.org and made it look exactly like this place??? What if I paid to advertise on Tactical Knives for bladeforums.org. What if the Tactical Knives gave a good review of bladeforums.org???

Dam boy, you got a good idea, I'll go in with you in half interest. I'll be the pseudo owner and I'll even do a takeoff on Sparks name and call myself SFART....:eek:
 
Wow.

Interesting thread.

Have posted this in the past but happy to do again for da record.

Fighting Knives was discontinued - not sold - to raise revenue for LFP and so the publisher could divert additional investment monies to more lucrative titles. A number of other LFP titles were likewise discontinued or actually sold for this reason at roughly the same time.

BLADE magazine only purchased the subscription list. They did not buy the title. They implied otherwise and went so far as to offer they were going to cover combat/fighting knives in the manner FK had for the purpose of retaining FK readers. What they actually did was buy the sub list and then start sending Blade Magazine to FK's subscribers. Blade never could, and never did, cover tactical bladeware any differently than they had in the past...or have since.

Tactical Knives was never anything more than one magazine publisher seeing a market where he could make some $$ and choosing to clone a title to take advantage of that market. The thread is interesting because it calls into question TK's journalistic promotion(s) of knife makers and companies that offer up cheap replicas and imitations of original Work. In fact, TK is itself a cheap replica / imitation of Fighting Knives Magazine and always has been. Is there any wonder its editorial and advertising mix is one in the same?

Steve Dick is editor because the publisher needed a front man in the cutlery world and Steve fit their corporate profile as editor material. IMHO it's really pointless to beat Steve up. As its editor his job is to front the magazine, period. Compared to FK, Blade, Knives Illustrated, and Knife World (for example) Dick has no editorial throw weight as far as the content and voice of the magazine goes. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. He can recommend, suggest, enlist some close pals to write for the title, but in the end its the ad people who drive the voice of the magazine and ad money that counts.

LFP printed far fewer copies per issue of FK than TK/Blade/KI but our advertising revenue was more than impressive. Advertisers consistently told our ad gal, Mary Card, that they sold more product per ad or story in FK than the same ad or "story" in the other rags. Why? We offered straight talk on bladeware and presented cutlery in a manner that no one else in the cutlery publications industry had ever dared or considered. We found and went to makers the other publications didn't care about, didn't like, didn't know about, or were purposely keeping out of the public view for petty little industry and "good ole boy" agendas. Our contributors were for the most part goers and doers whereas the other titles' contributors were industry groupies of whom the industry thought very little of.

And we had fun:D

Steve Dick wrote for FK, as did many of his in-house stable of contributors to include Mike Janich, Jim Keating, Ralph Moroz, and a host of others. FK gave the unknown free lancer a forum to present his or her work in and more than a fair number of these have gone on to write great books, do great videos, become noted blade designers and instructors, and so on. Likewise many "unknown" and eager knife makers got their first break in FK. Ken Onion, Jerry Fisk, Alan Elishewitz, and Kit Carson are just a few who FK covered to enormous degree and from who the "other" magazines learned about these today industry giants.

TK is simply a money machine whose topic is cutlery. Steve Dick is simply its front man. I imagine he doesn't respond because there's nothing to say. If the ad people say "run it" he will and does. And those who write regularly for him, and whose own projects or employers have advertising interests in TK, will likewise do as Steve tells them if they want to maintain their positions on the masthead.

Dick will probably only leave TK if Harris tells him he has to move to New York. Until then he's content and will absorb the barbs and arrows as it's a good living, a good paycheck, and it's more fun than free-lancing articles was.

In the end magazine editors are a dime a dozen. Take it from one who knows:) Bud Lang went bye-bye; and Bruce Voyles sold out (nothing new there, eh BV?). FK was on the stands for roughly seven years and we fought to stay there each and every day. We had fun, we put good knives into the hands of good people, we told it like it was, and we took the less than honorable in the industry to task whenever we found them and whoever they were. We never lacked for advertising and our advertisers never lacked for sales.

I don't read TK or any of the other knife rags. I sometimes pick one up and leaf through it but they are all the same. Big flashy catalogs. The writers are all the same, too. Pleasers. Yuk:barf:

Anyhow, that's my two bits. If I had any advice to offer it would be not to take the knife rags too seriously. They aren't about knives. They are about knife $$. Every once in awhile you will find someone or something neat, and that's kool. Every once in awhile you'll learn something you didn't know. And that's kool. If a title gives you a lift, or makes you smile, or just occupies you after a tough day at work, that's kool.

Otherwise it's just pulp and print and pictures meant to make $$ for its publisher.

GW

;)
 
Greg, that's about the most honest assessment of the knife magazine industry I have ever read. You said a lot of things I didn't want to say but hinted at (and that's just from meager and short career as a writer for TK). In short, thanks for telling it like it is.

Jeff
 
Thanks Greg. I remember what Blade had said when they implied they bought the title and would cover the same material.

I hope he doesnt mind me saying so but my friend Kit Carson has said to me more than once that he benefited greatly from the exposure he received from FK back when no one else was covering tactical/fighting knives.
 
Originally posted by Spark
So how many of you are ready to boycott Blade as well? How many of you are ready to boycott Wal-Mart & Sam's Club for carrying knockoffs?

Heck, how many of you are willing to stop using Pay-Pal for trying to take away our Second Amendment rights?


I know this is late, but I don't shop at Walmart co. for any reason-they are destroying the economic fabric of this country. I don't use paypal just for that issue.

--Joe
 
Very refreshing Greg. Thanks.

As you said Spark, you have to pick your battles. If we were to fight every battle that presented itself to us on a daily basis, we wouldn't be doing anything else. So, I pick my battle and fight it my way. I don't buy Blade and now I don't buy TK. Does that give them any reason to be concerned? Nope. It makes me feel just a bit better about the issue and I have decided that's all the energy I am going to put into this battle. Do I expect it to solve the problem. Nope. But I am no longer directly contributing to the companies that condone blatant ripoffs.

By the way, IF, everyone stopped buying TK, there would be no advertising dollars.Cause no one would see the adds. Many insurmountable obstacles have been overcome by little things like that happening.
 
...if a cutlery magazine doesn't point out that the knife being covered is a knock-off, a clone, a blatant exploitation of another man or woman's work without license or permission or knowledge or authorization -

and that magazine offers a favorable review to any degree -

then that magazine is thumbing its nose at the man or woman who did the original work and all that goes into doing original work.

and encouraging yet more ripoffs, more exploitation, more non-accountability, and so on.

at fk if we covered a knock-off or clone knife we said it was and gave some history as to how it came about, or appeared to come about. we gave the original work's creator and some background as to how the original source viewed the clone product.

and we compared performance between the original and the knock-off / rip-off / clone.

fair is fair.

if the knife was a bootleg nightmare we nailed it to the wall sans pity:D if the maker was not paying the original designer an agreed upon royalty we brought that up (ask pat crawford about this on his behalf many, many years ago and a certain creative soul who finally squared pat away after we jumped in with both feet). we didn't see many fly-by-nighters after awhile...and we didn't need or want their advertising.

this is one reason why fk still invokes positive commentary on forums like this one.

and the main reason the truly great designers, makers, and manufacturers remember us and take care of us every now and then:)

and we never sold our covers. we gave them away. and we had the very best photographers in the business do the shots.

'nuff said.
 
Thanks Greg, I really enjoyed your honest and insightful look into the innards of the knife rags. Now I want to go out and get all the copies of Fighting Knives that I don't already have. It is a downright shame that there isn't a magazine like that around today.

It was Fighting Knives that turned me on to a bladesmith by the name of John Smith. To this day I have never seen an article on him in another magazine.

What you say about not taking the magazines seriously makes sense. Unfortunately, many of the people that read these magazines accept what they write as gospel. It is these people, and there are lots of them, that are heavily influenced by what they read in the pages of their most revered magazine. It is a real shame that these people don't have a magazine like Fighting Knives to turn to.
 
Hey there Mr. Greg, and every one else…..

Odd salutation I know, but Mr. Greg is a personal hero of mine, and only a few of the reasons why have to do with knives.

Thanks to everyone here for taking the time to give this issue thought.

This problem can be considered in many ways.

Firstly, its pretty damn flattering to have someone that makes knives by the pound, copying our designs. All this means is that it’s a cool knife and they know people will buy it.

Is it bothersome as well? Clearly.

Is there anything we can do to Linton about it? Nope. Short of going over and killing them. But that’s a lot of killing, and really……it would be wrong. It’s a cultural thing, its not only okay, but good over there. What are ya gonna do? I don’t believe in female circumcision either, but its done, and you have to respect the beliefs of others…….as long as they don’t effect you.

There is the kicker…..as long as it doesn’t affect you.

Does it affect us? Yes, but only in the US. That’s what the law states anyway. They can make all the knives they want, but it is illegal for them to sell them here. Its copy right infringement. The problem is that WE are the only entity that polices this. WE have to be the ones that make sure they don’t come into the US.

SO……our goal is to affect the US distribution channels. This stuff is sold to US distributors by the pound. “I would like 2000 pounds of knockoffs please…..hold the special sauce….”

The only way to do ANY thing is to find the distributors, call the authorities, have them impound the product pending investigation…..if they have to sit on enough tonnage of knives….they will eventually go out of business, and one day people will get the word that it is not profitable to buy from Linton.

Feel how you want about TK.

As for us…..morality, though only a thin line drawn in the sand, is an important thing. TK has crossed our thin line, and we will no longer do business with them.

Thanks again for taking the time to think about this issue.

m
 
Linton may have already taken steps to avoid these problems. I am not sure of this, but it looks like their latest line doesn't include any Strider clones. Looking at the knives on the Linton site and on the sites of companies that sell Linton I don't see any of the Strider knockoffs listed anymore. Anyone else know if Linton has stopped making these knives, or are they just not available in North America any longer?

Moteng

Linton
 
Keith,

The Moteng site had a few clones. Two of the folders were copies of the Strider tanto nightmare grind and the bowies were Pabtastic. There could've been more, but I didn't want to find out.
 
DaveH,

No harm, no foul. :) Like I said, I knew that your statement was not meant to harm or degrade, and I also didn't want mine to sound like a flame.

Business culture? Yes -- but even then, it's limited to those who are disgustingly greedy.

True culture? Definitely not.

:)

Allen
aka DumboRAT
 
Guys,

I've been on the phone and online with some big names in the last couple of days about this issue. Everyone I have spoken with assures me that this is NOT Steven Dick's responsibility and that TK really had little or no choice in the matter because of the way the industry works.

On top of this, there are huge issues that need to be addressed with the US market before we can really begin to rally the heaviest hitters to this cause.

Don't think this means that I'm quitting this problem. On the contrary, it means that I'm digging in for a long fight. I am extremely passionate about this issue and, if I have to get Spyderco and Benchmade to kiss and make up then that's what I'll try to do.

In the meantime, spread the word about companies like Linton. Make sure people know which companies they can trust and which ones they cannot. If you see a knife that, to you, too closely resembles an existing knife by a reputable maker/company get whatever information you can and post it on the forums.

It would be great if we could come up with appropriate steps to take when a knockoff was identified (i.e. gather information, post on forums, contact manufacturer, contact distributors, etc.) but I don't know that I'm really smart enough to come up with that template. What I have learned in the last two or three days has shown me that I really didn't know a darned thing.

Feel free to drop me a note regarding this issue as I certainly love talking about it--even when I hear that I may be wrong. ;)
 
That is pure CRAP.

The responsible publication will (a) exercise journalistic freedom (b) can pick / choose who it covers (c) can pick / choose whose advertising it will run (d) will take a stand on issues that AFFECT the industry either for the better or for the worse.

If an article is run on a clone or knock-off the responsible editor / writer will ensure the storyline is fair, balanced, and will reflect (in some manner) acknowledgement that the product is a emulation / replica and if possible get the opinion of the original source (designer, maker, manufacturer).

For example, when BlackJack Knives was making their replica of the Randall #1, Fighting Knives did a piece on the knife. In that piece we contacted Gary Randall (Randall Knives) and asked for his professional assessment of both the BJ knock-off and of the concept of knocking off famous or popular designs in general. Gary, as always, had a way classy response and we ran it. The BJ effort was a good one, and in fact far better than other Randall #1 knock-offs. FK had done its homework and visited Western where the knife was being made at the time. Overall, the reader / potential buyer got a fair and balanced report that gave credit where credit was due, and allowed you to make an informed, educated purchasing decision based on how you felt about those aspects of the product we raised.

That's just one way of how a responsible publication can handle this issue.

Another is to take an editorial stand and make it an editorial policy not to cover knock-offs at all. State why in an editorial and leave it at that. Take a stand; make a point; lead the way (ranger); make the good guys proud to have their names and wares in your rag; do the hard right over the easy wrong.

No one is putting a loaded condom to any cutlery magazine editor's skull and telling him/her to "Publish this story on my crummy little cheapa** knock-off or I'll slime ya!:eek: "

Gimmie a break.

Wishy-Washy = White Bread, as my good friend Mick Strider would say.

And TK is white bread without the crust - "only S-L-O-W-E-R".

GW:D
 
Walker, you're making me homesick and nostalgic! Damn, I miss FK.
I miss reading about Al Mar, the man. I miss you throwing in a pic of BV at the end of an article about favorite people. I miss somebody telling the story straight-like King not getting credit in certain mags for making the Last of The Mohigan knives because the other guy gave the editor free knives.

Somebody give this man a magazine to run:D
 
Fighting Knives was a mag that I really loved...I still have most of them and even the original 2 or 3 premier issues...really great stuff.

I remember Greg Walker taking alot of guff for running photo sets of scantily clad women brandishing fantasy swords, etc...aesthetically pleasing (in a cheap amateur porn kinda way) but it had little to do with "fighting knives" :eek:

I do however recall some boycotting going on not only because of the aforemetioned content, but also when FK went over to Larry Flynt Publishing. Talk about someone to boycott. But of course we didnt have the net like this at the time to hang (without trial) Greg Walker like everyone here is doing to Steve Dick.

Now I am not going to stand here and dig my heels in over the 1st amendment, Larry Flynt, Christianity, etc etc....but I remember a deeply religious content as written by Greg Walker in alot of articles.....if anyone should have boycotted FK at the time it fell under the wing of LFP...it should have been Greg.

So I am not going to get excited over who "sells out to who" in all this. I didnt boycott or stop buying FK after it went to LFP...no big deal to me....I stopped when I starting seeing it look more like an art knife magazine than a "fighting knife" magazine.
 
I was looking at knifeart.com last night,and i had not read this thread. as i looked at every page I started noticing the similarity in knives, (customs and production) not only on that sight but on any sight. i`ve been a knifenut for only 3 months, have been home from work for 2 months with foot trouble so i`ve had a lot of time, knives have helped me to pass the time. i am amazed at the quality of knives being made, both production and custom. when i see a knock off, usually at the flea market or ebay etc., it is very obvious. i would be surprized if a quality knife maker has lost a single sale to people who buy knock- offs. the reasoning is that the people who buy knock offs could care less about quality and craftsmanship. they are in to nickel plating and a knife 2ft long for 5.00. the point is this: could any of the affore mentioned magazines survive from your contribution-whether it be advertising, subcription or otherwise. also controversy sells product-now referencing the point about knifeart and the similarity between knives: how many knifemakers and production knifemakers are going to make a carbon fiber scale,titanium bolster-s30v folding knife, that there is not 10% change in design in. quality is the difference and people who buy knock-offs could care less about quality, but let a knock-off make a knife with a little quality mixed in and sell for 1/3 the price and now its time for a hanging.i think that there are several knife makers(production and custom) that are selling knives for 300+ that should feel threatened, as it is hard for me to see sometimes(and i love quality and precision made anything). If it weren`t for a Vega who would appreciate a Mercedes, you got to have both. if the magazines that have been mentioned only dealt in high end knives that had not been copied how many issues would they have, also as a reminder of living in a free country, we get to hear from everybody-while i dont care to hear most, i am excercising that right now. now lets take that magazine and remove all the advertising and reviews of products that we dont like. whats left and would you be willing to fork over the money so that they can turn a profit-lets say 8.00- 10.00 an issue for a magazine 15-20 pages in length. i ve never bought one of these magazines because of this forum and other web sites on knives, otherwise i would have had to run out and purchase all written material on knives. now if you are a magazine owner are you pissed off at the sparks of the world who ARE taking money right out of your pocket by hosting this website. this is written as perspective more than opinion-although i agree with myself on most of what i`ve written
:D this has been a good source of reading this morning with a good cup of coffee, thanks to all:)
 
Interesting.

We ran a series from Tony Tocci as described and indeed took some flak for it. We also got some nice compliments.

Now the "mainstream" knife magazines happily accept full page color ads that feature pretty, scantily clad gals selling cutlery and cutlery related items (doesn't Boker run a kinda mondo-bondage ad every now and then?).

You kinda forgot to mention that in your post.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

And I do recall authoring an editorial in FK regarding being able to publish material from Christian knifemakers (and material from several other makers from other faiths) in a publication owned by Larry Flynt. There was, as I recall, a certain poetic irony in this which I, for one, appreciated.

I do not recall seeing similar articles or commentary in the other knife rags, either then or any time recently when I've leafed through them.

Notice you failed to mention that, as well.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

And we didn't need the web then to talk smack about me or anyone else in the industry. Knife shows, telephones, faxes, and coffee breaks were just as good and sometimes better:)

The only advantage to the web is now the private chatrooms can yak it up sans the subject of their gossip and belly-rubbing being aware, much less present.

And that's probably a blessing.

So...what was your point again???



GW:yawn:
 
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