Boo to Tactical Knives

Man I miss Fighting Knives too. I still have 2 issues, both with Jack Crain knives on the cover. It was because of those articles in FK that I became interested in custom knives. Because of the interest generated by reading those stories about Crain's work, I got to meet Jack in Louisiana in 1990 and shortly after I became the proud owner of my first custom knife. Now I own 4 Crain's and many other fine hand made knives. All thanks to that magazine "Fighting Knives".
 
Originally posted by Greg Walker
Interesting.


So...what was your point again???



GW:yawn:

My point? Don't sit back and throw rocks at Steve Dick and TK on matters of principle and money when your magazine was funded by one of the biggest dirtbags in American history.

Yep...you missed my point alright....I said that I really dont give a rip about a knife magazine using women to sell knives, etc etc...

If you want to be all self righteous about principle then watch where you throw those rocks..."either you is or you ain't"....all the rest is just, as you say, Wishy-Washy = White Bread
 
Consider the following -

One, you are a parttime knifemaker and therefore possibly an advertiser with TK. If so, your opinion is slanted toward your own self-interest as this thread is clearly critical of TK's editorial position on a specific subject (Which you don't address in your last two posts preferring to blur the discussion/debate with spurious attacks toward Fighting Knives magazine - out of publication for going on 9 years now - and its one-time publisher).

Two, you may be a personal friend of Steve Dick's. If #1 is accurate, or #2, or both then you should preface your posts with "I'm an advertiser with TK", or "I'm a personal friend of Steve Dick's", or both - this qualifies your opinion and lets the rest of us know how to best filter what you have to say.

Three, Fighting Knives magazine was an original Work of mine. TK is not an original Work of Steve Dick's. This thread is about original Work being ripped off or emulated without authority or professional consideration. If you, as a parttime knifemaker, designed - made - were successful with a blade and someone came along and began manufacturing it and selling it and making money from it without your sanction...and a magazine wrote a glowing evaluation or profile or review of that unauthorized product and its source...what would your view be? That's the theme of this thread.

Four, Steve Dick is a public figure. Being praised, or being hammered, comes with the territory.

Five, Turbo Publishing first published FK (and had published SWAT for years before I brought FK to them as a contributor to SWAT). They had to sell the title(s) and LFP bought them. Denny Hansen and I at both titles were grandfathered in by Turbo's ownership as part of the deal. SWAT maintained its status at LFP long past FK's, and only just in the past few years was successful in being sold to a Florida based publisher, which makes me quite happy for Denny.

Six, Steve Dick wrote for FK at my invitation while we were at Turbo, and then again until I cut him from the masthead / contributing ranks while the title was at LFP. If you are intent to paint me as somehow a bad guy due to the publisher, then you should paint Steve with the same brush as he never turned down an assignment or a paycheck.

Seven, please share with us all you believe you know about Harris Publications?

Eight, my opinions and observations are based on 24 years in the world and business of publishing, to include magazine publishing. Therefore my opinions / observations are from a professional in the field's experience where your's clearly are not when it comes to understanding editorial and advertising strategies, marketing, editorial position and duties, etc.

Nine, I have promoted Steve Dick as a writer in past magazines I've chaired; I recommended him to take the Soldier of Fortune "Battle Blades" column when I left SOF (which they offered - he did - and he had to abandon as Harris Publications didn't want him writing for a "competitor" if he was to be an editor for them); I have included glowing praise for Steve and his work in at least one of my Battle Blades books; and the list goes on. In short, professionally I've benefited Steve financially, professionally, and reserve the right to address subjects such as this with that qualification of our professional relationship as a matter of public record.

Ten, your last post is churlish. Address the issue despite what you may think of how others go about doing so. Every major knifemaker and firm associated with cutlery supported FK by advertising in it, or providing product for eval / review. They did so because the magazine was not "white bread" and because it made them $$. AND it stood up for them and their Work when others in the industry sought to profit from their original designs sans royalties/permission/authorization.

That was an editorial decision and position. It was supported by the publisher who stood a lot to lose $$ wise from my doing so. That's the point, pal. Steve Dick cannot make that editorial decision and therefore can't take the position. His publisher won't allow it - they do not want to lose one cent regardless of how the position may compromise, offend, and otherwise hurt a knifemaker or small company or large company, for that matter.

It's a shame for Steve because I personally feel he is not happy with being in this position...but he chooses to accept it.

GW
 
One, you are a parttime knifemaker and therefore possibly an advertiser with TK. If so, your opinion is slanted toward your own self-interest as this thread is clearly critical of TK's editorial position on a specific subject (Which you don't address in your last two posts preferring to blur the discussion/debate with spurious attacks toward Fighting Knives magazine - out of publication for going on 9 years now - and its one-time publisher).

Nope...never advertised with them. Got lucky with an article though because I did something novel. I made a COMBAT knife....and the fact that it was forged and geared towards soldiers needs (and wallets) made it of interest to TK, because it is EXACTLY what their title implies. Even TK is running out of material in this area I am sure. Bottom line...they came to me, not the other way around. Self promotion? Nope...because I really dont care if all my orders go away tomorrow...I just enjoy making them and take just a bit of pride that a few folks have the confidence in them to carry them in harm's way. Did I attack FK? I said that I loved the mag up to a point, but if you are going to point out flaws with TK and its editor....well, we all have flaws don't we?

Two, you may be a personal friend of Steve Dick's. If #1 is accurate, or #2, or both then you should preface your posts with "I'm an advertiser with TK", or "I'm a personal friend of Steve Dick's", or both - this qualifies your opinion and lets the rest of us know how to best filter what you have to say.

Again, nope....never met him...just a few conversations online here and there. I really enjoyed the articles he did with FK and that is why I was happy to see him as the editor of TK. One thing I can say is that before the article TK ran on my stuff was that Steve and the author wanted to make sure that I could deliver, both in product and performance...I'd like to call him friend, but not in any context where I can benefit from his position. The mag has been good to me and I have not spent one red cent their way....but hey, what do i know about this...I'm just a part-time maker?

Three, Fighting Knives magazine was an original Work of mine. TK is not an original Work of Steve Dick's. This thread is about original Work being ripped off or emulated without authority or professional consideration. If you, as a parttime knifemaker, designed - made - were successful with a blade and someone came along and began manufacturing it and selling it and making money from it without your sanction...and a magazine wrote a glowing evaluation or profile or review of that unauthorized product and its source...what would your view be? That's the theme of this thread.


If someone copied my design...well, BFD, unless they were stamping my name on it, let the suckers buy the knife. I have bought at least 2 different "sanctioned" knives and they were all CRAP. The maker's should have been ashamed to have their name attached to it. As I stated before in this thread, if you make a product that is relatively easy to copy sans quality material...and it is popular, then it will be copied for cheaper. I never said that TK should have run the article, just tried to point out that there were a few here getting their panties in a wad, calling for a boycott of a magazine who at the very least is pointed in the right direction.

Six, Steve Dick wrote for FK at my invitation while we were at Turbo, and then again until I cut him from the masthead / contributing ranks while the title was at LFP. If you are intent to paint me as somehow a bad guy due to the publisher, then you should paint Steve with the same brush as he never turned down an assignment or a paycheck.

Never had the intent to paint you as a bad guy...never intended to paint Steve as a saint. In fact, I always liked your FK stuff and I have your books. But if you wanna join the "TK sux...let's boycott" wagon....then you gotta watch where you're throwing the rocks.


Seven, please share with us all you believe you know about Harris Publications?

Ummm...they make magazines? Beyond that, dont know...don't care

That was an editorial decision and position. It was supported by the publisher who stood a lot to lose $$ wise from my doing so. That's the point, pal. Steve Dick cannot make that editorial decision and therefore can't take the position. His publisher won't allow it - they do not want to lose one cent regardless of how the position may compromise, offend, and otherwise hurt a knifemaker or small company or large company, for that matter.

Maybe so...I can't say either way and thanks for your vast experience in the publishing industry to set us all straight
 
Quite the conversation. I guess I could offer my 2 cents as well.

I would like to think that Seven Dick is a personal friend as well as a business associate. We first became aquainted when Steve added a Spyderco knife to a comparison article for Canoe magazine in about 1984. He was the first knife writer to notice Spyderco knives even though they'd been on the market for 3 years. I also know Shirley, Ginnie and Karen and I've met Mr. Harris.

Steven's interest and passion for the knife industry has been around a long time, as has Greg's (another that I would consider a personal friend).

They are knowledgable and strong in their beliefs and convictions about knives and the knife industry, even if they don't always agree, That's great. We need depth of thought and discussion....and controversy...'lest we get bored and not progress.

I do not know anything about the article or the copies, haven't read it yet....nor have I had a chance to speak to Steve.

I will say that I believe TK's staff always tries to do a good honest job of providing the market with a quality periodical. Generally speaking, they do a very good job.

The magazine must try to service a very wide range of tastes in knives from the knowledgable aficianado such as yourselves, the collector of custom, fantasy or production pieces to the armchair warrior.....all appreciating knives in their own way.

They have to please their advertisers, printers, accountants, writers, staff and especially their readers. They know this.

They are not perfect and they cannot please all of the people all of the time....but they sincerely try to. In a broad measurement, Tactical Knives has far more positives than what might be, to some a negative. The magazine is there for all of you that have interest in knives. Working out a solution with Steve is far better in the long run than a lynching party on the forums or at a show, IMO.

If knock-offs or copies are the issue, don't shoot the messenger. If the messenger is not perfect, try to nurture improvement. All win.

Also, try to keep your definitions clear. I seem to remember a small knife company in Colorado that invented a pocket cip for knives. 1981. It was not patentable. I guess one could argue that just about every knife company in the world "copied" that idea, some exactly. Does that make them all bad? Somewhere there may be a balance between "sharing IP for the world's improvement" and "rewarding the designers"......but I hardly think that is TK's job?

sal
 
IP issues aside and thats not to say they are a small issue, as a reader of Tactical Knives I find I can't believe them.
If you review a cheap knife such as the lowgrade Linton knives in the same glowing terms that you use to describe custom knives and high end production knives it can only hurt that magazines credibility with knowledgeable readers.

I have to read between the lines to see if they really mean something else....I did so with the Linton Knives article and I could find no hint that the reviewer felt they were anything less than the custom knives and expensive production knives they reviewed in the same issue.
For example Mercwerx knives which I have been trying to get an honest read from since their market introduction. The impression Im left with is they are as good as Linton Knives. Razor sharp and tough!

I think it would be valuable for everyone involved to have honest and critical reviews of knives in a magazine, not just ad copy with a signature.
One thing is clear, I won't get it from Tactical Knives.
I don't buy it, just look through it guiltily for the pretty pictures.
 
Mr. Covington, I am fairly confident that if you were a fulltime knifemaker, fed your family from the fruit of your labors, had spent MANY years creating a style of your own and range of truly novel designs, had achieved some measure of meaningful success because of those many years of hard work, you would feel quite different about those who directly for indirectly threaten your livelihood and the wellbeing of your family. As a knifemaker who does feed his family with his work, I find your sanctimonious attitude and cavalier indifference to the wellbeing of your fellow knifemakers to be completely out of character in what is generally a brotherhood of friendly, caring and mutually supportive craftsmen, including those whose designs you have copied.

This isn't a game or hobby to many of us. It's a business, and in this instance it is a business that is being threatened by thieves and counterfeiters who have no regard for the craft, no honor in their efforts, and no purpose but to keep their slave labor occupied and their coffers filled. They don't give a damn that their "tactical" knives are tactically useless, that in moments of dire need they may utterly fail, that those who buy these knives thinking they are the product of reputable knifemakers are being defrauded and cheated, that many of these products are in fact dangerous to use because of shoddy construction, and that those who support and condone these people are abetting a crime against all who visit these forums and who value the art, craft, science, and workmanship that should be implicit in a quality knife.

Virtually every major producer of high quality knives in this country is today being threatened by knockoffs. Unless it's brought under some control, we will simply cease to have American-made knives, and perhaps that doesn't bother you. That's your choice. But what we really don't need is to have that activity supported by a publication whose very existence is the result of the revenues they have derived from those who are being harmed by this activity. If a publication is willing to support those who threaten us, then we, both knifemakers and knife lovers, are certainly within our rights to withdraw our support from that publication. You make your bed and you sleep in it. You either wake up feeling rested and good about yourself, or you wake up infested with the vermin who've shared that bed with you. That's how it works. TK has made that choice.

Frankly I find your attitude towards Mr. Walker, whose long and remarkable record of service to both this country AND to this craft exceeds that of virtually all who will ever read this forum, to be disrespectful and offensive.
 
Originally posted by Jerry Hossom


Frankly I find your attitude towards Mr. Walker, whose long and remarkable record of service to both this country AND to this craft exceeds that of virtually all who will ever read this forum, to be disrespectful and offensive.

Wow...Jerry...sorry if I offended you or any other knifemaker here. My responses were to implications from Mr. Walker that I somehow have something to gain or a personal interest supporting TK...and the extrapolation from Strider that I actually support knockoff's. Not once did I try to knock the green hat off his head or his contribution to the knife industry.

Suggesting that I am disrespectful to Walker without consideration to his military service is yet another extrapolation. And an extreme one at that. What about Steve Dick's military record? Read this entire thread and see some real disrespect.

My entire point here is simply that I find it extreme to boycott one of the FEW periodicals that support the knifemaking craft...just for one article.....much less to hang its editor for it. Consider the extreme good that TK has done for the same mfg that it offended and weigh the two.

As far as my attitude toward knifemaking, well, you are incorrect, what I make I am dead serious about and the stuff works. Do I borrow design features, sometimes, but I have a great relationship with those whose ideas I have emulated into my own design. Again, sorry if I offended the craft, at least to you, but your perception is largely out of context. If you would like to talk about it further you can call or email me....and I think you'll find we are pointed in the same direction and that I am a pretty darn nice guy. I just decided to step up and defend a mag that I like and I fully expect a few sticks swung my way.
 
I go back and say the original posted response Greg Walker made on this is as close to be perfect as far as the way the magazine industry operates as any I have seen posted.

Again, I think everyone that wants to get in the knife business should be welcomed, regardless of who they are, and as long at they do it with ethics. Eventually the consumer will be the final judge of their longevity in this market.

If TK, Blade, KI, Soldier of Fortune...whoever...wants to run an article on a foreign company, cheap knife...whatever...then so be it, but I personally don't agree with them glorifying a direct knockoff, especially one from one of their advertisers who support their publication. To me that's a slap in the face. After this I'm just wondering who's next to get slapped.

On another note, I'm all for discussion of this. The last thing I want to see is ANY magazine run out of business, but where is the line going to be drawn. Sure, some of the larger manufacturers don't seem to mind that folks knock them off, but what about the little guy or start-up company trying to honestly make it in this business? Just my personal opinion, which probably doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things ;)
 
I do not believe that Steve Dick has very much if anything to do with what has happened here. He recently emailed me and from what he said in that email I gather that he thought the Linton knife that was reviewed was a pattern that had been used by dozens of companies over the years. This may well be the case. It is not the knife that was reviewed that is the problem as far as I am concerned. It is the fact that Linton made their name from directly ripping off the whole line of Strider knives and that without doing that they would not have the notoriety that they now have. It is my view that companies that so flagrantly steal should not be supported with glowing reviews in magazines that are read by so many.

Greg, I do not agree that TK should not be held accountable for their actions. I do not know if Steve Dick makes the final decisions about which articles will be included in TK or not, but as the editor he is the one that will take the flak. As the editor he is the asumme dto be the final decision maker as to which articles appear in his magazine. When an article such as the Linton review appears in TK they have to be able to take the criticism that could follow. Just because TK may overall be good for the industry does not mean that they should not be taken to task for their decisions.
 
Originally posted by Keith Montgomery

Greg, I do not agree that TK should not be held accountable for their actions,

Keith....I never said they shouldn't either. If someone doesn't like the content, email the editor, the publisher, etc. However, boycotting or beating the editor to death here is a bit extreme. With whether Strider wishes to pull their ads, that is totally up to them, and I totally see their point, however...consideration has to be paid as to what TK has done for them in the positive. The end decision is theirs alone.
 
If there is but one point I am content to provide ref: this thread it is this. The editor of a publication is responsible for its content, but only to the degree that he or she is extended this journalistic freedom by the publication's owner / publisher.

This is why I noted in my first post that beating up SDick for what appears in TK is pretty much for naught (guess some folks missed that). TK's editorial is - and always has been - driven by the advertising / marketing departments at Harris.

When TK was first considered by its publisher a number of knife makers and companies related to the cutlery industry were approached and asked what they would like to see in a new knife magazine, and one related to tactical / combat cutlery (in specific). This in lieu of the success of FK and follow on pubs, primarily one time specials, from folks like Guns & Ammo and Blade.

It is helpful to recall, or perhaps be made aware of for the first time, that although many in the cutlery industry have voiced their belief in there being a knife magazine that "told it like it was"...in reality that's a pretty tough pill to swallow when it becomes a reality.

FK did just that, to include engaging a nationally recognized metals firm to analyze and test the steel firms claimed they were making their knives from; putting knives into the hands of serious field evaluators who truly carried/used the product for what it was advertised to be capable of; conducting investigative journalism (the Randall King / Last of the Mohicans investigative piece is a very good example of this kind of cutlery journalism, as was the Bob Lum / Cold Steel "who came first" regarding the westernized tanto piece).

Historically FK published the first accurate series on the Vietnam SOG bowie and bolo aka Ben Baker, as well as the first and only interview on the VN Tomahawk with Peter LaGana. We were among the first ardent promoters of Spyderco knives and products, and the list goes on and on and on.

(To include an investigative piece on a start-up publication called Sporting Knives [as I recall] that was being ghost edited by Bud Lang, the former editor of Knives Illustrated - a competitor at the time. This while Bud was openly editing KI...sans that rag's publisher's knowledge about Bud/Sporting Knives. SDick played a significant role in FK's report - a report that shut Sporting Knives down much to Bud's unhappiness and discomfort).

The report kept the magazine side of the house honest but it was the kind of hard-hitting cutlery journalism the industry cringed at, and therefore felt more comfortable not seeing if at all possible.

In the end, as stated time and again, FK was meant to champion the end user or collector, not necessarily "the industry".

And because of this approach an impressive number of makers and firms benefited financially and reputation wise, as did those who made their purchasing decisions on the basis of what FK published. People trusted us and therefore supported those we covered and those who advertised. Pretty simple.

Certainly we made editorial corrections along the way (as is required in good journalism) and when we found out perhaps we'd been led down a dark trail...we went back and put some light on the subject.

With this in mind understand the industry as a whole was uncomfortable with this approach as literally anyone could find themselves having to suck up a negative eval, review, or have to fess up to perhaps liberal design "borrowing" and/or seeing a long held belief or record corrected.

It's easy to say you want a publication like this...but it's hard to live with one.

And I'm not throwing rocks - I didn't live in - nor did those who wrote for FK - a glass house. We had to overcome the ownership change from the very wonderful and decent Moore family to Larry Flynt, as did Denny Hansen at SWAT. We - and Denny - did so by doing the best magazine we could, and having a wonderful support staff to include the best ad gal in the business, Ms. Mary Card. The custom and production cutlery worlds soon dealt with FK on the basis of who WE were as opposed to who owned us. Having written for KI, BLADE TRADE, KNIFE WORLD, SOF, EAGLE (a Harris publication at the time), INTERNATIONAL COMBAT ARMS, GUNG-HO, and a host of other such magazines prior to starting up FK I was blessed to have a wide range of experience and exposure available to back me up where writing about bladeware, tactical bladeware, was the issue.

And I sought the best possible free lancers in the business to work the FK format and gave them journalistic freedom of expression they had never experienced with any of the other cutlery or cutlery related magazines. Steve Dick was one of these.

Now whether SDick likes Greg Walker or not is of never mind to GW. He certainly has never asked me to write for TK (yep, I've offered to), and he's never once said a kind word in any editorial or photo caption about Your Truly, or even given me or FK the due of proper and appropriate credit when doing stories on subjects and people we did years before and which were clearly used in research. Heck, to read TK's account of the KA-BAR Next Generation Fighting Knife when it came out you'd think it was the TK staff that helped design and field test that project...which is why I had to write a book through Paladin Press to set THAT record straight.

I am in agreement with Sal at Spyderco.

If anyone wants to help SDick gain perhaps a bit of say-so over future articles about rip-off knife companies and designers, they can sit down and either send or email SDick a note to this effect. It's not an issue of refusing advertising (unless the advertiser is known to be bad news at the billing department) to anyone. It is an issue of the publisher empowering the Editorial Department to either refuse to cover products it knows to be not in the best interest of the readership / industy at large.

Maybe SDick has this editorial authority already. I don't know. I'd like to think not. If he does and he's allowing editorial that ravages good and honest makers / designers original Work,and puts potential consumers at risk (as noted in an earlier post that they are by using inferior tactical / emergency / combat knives)...well, that would be a shame.

In any event I was pleased to send Steve a brief, handwritten note from Kuwait prior to the war. I'd read an issue of TK found at the mini PX on Camp Doha and offered some thoughts, and yes, even a few compliments in my note to Steve. Shared with him what I was seeing in the PX for knives (as I recall) and sent him one of the American flags we were having sewen on our uniform shoulders. I thought he might enjoy a note from overseas, and figured he'd appreciate the flag.

Pretty sure he got both although I never heard back from him.

So ya see, partner, I ain't such a bad guy after all:)

GW

PS: Sal - thanks for sending AG the FP Bowie. It is a sweet little bit of steel;)

G:eek: :eek:
 
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