Bought “NIB” knife w/ scratch on blade, seller says I am doing a 'switcheroo' on him

[hw1776]

Latest (uneventful) update - 12/28/2014:

After several more attempts at getting a response, he STILL has not given me a response after he requested photos of the knives from me. Again, the pictures that I sent him proves that there's no way I could have even attempted a "switcheroo" since my other Avo has a later lockup, and does not have the distinct scratch on the same location on the blade, while the scratch on the knife he sold me occurs in the same location on both his and my photos. Maybe he realizes this and has just decided to take my money and run.

I have informed him of this thread weeks ago, and he chose not to come to defend himself. All he has done so far was ask for advice on his Instagram page, where he was suggesting that I either have buyer's remorse, or am trying to scam him.

If anyone deals with him, my advice is to get high resolution pictures of every angle AND in different lighting conditions, rather than trust his word on an item's condition. Or better yet, just avoid dealing with him entirely. Dealing with this guy has been nothing but a hassle and waste of time, and it just pisses me off every time I see that mark on the blade of the knife.


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I hate that I have to write this, but since I cannot resolve the issue with the seller, plus the fact that I am suspected of trying to pull a switcheroo/scam, I have no choice but to write this post.

1. Almost two weeks ago, I bought “NIB” Southard Avo from member on forum.

2. Upon initial inspection, I found a scratch that on the middle of the blade on the lock side of knife. Scratch starts from near the middle of the blade and ends at the edge. Could very well have came like this from Southard, but I felt that something like this SHOULD have been noted even if it came that way from factory. Scratch is hard to see in bright lighting but easily noticeable in most angles and low to normal lighting.

3. Contacted seller, who claims there were no scratches other than “a small piece of lint under the pocket clip, a blade that wasn't quite centered, being slightly closer to the presentation side” (which also was not mentioned in the ad), and that the knife was sold in the exact condition as received from Southard. He re-sent two photos from the ad that does not show the scratch clearly (due to lighting and angle), but CAN be noticed when compared to my photos.

4. I told him I was OK with the lint, and the blade not being perfectly centered, but the scratch was hard to accept when I am paying a premium for the knife, and included my own photos that clearly show the scratch. I asked for a refund since I did not like the idea of paying over retail for a new knife with a scratched blade. In my pictures of the knife, I also have a second Avo in the background, which I bought direct from Brad Southard.

5. Seller then posts on Instagram accusing me of buyer’s remorse…”or something else – a switcheroo” since I own another Avo. I find it odd that he thinks I’m up to something just because I have two of the same knife, when HE HIMSELF had two Avos before he sold me this one. He then asks me to take pictures of both Avos next to each other to prove that I’m not trying to scam him.

6. I sent him 14 photos of both knives side by side to prove that his knife was the one with the scratched blade, and that his original photos show the same scratch line (though not as easily seen). I have waited almost a week and he is still unresponsive. At this point, I cannot trust that he will even give me my money back if I were to send him the knife, but I want to set the record straight - ESPECIALLY when I am accused of trying to pull a scam when I was sold a scratched knife in the first place.

Here are the photos. Please note: THE FIRST TWO PHOTOS BELONG TO THE SELLER. The third photo is a 100% crop of the seller’s original photo with brightness and contrast adjustments to better show the scratches. The subsequent photos are mine. The lockup comparison photos are to show that mine has a later lockup, and his with the earlier lockup has the scratch.

You guys be the judge.

 

[craytab]

How did you pay?

 

[Billco]

First judges report (totally unbiased)

As proof that I need to "get a life," I spent 30 minutes looking closely at yours and the sellers images of the knife/knifes. Often, images like these show up with artifacts that aren't really on the knife but simply dust, reflections, etc. Also, sometimes things that ARE really present do not show at all in the image due to lighting, angle of the camera, etc.

Having said this, I did find two marks that I believe to be consistent between one of the sellers images and your image of the knife that is scratched. I have attached a closeup of the spot that I think proves this. To me, this indicates that the knife that he sent you is in fact scratched and the knife you already owned is not. NO SWITH-A-ROO!

Now, while it is clear to me that the sellers knife now has a scratch, it doesn't appear that the scratch was on the knife, at least when the seller took the photos. Here, I'm guessing that the scratch showing in your images would have shown in his original image.

This is an inherent problem that exists when we buy an object such as this without actually seeing it first. We are stuck with this kind of situation.

No solution but, here are the possibilities

1. The knife was scratched and the seller knew it.
2. The knife was scratched and the seller didn't notice before sending it to you.
3. The knife was not scratched when sent; you scratched it and want to return it.
4. The knife was scratched by you but you don't know you did it yourself.
5. I guess it could also have been scratched in transit although that seem very unlikely.

Since there is no way you could BOTH know which of these is the case, how about some sort of discount to resolve the issue. Especially if you intend to carry the knife. In that case, it won't be long before you have other scratches just like this one.

None of my business, but just my 2 cents. Hope you can resolve this without too much angst. I know how frustrating these situations can be.

The images didn't come out so well, but they are identical and in the same exact position on the knife. One of these images is the sellers, and the other is the buyers image of the knife with the scratch. Again, this indicates that the knife purchased is now scratched and the buyer did not "switch" knives. IMHO

 

[asdf12345]

The seller should have disclosed the scratch especially on a knife listed as "NIB". While a knife may be technically NIB it may have small blemishes that must be disclosed before sale. Selling a knife with a blemish at a higher than average price while using an arbitrary "NIB" to describe its condition is not acceptable. Ask for a refund, or if you plan to keep the knife ask for a small partial refund in an amount that makes up the difference for what you estimate the knife to be worth with the blemish and how much you paid for the knife.

 

[JR88FAN]

That looks like either something that happened in the factory, or when the seller had it.....

I am not going to believe that the seller wouldn't have seen that.
I have no idea what you intend to do with this knife, if you're going to use it, it's really irrelevant. If not, then it' an issue, and I have no right to state what is superficial and what is not, we all have our own boundaries with that, and they need to be respected.

Regardless, it should have been disclosed, and it certainly can't be NIB and that's it....even if it was purchased that way.

 

[Gastonknife]

Assuming both the buyer and seller have good reps here; an amicable solution may be to send it back to Brad for a refinish...may be best for both involved? Perhaps seller pays for shipping to Brad and/or cost to fix (if any - he may do it for free)? Figured I would trow that out there. If it was there prior to shipping it should have been noted in description - although it is not a huge issue - it should have been mentioned. As always a refund is always a easy solution if agreed by both parties.

 

[BP Green]

This is a perfect example of why I'm getting to the point where I don't want to sell knives anymore. It's gut wrenching trying to describe a knife so that you don't get accused of being a shyster later. I am a user or lackadaisical collector. To me these things are tools not jewels. That "scratch" to me looks like a stone wash Mark but what do I know? I'm just some guy looking at pics on the net. Problem is that you never know how picky someone will be. Where do you stop describing every tiny Mark and marr?

Like I said, I getting to where I don't even want to sell anymore. If I do I think from now on I'll just describe everything as a user and no sales to collectors. My reputation and piece of mind is worth more than a few extra bucks. YMMV....

 

[dr_fosg8]

I am no expert, but, that looks like a byproduct of the stonewashing process and not necessarily a scratch from use.

 

[wolfmann601]

It is easy to sell a knife here, just be the kind of person who strongly believes in "no deal is final until both parties are happy". A three day inspection period is all it would take to make a transaction relatively painless. I do not spend the proceed of a sale until I am certain the buyer is happy. Open communication, integrity and credibility is all that is needed to make every deal a smooth one!!

 

[brandon]

I am no expert, but, that looks like a byproduct of the stonewashing process and not necessarily a scratch from use.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Quiet]

It is easy to sell a knife here, just be the kind of person who strongly believes in "no deal is final until both parties are happy". A three day inspection period is all it would take to make a transaction relatively painless. I do not spend the proceed of a sale until I am certain the buyer is happy. Open communication, integrity and credibility is all that is needed to make every deal a smooth one!!

What? No. Three days? Any issues should be apparent that same day. If I don't get a message the same day the knife arrives, I will assume that any damage is on the buyer, and sorry, you're not getting a refund at that point. Three days? That's a great period to have buyer's remorse set in. "Well if only I hadn't bought this knife from Quiet, I could get this OTHER knife. I know!!! I'll say I'm unhappy with the sale, and ask Quiet for a refund! Even better, he'll have to pay to have it shipped back! Tee-hee! I'll go ahead and post "I'll take it!" on this other knife now! Gosh I love Bladeforums!"

No.

 

[RevDevil]

This is a perfect example of why I'm getting to the point where I don't want to sell knives anymore. It's gut wrenching trying to describe a knife so that you don't get accused of being a shyster later. I am a user or lackadaisical collector. To me these things are tools not jewels. That "scratch" to me looks like a stone wash Mark but what do I know? I'm just some guy looking at pics on the net. Problem is that you never know how picky someone will be. Where do you stop describing every tiny Mark and marr?

Like I said, I getting to where I don't even want to sell anymore. If I do I think from now on I'll just describe everything as a user and no sales to collectors. My reputation and piece of mind is worth more than a few extra bucks. YMMV....

This a great post, and describes the reason I stopped selling knives. I will buy one once in a long while, but I am not even trying to go there anymore. That looks like a mark from the stonewashing process to me too.

 

[Karda]

To me it looks like a scratch.
Could it be an artifact from stonewashing?...Maybe.
Could it have been scratched by either party?....possibly.
Should a mention and a clear picture of it have been noted in the sale. Definitely.

4.When describing your items, be honest and provide an accurate & detailed description of the item. Don't forget to mention defects, blemishes, new, used, or other problems. When in doubt, be pessimistic with your descriptions. If you have a problem being honest, upfront, and are unable to honor your word then you do not belong here.

5.Provide as many photos as possible, in the best lighting possible. It's always nice for buyers to see what they are going to get. Threads with pictures sell items faster than those without.

 

[Gizmoman]

Might have been a oversite--??
Giving the seller the benefit of the doubt for now
UNTIL he pipes in and or makes contact with the buyer..
Agree with many here..
Just a part of the process and or it could not be seen in the right light
I have had other knives not show a scratch or a trail ..BUT if tilted the right way..IT can
be seen..

Silence doesn't mean GUILTY--Or anything else.
IT just may be he's busy--work..Many variables..
BUT the proof is in the pudding as we say..

I also feel..MY thoughts out loud--If I where the seller and I TRY to be as descriptive as I CAN POSSIBLY BE--
I allow questions etc.. I will undo the deal if needed (only happened maybe 2 times in over 10 years here)
BUT--As I have seen...When an item is sold as carried--SOME buyers feel they are getting the shaft ..WHEN they
bought a carried and or used knife..
On the other hand--I have seen some misrepresentation as stated NIB--And they where not..
I am very particular with whom I deal with. A new person I am VERY VERY clear with
A person I have dealt with---I just describe it..With my rep..They all know if they don't liky--I refund their $$ and or we
figure a something else out.
Its about being upfront--being clear--making certain the other party fully understands And most of all Giving a refund no matter what
to the other person if they so desire one .. That is how we have handled things in here as long as I have been here
DEAL is NOT done until both parties are HAPPY---Just my 2 cents boys and girls..
A reputation is EARNED...Not given out with out merit................

 

[S.Alexander]

If you paid using PayPal, and want to return the knife, then open up a claim. PayPal will look at the evidence you give them, wait for a response from the seller, then make a decision.

 

[Misanthropia]

It is entirely possible that the seller did not consider that a scratch, but part of the stonewash. I'm inclined to say it wasn't a case of deception or even poor representation. But nevertheless, not accepting a return regardless of the reason is uncool. It's a desirable knife, someone will certainly still buy it. It is much easier to just make the return, note the mark in the next sales thread, and move on.

 

[hw1776]

Thanks to all who have taken the time to offer their thoughts.

I paid him with paypal, but with the gift option. So taking it up to Paypal is out of the question.

Regarding the scratch/mark/uneven stonewashing line/beauty mark, I would not be surprised if this was due to uneven stonewashing from factory; however, if I had known about it before the sale, I would probably have looked for another copy of the knife since I was buying a "backup" to the one I already have. At the time, I was in talks with another member who was selling a used Avo, but I decided to pay a little more for this new one. I never accused the seller of using the knife, or scratching the blade himself, and even told him that it probably came from Southard that way.

I really hope to resolve this issue with the seller, either through a complete or partial refund. I have spent way too much time dealing with this and would just like to move on. I have contacted the seller about this thread, but am keeping his identity anonymous in hopes that we can settle this. He is free to comment on this as he sees fit.

 

[TOMBSTONE]

I've sold hundreds of items on the internet over the years. I don't take the best pictures but I inspect my items thoroughly in different lighting and angles. I describe inperefections even if from manufacturer or maker. Sometimes natural materials used in making an item have certain marks like in woods or horn etc. Some people it bother that want the perfect example and some appreciate the natural beauty. I tend to overstate issues so that there is no disappointment. I've gotten a lot of feedback especially on eBay how it was in better condition than described . I prefer it that way, I like people to be pleased. It really is the best policy to abide by both parties being happy or undo the deal . A short inspection period is not too much to ask imho

 

[NCCNC]

Sorry this deal didnt turn out the way you wanted it, but really you just gave him the money as a gift, and he gave you a knife out of the kindness of his heart (at least this is how paypal will view it because they didnt get their tiny 4%). You really have no recourse. Maybe the seller will issue you a full refund and this will end up how you would like, but he is not bound to it. Anyone I have delt with will tell you that making sure my buyer is happy is parmount to me, however everyone just isnt like that. Each party should be happy before any transaction is over, and most bladeforum members are straight up guys, but please, protect yourself next time by following the proper channels and use good/services for payment.

 

[TOMBSTONE]

Oh and just one more comment form the original post in which you repeated from the seller. Just so everyone is aware, your knife is not new in box if you have a piece of lint under the clip which doesn't come from the factory it comes from carrying the knife. And speaking for myself personally it really does do an injustice to fellow forum members by keeping identities secret. I don't like to see people get trashed or piled on uneccessarily but I don't want to risk dealing with people that don't do the right thing to correct an issue