Bowie critique/WIP...UPDATED!!!

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Nov 28, 2014
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[[/B]This will be my first attempt at a Bowie. Up until this point all my knives have been full tangs. It will be .125" cpm154. My questions are how wide should the tang be? If the ricasso is 3/4" is 3/8" wide enough? Any glaring problems or omissions?
 
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I would make it 1/2" at the riccasso and taper to about 5/16 to a 1/4 at the tail.
 
You're going to have a hard time drilling that curved hole in the handle!
 
Yep, that curved tang, as you know, is a problem. The way I try to do it is to leave as much meat as I can behind the ricasso. You don't need a lot of shoulder against which to seat the guard so keep it meaty there. I leave a level or slightly sloped section wide enough for the guard and any spacers then slope it back towards the butt end in straight lines. Obviously this makes drilling the holes easier. Here is the way I do it. YMMV.





And how it falls inside the handle.
 
I have big hands and suggest you make the handle a full 5" with the flair bulb you have on the rear of the handle you want the pinky to comfortable wrap around.

This will also help with the transition to reverse grip. Just my 02 cents.

Good luck and please show use the finished product or a WIP if you can.
 
Look at your sketch and look at i4Marc's.

See how his has flow and yours is somewhat blocky. Try to re-draw it so it has more blade to handle ratio. Your blade is not balanced to the massive handle. Extending the blade to 6.0-6.5" would help a lot. As it is, the knife is longer from the plunge to the butt than from plunge to tip. Smoothing up the blade tip profile would also help with the balanced look. It is a bit fat and blocky at the tip as drawn.

I like to draw the blade and handle separately. Draw the basic handle profile with few details and cut out the handle sketch when it looks good. Lay it on the blade sketches to try different looks. Draw the blade several ways, and change the handle angle and position on the ricasso until it starts looking right. Decide which blade and position looks the best with the handle. Once you have a good idea of the look, re-draw everything and refine the details.
 
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Y'know Stacy, I think he's got ok flow through the ricasso/handle junction. Good alignment there. But the upper lug on the guard is killing the flow for me. Maybe if he dropped the angle of the handle a bit so that the straight line from the spine continued along the top of the forward part of the handle before rolling down the rest towards the butt. Without changing the OP's design too much, these are the changes I'd make:

Smooth out the belly a bit.

Add a touch more flare at the butt.

Widen the ricasso/handle joint slightly.

Drop the handle angle a smidge so the top line flows better.

Widen and elongate the tang.

Remove the guard top lug.


Before:


After:
 
That is exactly what I was talking about. Thanks Marc.

An inch more blade and a tad less belly, and it would also take on more of a fighter look.
 
Thanks fellas! Would the angle of the handle and tang not make it tough to drill and keep square? There are parts of the build that I haven't quite grasped in my head and will have to figure out along the way. I've always been a hands on learner anyway. Also, the handle seems big too me but it's only a little over 4" from guard to the bottom of the butt. How about y'all? Here is a new sketch.
 
Matt R,

Keep a couple of things in mind. Nobody is trying to change your design so don't feel you need to redesign for us. We are just trying to help you optimize YOUR design. If our suggestions inspire you to make changes of your own intent, that's cool. The other thing is that your drawing is kind of like the blueprint for the project. So draw it as accurately as you can. That doesn't mean you have to use computers or spec out measurements to the thousandth of an inch. It means make sure curves and angles are smooth, straight, aligned or whatever the way they need to be. Let's look at your new drawing. Your angles are off a bit. Let's use the point at the top left corner of the guard (from this view) as our zero point or home base from which we make our visual assessments. I use this point as my reference point because this is where we usually find a right angle. The guard should be straight up and down here and the spine of the blade should be extending out at 90˚ from the guard. The spine may curve as it travels towards the tip and the guard may curl depending on design. But at this corner we usually have a good right angle reference.

So, if we examine your sketch it appears that the spine droops, the plunge line leans forward and the bottom of the ricasso curves downward. I think we can fix most of those problems just by turning the paper a few degrees to the right, hahaha. Then we only have the guard to fix. The point is to pick a zero point like the spine/guard junction as your foundation then make sure everything else is drawn/built in proper relation to that point. I understand that this is just a sketch but as you start working out the details you want in the finished piece, try to make sure the drawing is accurate. In this drawing it looks like the front of the handle is a little taller than .75". Unless you have very small hands I think 1"-1.125" is a comfortable width. I would widen the whole handle accordingly. If you decide to widen the handle, don't forget to widen the ricasso to match. Your line across the top of the knife looks good. Nice swell at the butt. The tang could still use another quarter inch in length. But if you make the handle wider you can also widen the tang. More steel = more strength. Also, the thinner the tang is, the closer to a square it will get in cross section. the closer to square it is, the more chance of the handle rotating on the tang under twisting loads. You will have the epoxy in there and it looks like you'll be pinning the handle. In theory however, the taller the tang in relation to the width, the less likely it is that the handle will break it's bond and twist. While we are talking about handles, take a look at your hand. Close your fist and look at how your curled fingers fall in your palm. The pinky (on my fat paws) is 3/4" away from the edge of my hand. This means that the top part of the handle may benefit from being a little longer than the bottom to accommodate the heel of the palm. That is why, if you take a look at the drawing I posted earlier, you will see the butt is angled at approximately 45˚. This is a personal preference issue but worth considering.

I think the blade deserves a closer look. What do you want here? Do you want a continuous curve from the heel all the way to the tip? Do you want a straight section before it begins to curve up to the tip? It seems that the edge, starting at the heel, drops down then straightens out then heads back up towards the tip in a pretty straight line. This is important. Even small changes in the line of the blade can make a big difference visually. It can mean the difference between something kinda wonky and something streamlined and refined. It sets the attitude of the knife. Changes in the line of the blade, particularly the edge, can also have a big impact on its performance. So it's usually a good idea to ask yourself "what is this knife going to be asked to do"? I am not an expert on all styles of knives but obviously some shapes work better for certain task than others. Make this part of your design decisions. The forward 1/3 of the edge looks a bit straight to me but if you erase the inside stretch of the line where it is drawn thickly I think it will give you the feeling of just enough curve there. If you intend for the rest of the edge to be straight then bring it straight back to the heel.

Overall I think your design is good. Tighten up the drawing a bit before you transfer the pattern to your steel. Keep us posted with your progress.
 
Thanks again Marc for your opinion. This is way out of my comfort zone which is why I'm doing it. I will say that normally I do a rough sketch(no straight edge or anything other than a pencil) and then transfer to a piece of acrylic. Then I use the platen and wheels I have to straighten up my lines and radii. I like the new blade design and am wanting a drawn out clip point. I will redraw it and straighten things up and post it in a few.
I'm still not completely satisfied with the handle but I think, as a whole, it's getting closer.
 
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Thanks again Marc for your opinion. This is way out of my comfort zone which is why I'm doing it. I will say that normally I do a rough sketch(no straight edge or anything other than a pencil) and then transfer to a piece of acrylic. Then I use the platen and wheels I have to straighten up my lines and radii. I like the new blade design and am wanting a drawn out clip point. I will redraw it and straighten things up and post it in a few.
I'm still not completely satisfied with the handle but I think, as a whole, it's getting closer.

If the knife winds up looking like that then I'd definitely consider it. From a buyer's perspective it looks pretty nice. Blade looks functional, handle looks maybe a little fat but not bad, flair at the butt looks good, guard isn't excessive, choil isn't excessive. The only thing I can think of by looking at the sketch is that maybe the handle could be a touch shorter or the blade just a bit longer, or maybe the flair at the top of the butt not quite so pronounced. Not that my non-knife making opinion is all that important, but it does look more balanced in the second sketch than the firsr.
 
Matt R,

That second sketch is MUCH improved IMHO. I think if we keep in mind the 1" grid behind the drawing, the handle is probably minimum length. The handle depth looks much better. Lines are all much neater. I think the flare at the top of the butt end of the handle is a bit much and will likely cause a hot spot in use. If you eased that flare down so it terminates on an angle parallel to the horizontal grid lines it would be better. The only other thing I will mention is the tang shape. Thickness is much better. You can make the tang whatever shape you want but if the new shape is related to the drawing I posted then let's take a closer look. I do it that way because of the way I put MY knives together. You will have trouble drilling your tang hole with the tang shaped that way. If you examine my drawing you'll see that the guard ends at that kink in the tang. This way the guard seats on a level or almost level section then the angle of the top of the tang going into the handle accommodates the drop in the top of the handle. The hole in the handle is made of straight lines which are easy to drill. So the top line of your tang can be a straight line up to the back of the spacers. Otherwise, your drawing is looking very good.
 
I finally got caught up in the shop and got to work on this a little. 2 questions. 1. Do the shoulders where the guard sits need to be the same length? I dont see why they would but thought I would ask. 2. How far should I go before heat treat? I have squared up the shoulders and am going to rough out the bevels tomorrow I am waiting on guard material so can I go ahead and ht?
 
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