Bowie mania, let's see the Bowies.

[BladeScout]

Okay, some of us need to do a little research; by page 5 the definition of a Bowie has gotten a little too inclusive (a Bowie doesn’t include everything with a blade).

Well, technically one could post a generic large kitchen knife and still fall in the Bowie knife category, as a large generic looking butcher knife (like those found in most kitchens today) most likely was what Bowie used in the Vidalia Sandbar rough and tumble.

The blade, as later described by Rezin Bowie, was 9.5 in (24 cm) long, 0.25 in (0.64 cm) thick and 1.5 in (3.8 cm) wide. It was straight-backed, described by witnesses as "a large butcher knife", and having no clip-point nor any handguard, with a simple riveted wood scale handle.

I’ve only got a trail master you have all seen them before but a question....Does anyone know what the early Bowie profile was like the type Mr Bowie used in the sandbar duel??

See above.

 

[Mossyhorn]

Well, technically one could post a generic large kitchen knife and still fall in the Bowie knife category, as a large generic looking butcher knife (like those found in most kitchens today) most likely was what Bowie used in the Vidalia Sandbar rough and tumble.

The blade, as later described by Rezin Bowie, was 9.5 in (24 cm) long, 0.25 in (0.64 cm) thick and 1.5 in (3.8 cm) wide. It was straight-backed, described by witnesses as "a large butcher knife", and having no clip-point nor any handguard, with a simple riveted wood scale handle.


The original knife was lost. There's really no way to tell, it may have indeed differed from his recollection.

 

[BladeScout]

I’ve only got a trail master you have all seen them before but a question....Does anyone know what the early Bowie profile was like the type Mr Bowie used in the sandbar duel??

You are not wrong per se in calling it the 'Sandbar Duel,' as many call it that.
How ever the Bowie - knife and man - fame, which sprung from that day on the sandbar is due to what happened after the duel.
The duel, which was conducted along the lines of the formal dueling code of the time, was over (nobody got hit and the matter settled with a shake of the hand) when two groups clashed most likely to settle old grievances. Two persons had fought before.
Bowie more or less got caught up in the ensuing melee and got shot, stabbed several times and had an empty pistol thrown at him (it hit Bowie in the head).
JB got stabbed by a cane sword but pulled the attacking person on to his knife. Dude shuffled of this mortal coil in short order (small wonder) and JB then lobbed off part of another persons arm.
What earned JB and his knife the fame, was from what happened after the formal duel was less duel-like and more aptly described as being of a deadly brawl in nature.

 

[Hermit_Knight]

You are not wrong per se in calling it the 'Sandbar Duel,' as many call it that.
How ever the Bowie - knife and man - fame, which sprung from that day on the sandbar is due to what happened after the duel.
The duel, which was conducted along the lines of the formal dueling code of the time, was over (nobody got hit and the matter settled with a shake of the hand) when two groups clashed most likely to settle old grievances. Two persons had fought before.
Bowie more or less got caught up in the ensuing melee and got shot, stabbed several times and had an empty pistol thrown at him (it hit Bowie in the head).
JB got stabbed by a cane sword but pulled the attacking person on to his knife. Dude shuffled of this mortal coil in short order (small wonder) and JB then lobbed off part of another persons arm.
What earned JB and his knife the fame, was from what happened after the formal duel was less duel-like and more aptly described as being of a deadly brawl in nature.

Sounds like a brutal melee, how did he survive haha.

 

[Hermit_Knight]

Also the knife that Jim Bowie used after the sandbar incident when he saved himself from three attackers is this maybe the same kind of knife used at the sandbar or a different design and what design did he have at the Alamo is this known? I’m just getting into American history especially the Texas Mexican wars.

 

[Mossyhorn]

You are not wrong per se in calling it the 'Sandbar Duel,' as many call it that.
How ever the Bowie - knife and man - fame, which sprung from that day on the sandbar is due to what happened after the duel.
The duel, which was conducted along the lines of the formal dueling code of the time, was over (nobody got hit and the matter settled with a shake of the hand) when two groups clashed most likely to settle old grievances. Two persons had fought before.
Bowie more or less got caught up in the ensuing melee and got shot, stabbed several times and had an empty pistol thrown at him (it hit Bowie in the head).
JB got stabbed by a cane sword but pulled the attacking person on to his knife. Dude shuffled of this mortal coil in short order (small wonder) and JB then lobbed off part of another persons arm.
What earned JB and his knife the fame, was from what happened after the formal duel was less duel-like and more aptly described as being of a deadly brawl in nature.

This is all common knowledge, let's get back to the photos.

You are not wrong per se in calling it the 'Sandbar Duel,' as many call it that.
How ever the Bowie - knife and man - fame, which sprung from that day on the sandbar is due to what happened after the duel.
The duel, which was conducted along the lines of the formal dueling code of the time, was over (nobody got hit and the matter settled with a shake of the hand) when two groups clashed most likely to settle old grievances. Two persons had fought before.
Bowie more or less got caught up in the ensuing melee and got shot, stabbed several times and had an empty pistol thrown at him (it hit Bowie in the head).
JB got stabbed by a cane sword but pulled the attacking person on to his knife. Dude shuffled of this mortal coil in short order (small wonder) and JB then lobbed off part of another persons arm.
What earned JB and his knife the fame, was from what happened after the formal duel was less duel-like and more aptly described as being of a deadly brawl in nature.

This is all common knowledge, let's get back to photos.

 

[BladeScout]

Also the knife that Jim Bowie used after the sandbar incident when he saved himself from three attackers is this maybe the same kind of knife used at the sandbar or a different design and what design did he have at the Alamo is this known? I’m just getting into American history especially the Texas Mexican wars.

There are many conflicting stories by different sources.
Some state, JB never fought a knife fight after the Sandbar.
He may have changed knives several times. Its pretty certain, that the original Sandbar knife was as stated in my previous post above though. The butcher knife/kitchen knife part, we know.
Which ever knife he had at the Alamo is lost to time (I bet that it wasnt that Musso monstrosity though). Sadly the movie 'Iron Mistress' has done irreparable damage to the common perception of what a Bowie knife is and laid the foundation for some outlandish knives.
I strongly recommend reading 'Bowie Knife Fights, Fighters and Fighting Techniques' by Paul Kirchner to get a feel for the American (knife) history.

 

[Hermit_Knight]

There are many conflicting stories by different sources.
Some state, JB never fought a knife fight after the Sandbar.
He may have changed knives several times. Its pretty certain, that the original Sandbar knife was as stated in my previous post above though. The butcher knife/kitchen knife part, we know.
Which ever knife he had at the Alamo is lost to time (I bet that it wasnt that Musso monstrosity though). Sadly the movie 'Iron Mistress' has done irreparable damage to the common perception of what a Bowie knife is and laid the foundation for some outlandish knives.
I strongly recommend reading 'Bowie Knife Fights, Fighters and Fighting Techniques' by Paul Kirchner to get a feel for the American (knife) history.

Thanks for the info I’ve been looking for a book like that.

 

[BladeScout]

Thanks for the info I’ve been looking for a book like that.

No problemo.

 

[Makael]

Great knives guys. They are all awesome

 

[shaving sharp]

A few from my collection.

 

[sparklygalaxy]

A matching pair here. Buffalo Horn and Malachite.
View attachment 906859 View attachment 906860 View attachment 906861

Malachite... *_* ♡♡♡♡

 

[Dave from State Farm]

 

[marcinek]

Okay, some of us need to do a little research; by page 5 the definition of a Bowie has gotten a little too inclusive (a Bowie doesn’t include everything with a blade).

Many would argue that it doesnt include the Randalls you have cited as examples of Bowies either.

If one is going to stick to a strict historical definition (I dont, my Bowie is not historically correct) then one does need to do the reseach from credible sources.

 

[Ebbtide]

Some links for your reading pleasure...

http://bowieknifefightsfighters.blogspot.com/2010/12/jim-bowies-sandbar-fight.html

https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1894/03/25/106901111.pdf

I highly recommend Flayderman's "The Bowie Knife Book"

A properly made coffin handle, as above, is quite secure in the hand.
The coffin forms a knob which fits your hand when held in the saber grip.
Similar to the Price San Francisco style "egg handle"

Besides, why worry? Nowadays our knives are tools and we don't do pokey stabby things with them.
I collect for the history and as a yearly reward for sobriety

And just cuz I've got the Bruce Evans album open, a "Cowboy" bowie (so called because the name still sold, but cowboys and gamblers needed a smaller knife...) The bowie has continually evolved...

 

[kamagong]

Many would argue that it doesnt include the Randalls you have cited as examples of Bowies either.

If one is going to stick to a strict historical definition (I dont, my Bowie is not historically correct) then one does need to do the reseach from credible sources.

Perhaps, but he has a point. Post #94 is especially egregious. We can't definitely say what Jim's knife looked like, but we do know that it wasn't a folder.

 

[Hermit_Knight]

Some links for your reading pleasure...

http://bowieknifefightsfighters.blogspot.com/2010/12/jim-bowies-sandbar-fight.html

https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1894/03/25/106901111.pdf

I highly recommend Flayderman's "The Bowie Knife Book"

A properly made coffin handle, as above, is quite secure in the hand.
The coffin forms a knob which fits your hand when held in the saber grip.
Similar to the Price San Francisco style "egg handle"

Besides, why worry? Nowadays our knives are tools and we don't do pokey stabby things with them.
I collect for the history and as a yearly reward for sobriety

And just cuz I've got the Bruce Evans album open, a "Cowboy" bowie (so called because the name still sold, but cowboys and gamblers needed a smaller knife...) The bowie has continually evolved...

Beautiful blades mate and cheers for the links I’ll read them after work.

 

[Douglas Wever]

Many would argue that it doesnt include the Randalls you have cited as examples of Bowies either.

Well I mentioned five Randalls and only argued with certainty that one, the Smithsonian would absolutely be a Bowie (see Post 113 by another forum member), but upon further reflection, the only think absolute in this discussion is there are virtually no absolutes. I said that the Randall 12-9 would be a Bowie with virtual but not absolute certainty. The other three Randalls I dismissed two and a third I said maybe/maybe not (although a Randall Model 14 would be a lot closer than a number of the pictures posted in this thread).

Any argument is bound to be imprecise because nothing exactly constitutes the definition of a Bowie. Over the years many knives have been called Bowie knives and the term has almost become a generic term for any large sheath knife. While the definition is very broad, I think possibly we can all agree the post on page 5 of this thread who posted his 3" bladed folder as a Bowie is wrong; or the post with guardless little coffin knives is wrong. Even as imprecise as the definition is, these can be eliminated.

In the State of Alabama the carry of a Bowie knife is mentioned in legislation in the late 19th Century and is still on the books, but the definition of a Bowie knife had to be subsequently established by case law calling a Bowie anything that couldn't be concealed in a pants pocket. Nobody actually believed that, but it gave the State broad enforcement abilities at a time when stopping duels with Bowies were a priority.

The historical Bowie knife was not one design, but a number of subsequent knives modified several times by Jim Bowie over the years. And even then, some of that history is debated. The first one, made by Jesse Clift at Bowie's brother's request resembled Spanish hunting knives, and differed little from a regular butcher’s knife. The blade, as described by Rezin Bowie, was 9.5 in long, 0.25 in thick and 1.5 in wide. Had no clip-point nor any handguard. Eventually, most later versions of the Bowie knife had a blade at least 8 inches in length, with a relatively broad blade that was an inch and a half to two inches wide, and made of steel usually between 3⁄16 to 1⁄4 in thick. A clip point and a bevel ground along the clip.

 

[BladeScout]

While the definition is very broad, I think possibly we can all agree the post on page 5 of this thread who posted his 3" bladed folder as a Bowie is wrong; or the post with guardless little coffin knives is wrong. Even as imprecise as the definition is, these can be eliminated.

The folder has, what is commonly conceived as a Bowie shaped blade. As the OP didnt ask for fixed blades only (its of course up to him and he can still request fixed blades only in a thread, he started), IMO it falls within the parametres of a Bowie shaped blade

As for Ebbtides coffin handles and others of their ilk, they are very much Bowie knives.
Great pic and great knives too. The Jantz and the smaller ones especially.

In my opinion, the coffin handles in question are maybe even more true to some historical Bowie knives than much more outlandish blades.

By your definition, the below knife is not a Bowie knife, which quite frankly is a preposterous statement.

The knife was supposedly made by James Black. Maybe you reqognize the name. If you dont, maybe not make blanket statements in regards to Bowie knives. No disrespect intended.

Ive seen this knife up close and its a beaut.

 

[The Zieg]

I call these Tehachapi Saddle Bowies.

I call this a "saddle chincasa". It's used to attach items, anything with a belt loop, camera bag, bino case, holster, sheath, etc to a saddle.

Attached to the saddle.

Belduques reborn.

Zieg