Brand New BK9 Failure!

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dcgisme

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Feb 3, 2009
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Hey folks, new to the forum and Becker knives in general. About a month ago I picked up a BK2 and started testing/using it for camping and bushcraft.

Much to my surprise, the BK2 proved to be remarkably useful and I found myself increasingly going back to the BK2 for various chores. The thick spine really lent it's self to a wide variety of needs and chores; not the least of which was batoning and making quick work of limbing and light hacking. This BK2 was proving to be an awesome, if unexpectedly appreciated, knife.

Impressed and increasingly interested in seeing how a longer blade would work, I dropped some cash in my third Becker (the second was a BK11 that was gifted).

So I decided to take the BK9 with me to a cabin in the WV highlands for this Memorial Day weekend. While there, we tested it lightly the first day (too busy otherwise) and finally got down to business yesterday at the woodshed. Needing to start a grilling fire, we needed to baton down some small to medium grade kindling and the BK9 was unsheathed for some real work.

It started out beautifully. Initially, we were duly impressed with how well it was quickly batoning down red and black oak into a useful pile of firewood. My son was singing the praises of this new tool and so, in a moment of impromptu generosity, I gave it to him. Quite pleased, he was wrapping up the last few batons and not more then five minutes later, he called me over to show me the following ...

Shattered Becker BK9 #1
Shattered Becker BK9 #2
Submerged Shattered Becker BK9 Tip
Shattered Becker BK9 Close Up #1
Shattered Becker BK9 #3
Shattered Becker BK9 in Hand

I thought at first he was kidding, but as you can see, joking he was not. Frankly, I was pretty surprised. Granted, somewhat in defense of the blade, we were batoning down a very hard, tight grained wood that I think was black oak. Still, the failure was unexpected.

Don't get me wrong folks, I'm (at this point) chalking this up to a fluke failure and both the (esp) BK2 and BK11 have proven themselves to be real working tools. I guess it's time to test the company and see how well they'll stand behind the tool. I'll contact them this week and see if I can't get it replaced under warrenty. I only got this thing last Thursday ...

To add insult to injury, a second round of batoning later the same day with the BK2 resulted in a son-in-law returning back a BK2 sans one handle screw and nut (guess it shook free during the workout?). Now I gotta track one of these down as well. Oh well, such is life when knives are put to real work I guess.

In any case, thought I throw this out there and glean any useful feedback.
 
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Supmonkeyface, yes there are supposed to be pics; only they didn't take (for some reason?) I edited the post to include direct links to the Flickr shots. Sorry for any confusion.
 
That sucks. I would think with those pics there should be no doubt about it getting replaced for free.
 
Bummer!

I could see where this might happen if the baton blow came at an angle rather than straight down onto the spine of the knife - causing the blade to be flexed sideways rather than driven straight into the wood.

Or hitting a knot or burl in the wood too ...
 
That is a really strange looking break. I was expecting to see something broken at the handle/blade junction like you almost always see on batoning accidents. I'm not usually one to call flaw, but I think you have a genuine flaw on this one!
 
Bladeandbarrel said:
Too hard!
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Do you think so?

In all honestly, I want to stay in ethical boundaries and "fair use". Over the recent past, I've been using and testing a growing number of fixed blades --ranging from makers like Fehrman, Rat Cutler, Blind Horse and so on. Usually the blade will get stuck well before it breaks - at least that has been my experience so far.

I've never hit metal hard enough such that wood could create a fracture of the type seen in the pictures. I guess its possible but this begs the question of fair use. So, in open honestly (and not really trying to be snarky here): would it be considered fair use to use a BK9 for batoning a large, tight-grained, very hard species of wood? Even doing so pretty darn hard? Would this be considered abusive?

I dunno? Help me out and I'm open to charitable feedback folks ...
 
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kgd said:
That is a really strange looking break. I was expecting to see something broken at the handle/blade junction like you almost always see on batoning accidents. I'm not usually one to call flaw, but I think you have a genuine flaw on this one!
Click to expand...
I agree. I've heard nothing but exceptional things about both the maker (Ethan Becker) and the company, so I really was surprised to see a break of this nature occur.

While I was not directly watching the break when it occurred, it was done by a son who is pretty coordinated and competent, yet not nearly as strong as his dad (yet, at least). No hitting the handle or extreme tip --at least not that I'm aware of or intentionally so.

And, for the record, I still think my BK2 rocks like few other knives for this price-to-performance ratio! A really awesome knife for the money and I can't recommend it strongly enough to friends and family.
 
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Sorry folks I have to agree with an earlier thread. Ethan Beckers knives are true tanks but there are limits to what abuse any knife can be expected to withstand. Red oak is one of the hardest woods one could encounter. You cannot even drive nails into it once it is dry so one can hardly be surprised when a knife breaks when being batoned into a large specimen of that formidable wood. I to like to push boundaries with my knives but I accept that there are certain times when one must defer to an axe, splitting maul or a splitting wedge. Under the circumstances in which this knife broke I would have real difficulty submitting any sort of a warranty claim.
 
thlawren said:
Sorry folks I have to agree with an earlier thread. Ethan Beckers knives are true tanks but there are limits to what abuse any knife can be expected to withstand. Red oak is one of the hardest woods one could encounter. You cannot even drive nails into it once it is dry so one can hardly be surprised when a knife breaks when being batoned into a large specimen of that formidable wood. I to like to push boundaries with my knives but I accept that there are certain times when one must defer to an axe, splitting maul or a splitting wedge. Under the circumstances in which this knife broke I would have real difficulty submitting any sort of a warranty claim.
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I hear you and I appreciate the thoughtful challenge. You offer some food for thought.

Ironically, most of the red oak actually split pretty easily. It was the yellowish, harder species that was hard as hell to split. I think it may have been black oak? I'm honestly not sure?

Still, I've never had any other knife failures of this type under near identical use; even, if I recall correctly, the same species.

Thanks again for the shared perspective thlawren ...
 
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kgd said:
That is a really strange looking break. I was expecting to see something broken at the handle/blade junction like you almost always see on batoning accidents. I'm not usually one to call flaw, but I think you have a genuine flaw on this one!
Click to expand...

X2

My first reaction was exclaiming "holy sh!t" which disturbed those around me but once they saw it they exclaimed "what the fvck?" and "good God."

In my experience, limited as it is, knives don't break like that too often. It's probably a lemon IMO.

Now, there's always an upside....you get to grind a super handy baby Becker knife out of the remains!*

*or make some freaky tanto thing:D
 
Thanks for fixing the pictures :), looks like an irregular heat treat or something, where that part of the blade got hardened to brittleness... but i'm no expert.
 
dcgisme said:
Do you think so?

In all honestly, I want to stay in ethical boundaries and "fair use". Over the recent past, I've been using and testing a growing number of fixed blades --ranging from makers like Fehrman, Rat Cutler, Blind Horse and so on. Usually the blade will get stuck well before it breaks - at least that has been my experience so far.

I've never hit metal hard enough such that wood could create a fracture of the type seen in the pictures. I guess its possible but this begs the question of fair use. So, in open honestly (and not really trying to be snarky here): would it be considered fair use to use a BK9 for batoning a large, tight-grained, very hard species of wood? Even doing so pretty darn hard? Would this be considered abusive?

I dunno? Help me out and I'm open to charitable feedback folks ...
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, what were you using as a baton? If it was a piece of wood, then that should never have happened. If, however, you were using steel (a hammer, for instance), then a fracture would indeed be possible.

It looks like -- and this is just a personal observation -- you got a BK-9 with a bad heat treat, which can happen with any steel, from any manufacturer.

As far as fair use, Ethan Becker has stated that he considers batonning to be normal usage of his knives, and he stands behind them. My suggestion would be to tell the manufacturer (Ka-Bar) what has happened, tell them the circumstances, and send your pictures, too. Ka-Bar is an old and reputable manufacturer who has a history of standing behind their products. If, for some reason, you don't get any satisfaction from Ka-Bar (which I can't imagine), I suggest you email Ethan Becker directly. He's said in the past that he wants to know about this kind of thing: I suspect he will make sure that it gets taken care of. Not only does he check in here from time to time, but he's also moderator on this board. You should be able to click his signature to get his email address.
 
no one is commenting on the wood (structure).

take a look at it, brethren.

the blade was being hammered right into a double knotted area - the wood must be incredibly dense there, even if it were soft wood.

what do you think?

vec
 
vector001 said:
no one is commenting on the wood (structure).

take a look at it, brethren.

the blade was being hammered right into a double knotted area - the wood must be incredibly dense there, even if it were soft wood.

what do you think?

vec
Click to expand...

While I have to agree with you that it must be incredibly dense, especially that type of oak, but the 1095 used in Becker's has a reputation for toughness for a reason. If the OP was using a wood baton, I would think the blade would have simply stuck (probably rolling the edge, though) rather than shattering. If he was using a steel hammer as a baton to force it through then, yeah, I can see where the blade might shatter. He hasn't said what he was using for a baton.
 
I have seen a similiar thing happen on a totally different type of knife. While I can't say for sure, I chalked the other one up to transverse loading and a thin grind.

This one looks remarkably similiar. Looking at the knot, and the way the knife broke around it, makes me think that there was some sideways loading there. I have batonned through softwood knots smaller than that, and understand that they take large amounts of force to get through. A hardwood knot of that size would take even more. The knife most likely did get stuck in the knot, and the operator did what any card carrying knife knut would do...let the beating commence.:D The problem is that area of the log looks to be one that would rebuff an 8lb splitting maul with aplomb.

I am not saying yea or nea on a warranty claim, just offering a possible explanation. While I am interested to see the outcome, it is interesting that there is still enough blade to carry on with quite a few tasks.
 
Bladeandbarrel said:
Too hard!
Click to expand...

It's difficult to tell from a 2 word reply, but B&B may mean that the blade is too hard. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but that was my first thought when I saw the break. Is it possible that the blade twisted when it hit a knot?

I have...ahhhh...a negative opinion of this guy, but here's a video of a destruction test of a BK9. I don't know what kind of wood he in batoning the blade into, but it looks pretty hard.

http://www.knifetests.com/page5.html

Cliff Stamp (GASP!) also tested a BK9 and broke it during a flex test.

http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/becker_combat_bowie.html
 
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