Brands comparable to busse

Cobalt said:
very nice
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Thanks! I like making kindling.. ;):D

dingy said:
looks like you beat it alot :thumbup:
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:thumbup: Yep, this one has seen it's share of use. I don't really like owning blades that don't get used. :thumbup:

Moar pics, cause why not?... ;):thumbup:

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Once the 1311 get kydex it's getting wailed on LOL. ;):D:thumbup:

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Czechmate said:
Thanks! I like making kindling.. ;):D



:thumbup: Yep, this one has seen it's share of use. I don't really like owning blades that don't get used. :thumbup:

Moar pics, cause why not?... ;):thumbup:

22333103485_75e213b591_c.jpg


Once the 1311 get kydex it's getting wailed on LOL. ;):D:thumbup:

22145099480_e15289fa9a_c.jpg
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may you introduce that blank to me? is it comes from BUSSE KIN. Czechmate ?
 
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This looks like a pretty epic discussion I missed during my 2 mos. hiatus..... Since somebody else brought it back, (else I never would have seen it), I want to chime in while I have a chance...

I don't own any Busse's, lord knows they are out of my current "affordable" price range, and cheaper production blades have suited my "needs" just fine to this point.
Need > Want
but they are "on the list" for somewhere down the line...

I am utterly intrigued by INFI steel though!

A few questions I have, (maybe Jerry can even chime in)
I use zknives a bit, as it is a very handy and convenient resource for steel composition, though minor discrepencies have been noted at times (and always corrected, so hats off to the owner)
But that said, is there any credance to the zKnives claims behind infi's composition being determined for the most part via the Darrel Lewis analysis, and the German lab analysis earlier (pre2002);
"INFI(Busse) - Current INFI steel composition is shown in the primary record, well at least it was that in 2009 when X-Ray SEM analysis of the INFI steel was performed by Darrel Lewis, working at Inobond, child company of the Bodycote. The composition was published in December 2009, although Darrel did mention that analysis was done few years prior to publishing. Which means somewhere after 2002-2004 INFI composition has been changed, from it's original make up. It's still an excellent performer, and as Darrel noted in his post, has very dense grain structure. The original Pre 2002 INFI steel composition, obtained earlier by a lab in Germany and it contained Nitrogen, which was confirmed by Jerry Busse (the presence of nitrogen, not the whole composition), although Jerry didn't dispute the results either. As you can see, Nitrogen and Cobalt are gone from the composition. I suppose materials pricing and HT protocols considerations had some effect on those decisions. INFI does have proprietary HT protocol which is rather long and complicated, but the results speak for themselves.[/b]"
http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=infi

And if so, has anyone actually done a head to head of an old infi blade vs. a new infi blade, to compare the differences? If the composition charts are in the ball park accurate, it appears infi is a low(er) carbon but high(er) carbide nonstainless steel that would still resist rust to a certain extent... I am Curious as to how much of a difference was made in removing the cobalt, nitrogen, and nickel from the matrix? It seems it would still be tough stuff, but the corrosion resistance (which was always reportedly amazing for Busse being a non stainless steel), and even edge holding may be lessened to a degree, (the latter being the most common complaint I've heard/read about newer busse Knives, which by comparrison was rarely ever an issue brought up in older models)...
 
Jerry Busse said:


Let's Drink!:thumbup:

Jerry:D
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I like this guy!!! First round's on you though boss!!! ;)

If the questions were already addressed, my apologies, I only read in skimming the first 9 or 10 pages, weeding through the BS, and glanced back about 4 or 5 pages, so certainly didn't take in this entire conversation (which is 30 pages on my browser).
 
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strategy9 said:
This looks like a pretty epic discussion I missed during my 2 mos. hiatus..... Since somebody else brought it back, (else I never would have seen it), I want to chime in while I have a chance...

I don't own any Busse's, lord knows they are out of my current "affordable" price range, and cheaper production blades have suited my "needs" just fine to this point.
Need > Want
but they are "on the list" for somewhere down the line...

I am utterly intrigued by INFI steel though!

A few questions I have, (maybe Jerry can even chime in)
I use zknives a bit, as it is a very handy and convenient resource for steel composition, though minor discrepencies have been noted at times (and always corrected, so hats off to the owner)
But that said, is there any credance to the zKnives claims behind infi's composition being determined for the most part via the Darrel Lewis analysis, and the German lab analysis earlier (pre2002);
"INFI(Busse) - Current INFI steel composition is shown in the primary record, well at least it was that in 2009 when X-Ray SEM analysis of the INFI steel was performed by Darrel Lewis, working at Inobond, child company of the Bodycote. The composition was published in December 2009, although Darrel did mention that analysis was done few years prior to publishing. Which means somewhere after 2002-2004 INFI composition has been changed, from it's original make up. It's still an excellent performer, and as Darrel noted in his post, has very dense grain structure. The original Pre 2002 INFI steel composition, obtained earlier by a lab in Germany and it contained Nitrogen, which was confirmed by Jerry Busse (the presence of nitrogen, not the whole composition), although Jerry didn't dispute the results either. As you can see, Nitrogen and Cobalt are gone from the composition. I suppose materials pricing and HT protocols considerations had some effect on those decisions. INFI does have proprietary HT protocol which is rather long and complicated, but the results speak for themselves.[/b]"
http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=infi

And if so, has anyone actually done a head to head of an old infi blade vs. a new infi blade, to compare the differences? If the composition charts are in the ball park accurate, it appears infi is a low(er) carbon but high(er) carbide nonstainless steel that would still resist rust to a certain extent... I am Curious as to how much of a difference was made in removing the cobalt, nitrogen, and nickel from the matrix? It seems it would still be tough stuff, but the corrosion resistance (which was always reportedly amazing for Busse being a non stainless steel), and even edge holding may be lessened to a degree, (the latter being the most common complaint I've heard/read about newer busse Knives, which by comparrison was rarely ever an issue brought up in older models)...
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Yes, Cobalt and Nickel are gone from INFI. Not sure about Nitrogen since the tests I do, do not detect it. As for the change in properties. I could be wrong, but Cobalt adds wear resistance and makes the steel more resistant to high heat. I don't think it has any advantages in toughness. Nickel probably does similar things to Cobalt. So the loss of either did not affect toughness.
 
I just wanted to add, seeing as there seems to be some debate, that there is little to no hype when it comes to the performance of Infi. I have actually just received my first Busse via a for sale forum on this site. Now I'm not going to lie when I say that I have sipped the coolaid....SLIGHTLY...I might also add that I did a substantial amount of resesrch/lurking/reading/watching prior to this purchase as I have not even come close to spending this amount of money on a knife before in my life. It was imperative that I received a knife that was more than a name and I believe Busse makes those knives. Knife was dull out of the box, I mean struggling to push cut paper dull, but within 20 minutes on a sharpmaker the 1/4 inch thick TGLB was shaving hairs with extreme prejudice. I promptly dismantled a few cardboard boxes and took a full force swing into a steel can with basically no change to the edge what so ever. The following day I brought the Busse into the woods on a 6 mile hike. During this trek I put this knife through its paces. I cut down multiple dried up mangrove trees, countless shrubs cleared and cut down, tested on cypress, oak, palm, and countless other unidentified trees. I beat the hell out of this knife. 5 minutes honing on the sharpmaker and she was back to true. No damage, even the coating wears wonderfully.

Overall, thoroughly impressed. Pricey? Yes. Overpriced? As always, that is subjective. I value a tool that I'll never need to replace. A tool I can pass on to my children when it's time. Some put value on a good deal or a pragmatic choice. If you see value then buy it. If you end up not liking it, it'll probably be one of the few brands you can sell used to hell for at least 75% of what was paid. Shoot, most of them turn a profit if you are the original buyer selling it aftermarket.
 
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I think that there is a point of diminishing returns with any product including knives. Is a $600 busse(or other high end knife including customs) 4 times better than a $150 ESEE? no. I don't think so. There are great knives to be had for under $200. You certainly don't need to spend 5 bills to get an excellent blade. Questions like this never get answered well. The fans of the brand in question will always say nothing is comparable and fans of other brands will say that the brand in question is all hype. It is a never ending loop. If you like Fehrman, GSO and many more good quality brands have at it. They are top quality and comparable to Busse and will likely last a lifetime. I love my ESEE's. Great knives for the money.
 
I agree Cobalt. I EDC an ESSE 3 and I love it. I don't care what knife you have, there's nothing out there that can preform 4 times better than an ESSE for their intended purpose. But is a Bugatti 5 times faster than a Ferrari? Subjective.
 
ChrisKnife said:
I agree Cobalt. I EDC an ESSE 3 and I love it. I don't care what knife you have, there's nothing out there that can preform 4 times better than an ESSE for their intended purpose. But is a Bugatti 5 times faster than a Ferrari? Subjective.
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What is 4 times "better"?
Sometimes having the edge is 1000 fold more valuable than the qantifiable performance increase.

Picture 2 identical bicycle riders at a tour de france. One has a racing bike for $2000 and the other a racing bike for $20000. All the extra $18k bought was maybe a little bit more aerodynamic and a few grams less weight. Still since everything else is the same that expensive little performance increase will increase the probability of victory and thus might actually be worth its higher price which at first seemed crazy.

For knives some might engage in competitions with friends or in their minds. Some just like the peace of mind a small performance increase buys. Sure one could always carry a backup but if you can be more sure you don't have to you can save that worry and weight.

I paid a premium on bike components. Mostly so they last longer. Maybe a third higher durability at the same weight costed roughly double the money. Sounds stupid but if it means less downtime, longer and safer riding and having to carry less tools, it was worth it to me at that time.
 
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ChrisKnife said:
If you'll note - "Subjective"

Thanks,
Chris
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You said no matter what nothing can perform 4 times better.

4 times does not only mean 4 times more chopping before resharpening or destroying 4 more car frames which, you are right, seems unlikely.

Performance could be measured for example as in how often you would win a chopping contest. If you have two Lance Armstrongs and one with an only slightly better bike that one will win and probably even more often than 4 times more often.
Better knife, same idea.
That's why I was interested in what "intended purpose" meant exactly and why it can't be 4 times better because some things can be 4 times better and that also very objectively.
 
craytab said:
D.U.K. and cover, someone is trying to bait the rest of us into a flinging contest.
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Don't go calling Him into this thread... This one has been all over already and we don't have to go back Off of the tracks...
 
I'm not really willing to go into a deep discussion about what "intended purpose" means because like everything else, that is subjective. I was, in a nut shell, trying to say that from a performance stand point you'd be hard pressed to find a knife that will out perform an ESEE by four times when being used for its intended purpose. Which for me would be opening boxes, cutting electrical cord, minor food prep and other misc daily activities. I'm guessing that you're smart enough to have gathered all of that. ;)
 
ChrisKnife said:
I'm not really willing to go into a deep discussion about what "intended purpose" means because like everything else, that is subjective. I was, in a nut shell, trying to say that from a performance stand point you'd be hard pressed to find a knife that will out perform an ESEE by four times when being used for its intended purpose. Which for me would be opening boxes, cutting electrical cord, minor food prep and other misc daily activities. I'm guessing that you're smart enough to have gathered all of that. ;)
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To be honest yes I could have guessed that. Just wanted to be sure since its so subjective ;-)
 
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