Breaking blade while batoning

i do have to say that the first time i saw some 1 batonning on youtube the first thing that popped to mind was "wtf is that moron doing?!?!?!" now having more of an idea what it was all about i understand the need for having a knife that can handle it IF needed, not long after that i got my 6, and yes i have used it to break up a lil kindling, but here in western montana i realy dont have to worry about hard wood, the point being i try to use the tool ment for the job, wile im REAL sure my 6 can take every thing i could throw at it and and dull a lil i dont plan on going nutnfancy style and only useing a knife.
 
I've just learned of batoning this past year, from this forum I think, or maybe youtube.
Been on many many backpacking trips, with a small hatchet and a leatherman. If I had to, I'd just drag the damn tree over to the fire.
My point is, I've never "HAD" to baton. It's a nice option to have if it were necessary, but I won't do it just for the hell of it. I'm more concerned about the long term health of my tools.
Sure, it looks like the knife is taking the hard use, but what if you are depending on that tool after years of batoning, and it fails when you most need it?
I say, baton with common sense, only as needed(if needed), use wood as wedges to reduce stress on the knife, and take a chopper or axe when you can.
 
Obviously this thread has stirred some debate which is good. The only reason I have ever batoned with a knife in a survival class is to get kindling out of dry dead wood. Usually that type of batoning is pretty light so it's not a big deal. I have never used a knife to baton a 6 inch (or larger) diameter piece of wood in a survival class (I have done it testing knives. Testing for what I don't know). If you're doing that then you have WAY too much time on your hands since smaller wood is always easily found if there are cuts of wood that size laying around. So, I think batoning as a skill is pretty foolish once it goes past wrist size stuff. It's simply not needed.

Now, don't get me wrong, we're not going to call yopu a dumbass or idiot if you should happen to break one of our knives batoning with it. They're made to do it, unlike throwing them. But, if you really think about what you're doing batoning something that large, then it's really not the smartest thing to do with your primary knife. Just sayin...
 
i'm glad i've been following this thread. i never heard of batoning before looking into a good knife for survival and it seems like everyone bases what makes a good blade by how well it batons through wood. now, i'm no survival expert at all. i'm just getting into this stuff, so i'm impressionable. watching video reviews of all these knives, it seems like everyone just wants to baton some wood and get a fire going, so i'm glad to hear the other side of the story. i agree with the previous post about having your main tool fail on you when you need it most because of all the 'practice' you're doing. seems like a really bad idea. after reading this, i may try it once or twice to make sure i know what i'm doing, but that would be it. even if i don't try it though, i wouldn't say that it is a 'skill' that needs practice. it looks pretty easy in concept and i have no doubt that if i ever really needed to do it, i could do it without having practiced once.

'it batoned 999 logs and just snapped on that 1000th! you guys make great abusers!' :rolleyes:

i'm just kidding, i know you (unlike most companies out there) don't see batoning as abuse, whether you agree with it's validity as a survival skill or not. just another thing that sets you guys above the rest. ;)
 
"Batoning" is one of these techqiues that just caught on and now everyone wants to do it. Sort of like some new dance craze. Something I rarely see on these so called "survival" threads is someone using a knife as a drawknife, which has far more legitimate survival uses, in my opinion, than batoning.
 
I have never understood this batoning thing either. I have spent LOTs of time in the woods (ie several continuous months of the year in AK) and can say I have never done this once. Heck, I would not have even known about it if it was not for the internet.

If you think you would even remotely have the possibility of needing to split wood for some reason, you are much better off just carrying a hatchet which is actually designed for such things. Of course the counter-argument to this is that there is the extra weight of an additional tool. However, if the relatively small amount of extra weight in the form of a hatchet is a serious issue for you, you probably need to be in better shape so you have the ability to bring a proper set of equipment to the woods rather than just the minimalist bare minimum.

Heck, one could probably pack a hatchet and an Izula for less combined weight than some of these huge chopper/batoning blades you see now.
 
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Well as of now when I am in the woods I carry my RTAK II and a smaller utility type of knife to do other things with. I can see batoning wood when everything is wet and you are trying to start a fire so the inside or dry wood is exposed. I am no expert and never will be. I was just interested in the failure rate of this while in the field. Maybe there are alot better ways to get the dry wood to make a fire while it rains but this sounds like an easy way to expose some.
 
LWILLIAMS said:
Maybe there are alot better ways to get the dry wood to make a fire while it rains but this sounds like an easy way to expose some.
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True but I never saw the need for anything over wrist size. My point is batoning large size cuts has no value....none.
 
Maybe Jeff,
you come out with a nice s Axe all these batonning junkies would relax
 
To much work to split big wood, I agree six to eight on the maximum end of things to baton. Anything else would be to big to handle anyways.
 
OK, so I'm mildly confused. One of the great advantages to ESEE knives is the warranty... which is essentially a "worry-free" warranty against blade failure. If it fails during use, ESEE will replace it no questions asked...

But... Every time I see someone posting about not worrying if the blade fails during normal use(due to the warranty), all of a sudden the poster has a bad attitude. Isn't this part of the marketing of the knives? Can someone really have a piss poor attitude for using the knife as it is marketed?

I understand how batoning can be seen as abuse, and it's unnecessary in a survival situation... what percentage of users are in(or will ever be in) a survival situation?

For people who visit the ESEE website, no one would ever gather that anyone from ESEE considers batoning to be abuse. Pictures of several ESEE blades batoning through wood(even the izula) are plastered on the ESEE website. This indicates normal use to anyone who goes there.

This is the warranty I bought my RC blade with:
If you screw it up, break it, or cut it in two with a cutting torch, send it back and we'll replace it. Warranty is transferable. In other words, we warranty the knife no matter how many times it's been traded, sold or given away. We don't ask for a sales receipt, date of purchase or where you bought the knife - No fine print and no hassles. If you have a problem, contact us.
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The warranty above told me that ESEE(RC at the time) fully backs their product, regardless of the type of failure. I'm just not understanding the hostility towards those who mention using the warranty if the blade fails during use. Are we suppose to worry if the blade fails during normal use?

Sorry if this comes off as confrontational. I love my RC-3 and consider it as one of my favorite knives, but every time I see someone jumped for mentioning using the warranty it puts a bad taste in my mouth. I mean... we are talking about paying customers, right? Using the knife as it's being marketed? Why the hostility? Are you receiving a lot of knives where people have gone out of their way to break them?
 
What's your point? We warranty against everything, including space aliens. We even suggest using our knives for batoning, so what's stuck in your craw?
 
spydusse said:
I baton the shit out of my 4 with no problems and if u do u get a new one so why worry
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gytheran,

If you are referring to my response to this post as being hostile, it's not. I simply think it is a bad attitude: "oh well if I break it I get a new one." The warranty is in place in case a knife breaks. It's not in place just to break a knife. I don't think spydusse meant it that way but it sure sounded that way in the post, thus my response. I just think tools should be used as hard as required but always respected. Lack of respect doesn't change our warranty though....never has
 
i think you might be misreading what is being said. jeff doesn't see battening as necessary, yet it is fully covered.

the people that get jumped are the ones that actually abuse the knives (such as throwing them) and want to use the warranty. in that case, the knife was still replaced, which is another testament to the warranty, but the dude was called out for abusing the knives.

so, abuse is covered, but doesn't go without consequence. if you ask me, you still can't complain about that. i would expect nothing less.


besides, tagonnon purposely ruined a knife right in front of all of us and didn't ask for a replacement and jeff insisted. instead, they are donating the replacement to a servicemember... i'm not seeing a problem here. :confused:
 
Batoning is considered abuse by most. We don't consider it abuse. I PERSONALLY see no reason for it on anything past wrist size.

Sometimes being one of the owners of this company it seems like I can't have a personal opinion.
 
For example: my personal opinion from years of work in the wilderness is the ESEE-5 is a piece of shit as a wilderness knife. It's alright for what the SERE instructors designed it for but I wouldn't have the damn boat anchor hanging on my gear. I personally think anyone who feels they have to baton a 6 inch cut of wood to make fires is really lacking in fire building and woods experience. I personally think anyone who wears cologne to try and attract a female is gay.
 
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