Breaking knives

555 said:
I understand you are the local dealer for Quikrete.

Can this be covered under Warranty?:D
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If you'll send me the broken Necker and $57 for shipping, I'll be happy to re-encase the knife in Quickrete. However, I can only warranty the Quickrete as I'm not a dealer for Camillus.

With the bonding agents in place, you'll never know that the Necker is broken. I promise it will be just as useful as it was when you received it.
 
runningboar said:
Most soldiers don't carry a knife period and if they do it is usually a multitool or a POS bought at the PX, abused until it is destroyed and then replaced with another POS. This is my first desk job, in some ways rank sucks, but when I was a team leader I required my soldiers to have a knife and a flashlight everytime we rolled out of the motorpool gate I went so far as to make it part of my PCI checks. I started this because it was a constant aggravation for soldiers to always borrow mine, especially when I loaned out my spyderco police and it was returned with half an inch broken off the tip.

I understand that specialized tools are requried for different jobs, military, police, SAR, that's you skammer, however, here I am talking woodcraft and I do not recognize the use of sharpened pry bars in the woods. Not only do I not recognize them I think they are worthless weight in 99% of all woods work, there are much better tools for wilderness trekking, or for that matter general utility IMO.

One thing about this thread that people can't seem to get through their head is I am talking about a style of knife not the price. Gene Ingram makes some wonderful woods knives that are far from cheap and I constantly lust after them, however to say that their performance is 20 or 30 times better than a mora is not true. Chris
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I know what you mean. I got so tired of other troopies borrowing my knife or my lighter that, at one point, I bought everybody in my team an Opinel and a Bic.

When I left the combat MOS's, I had this boss, a bird who, luckily, had a sense of humor. Before we left on an Ex-Eval, he suggested (like a Colonel ever "suggested" anything) that I remove all visible knives from my person so as not to offend the evaluation team, a bunch of pogues from the 8th Army Hospital. I was a little miffed with him over this so, whenever anybody, him more than most, that normally borrowed a knife from me asked to, I just shrugged my shoulders. The next time we went to the field, he suggested that everybody should at least carry a pocket knife and he put a Ka-Bar on his pistol belt.

There are a lot of commands out there that are definitely not knife friendly.
 
Guyon said:
If you'll send me the broken Necker and $57 for shipping, I'll be happy to re-encase the knife in Quickrete. However, I can only warranty the Quickrete as I'm not a dealer for Camillus.

With the bonding agents in place, you'll never know that the Necker is broken. I promise it will be just as useful as it was when you received it.
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Won't the Becker rust inside the Quikrete when used for Bass fishing as a Boat Anchor?:eek: :D
 
runningboar said:
What did I say wrong? Gene makes cheap knives? I don't think they are cheap, the ones I used I thought were great.

As far as what people do, assholes and opinions, I have asked many times what people do to need these tactical thick ultra strong knives in the woods and other than skammer I haven't gotten an answer, and skammer doesn't count he is on a sar team for goodness sakes. The most I have gotten is I carry them for hypothetical situations don't really happen, if anyone like you says I carry them because I like them then that is fine, but there is no need to try to convince someone that they NEED them, or they are the best choice for the woods. Chris
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It just seemed like you were saying that Gene Ingram knives weren't 20 to 30 times better even though they might cost 20 to 30 times as much as a Mora. That's a price/performance claim and not a style claim.

Your second point is well taken. People have survived for centuries on carbon steel blades that weren't built like tanks. It's no secret I like my Busses, but for bushcraft, I like the thinner blades. To date, the best model Busse has made for this department is the ABA, which has a 4 1/2" blade (4" cutting edge) and is only .15" thick (just over 1/8").

Badger.jpg


Still, I do like some of my thick Busses. I'm not going to get into axe versus chopper. But for choppers, there is IMO a fine line between thick and too thick. Some thickness, however, gives the blade a good deal more momentum and a better bite when it comes to chopping cross grain. Also, the additional thickness is useful when you're splitting wood and whacking the spine with baton log.

It's actually easier to split wood with a thick chopper than with a small axe IMO. Note I didn't say splitting axe. I mean smaller axes like the SFA or the Scandanavian axe. Do you NEED to split wood in the bush? Well, you've already admitted it might be necessary in wet climates. But even in dryer climes, some split tinder can make fire starting a bit easier.

You and I agree more than you realize, but I'm still not going to poop on thick, overbuilt knives--especially the longer choppers (8" and longer). I think they have their place.

And smaller, thick knives have a place as well--maybe just not in the bush. Shorter, stout knives are good for prying car doors and then cutting seat belts. They're especially useful though if you should wind up with a boulder on your leg. :D :thumbup:
 
555 said:
Won't the Becker rust inside the Quikrete when used for Bass fishing as a Boat Anchor?:eek: :D
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I can actually leave the rear handle protruding from the 35 pound chunk of Quickrete. I'll rubberize the extrusion to avoid oxidation. That way you'll have a place to tie your anchor line.

In a pinch (lots of imported beer, no church key), you can skin off some of the rubber, and you'll have a 35-pound bottle opener that no one will steal. :thumbup:
 
Codger_64 said:
... folks expect to make up for their lack with a "bulletproof" tool.
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How do you feel about durability in general on "survival" equipment. What about a compass which would break if it was dropped? What about scope of work, the hull on canoes which can survive impacts off of rocks in rapids, etc. .

-Cliff
 
Guyon said:
I can actually leave the rear handle protruding from the 35 pound chunk of Quickrete. I'll rubberize the extrusion to avoid oxidation. That way you'll have a place to tie your anchor line.

In a pinch (lots of imported beer, no church key), you can skin off some of the rubber, and you'll have a 35-pound bottle opener that no one will steal. :thumbup:
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I think you have something there.

A Quikcrete Multi-Tool.:D

Can also be used as a Wheel Chalk.:D
 
Guyon said:
It's no secret I like my Busses, but for bushcraft, I like the thinner blades. To date, the best model Busse has made for this department is the ABA, which has a 4 1/2" blade (4" cutting edge) and is only .15" thick (just over 1/8").

Badger.jpg
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I like the looks of this knife a lot it looks like a real handy knife. I don't know if I like busses or not, I have never owned one. Everytime I am about to give in and buy one I talk myself out of it, I am not sure if I am being stubborn or I am actually right and my knives are very close to being as good for my purposes. And part of the problem with the busses is also part of the draw, it is hard to find the model that you like for anything like the original price, it's kind of like looking at MSRP on a Harley and then finding one for that price.:D

I think I would like to go to something like the Tom Brown school and see for myself the usefullness of a WSK or just to learn what I evidently have been doing wrong for all these years. I practically live in the woods, I have lived at a remote site in a 3 man tent for 7 straight months and I have never needed these kinds of knives. Now I am thinking that I might be missing out on something if so many people say that you do need "bulletproof", "stake your life on" knives. Chris
 
In my family we have two SPB's. My brother is a police sniper and he carries a Becker Crewman on his pack, mainly used for vandalzing people's property as he constructs his urban hides, that and a pair of pruning shears and he's set.

I use my BK-7 like a short, sharp machete to clear trails, cut vines, and construct shelters. I also use it to split wood during rainy season. I have it set up as a kit knife that includes my PSK and a one blade slip joint already mentioned. The bottom line is that it is there more for emergencies than anything else. I know I will tolerate it on my belt long term unlike a 16 inch machete.

In actual use I end up using whatever machete we have along as well as my Mora or NRGS neck knife. Now that I have the SBT I'll probably end up carrying a 14 inch machete as well. Yesterday I took my kids on a day hike and carried the SBT, and a 16 inch Tramontina. The whole time I was reminded as to why I don't like carrying a 16 inch machete on the belt. I wouldn't have any problem depending on these two.
Mac
 
runningboar said:
I like the looks of this knife a lot it looks like a real handy knife. I don't know if I like busses or not, I have never owned one. Everytime I am about to give in and buy one I talk myself out of it, I am not sure if I am being stubborn or I am actually right and my knives are very close to being as good for my purposes. And part of the problem with the busses is also part of the draw, it is hard to find the model that you like for anything like the original price, it's kind of like looking at MSRP on a Harley and then finding one for that price.:D
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For me, part of the draw of the knives is the warranty. That's what's bulletproof. The steel quality is excellent, and there is a wide range of designs. I also like the folks over in that forum. They know how to joke around and have a good time while still discussing the usefulness of the knives. Like any brand, there's some defensiveness and loyalty that surrounds the name, but it's tempered by a willingness to help any newcomer who's interested. And contrary to some impressions, people do use Busse knives. I use mine on a daily basis.

Also, there are plenty of Busse fans who would agree that the shorter knives are better in a slicer (thin) configuration.

You're right about finding them, however. It can be difficult if you have your heart set on one model. And yeah, the after-market prices aren't always easy to swallow either. Still, the knives do hold their value. If you can get one at the Busse original price, you can often use it for a while and maybe even sell it for more than you paid.


runningboar said:
I think I would like to go to something like the Tom Brown school and see for myself the usefullness of a WSK or just to learn what I evidently have been doing wrong for all these years. I practically live in the woods, I have lived at a remote site in a 3 man tent for 7 straight months and I have never needed these kinds of knives. Now I am thinking that I might be missing out on something if so many people say that you do need "bulletproof", "stake your life on" knives. Chris
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I think it's more a case of want than NEED. One could make the argument that, to survive, all you really need is some good rock and some flintknapping skills. Folks want to own what is perceived as the very best. Cars, boats, knives, watches, stereos, you name it... just human nature.
 
Guyon said:
I think it's more a case of want than NEED. One could make the argument that, to survive, all you really need is some good rock and some flintknapping skills. Folks want to own what is perceived as the very best. Cars, boats, knives, watches, stereos, you name it... just human nature.
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And there it is, right now screwing around at work instead of writing some evals that are due next week, I have on my belt a leatherman wave, a RAT3 and in my pocket is a german eye sodbuster. I cooked some deer meat and biscuits for breakfast this morning and cooked extra for lunch, I will probably use the sodbuster to slice the bigger pieces of meat. That is the only thing that I will use a knife for today, but I like the others and want to carry them. I would have a hard time trying to convince someone that I NEED more than the sodbuster but I sure like having them. Chris
 
runningboar said:
Now I am thinking that I might be missing out on something if so many people say that you do need "bulletproof", "stake your life on" knives. Chris
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Well, don't. You don't need a bulletproof knife, and neither do I. No-one does. No, not even SAR guys. I've done search and rescue myself, and I find it quite confusing how a SAR crew might be so under-equipped that they would have to drill through ice using just a knife, and out of all the possible reasons simply to get water. Don't American SAR teams carry water with them? Or proper tools for drilling through hard surfaces, perhaps metal or concrete like in car doors or buildings, or wood, rock and ice like you would encounter in the wilderness?

The people that tend to want a bulletproof knife are typically those least adept in using knives. This is a generalization, and obviously does not apply to all, and in a forum like this, I would be surprised if most didn't know exactly how to use their knives, bulletproof or no. But I digress. Fact remains that, generally, the more time one has spent in the wilderness the less likely one is to rave over indestructible, bulletproof, super tactical knives for "high-speed operators" and extreme individuals. :barf:

All right, with that said, do note that I'm not saying "bulletproof" knives do not have uses. Heck, I sure wouldn't mind a knife that would never in any conditions break, even if I used it to build a skyscraper or hammer and dig my way through a hundred feet of permafrost. But I don't need such a knife, and I sure as hell aren't going to pay thousands of dollars for one. Someone else may, and there's nothing at all wrong with that. Most of us are collectors, right? We collect things we like and are fascinated by. It doesn't have to be extremely utilitarian or "make sense." But to say that you need such an item to survive or do well is not only ridiculous but an outright lie.
 
What good is the warantee if you're just past the back of nowhere and your knife breaks?
Warantees are good.
Great warantees are better.
But when you're out on your own they don't mean much till you get home.
 
Ebbtide said:
What good is the warantee if you're just past the back of nowhere and your knife breaks?
Warantees are good.
Great warantees are better.
But when you're out on your own they don't mean much till you get home.
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Your point is well-taken.

But warranties are a pretty good indicator of a company's devotion to quality in the first place. Companies that don't produce a quality product cannot afford to stand by a top-notch warranty. They'd go out of business in a hurry.

I can count on one hand the number of Busses that I've seen (here at BF) go back for warranty work. Most of those have been cases where people were trying to push the knife to its limits. Point is: if the warranty is iron-clad, chances are it's a pretty good knife to start with.

Buck, Swamp Rat, and Victorinox also offer lifetime warranties on their knives, and they stand behind them. I can also say I've had a good experience with the Case warranty deparment. That's one of the reasons I like the knives from these companies.
 
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