Buck 119 baton failure

gedlicks said:
Interesting thread and discussion.

After reading many of these type of discussions on knife failure due to batoning I decided to just buy a quality hatchet for cutting branches and such. My problem is that I have a hell of a time gutting and skinning
the elk and deer and other game animals with my hatchet. Can anybody help me figure out why I am having so many problems. I have called the hatchet company and they will not stand behind the hatchet as a poor
skinner and help to rectify the problem.

I have solved the batoning problem but cannot skin anything at all with it. What a piece of junk. It is also very uncomfortable and heavy on my belt.

I feel a good quality hatchet should do a good job dressing field game. It just makes a big mess. I do not feel this is my problem or responsibility but the hatchet companies.
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I managed to sharpen up my Fiskars hatchet to the point where it shaved hair nicely....lol
I bet you could use it to process some game... :D
 
The only knife I know that is made for batoning allowed by the manufacturer is the Puma German Expedition Knife.

Haebbie

PumaExpeditionKnife.jpg


PumaExpeditionKnifeAusschn.jpg
 
Forgive me, but I figure I'm still a complete novice with knives.

Would a Scandi or convex grind knife be better suited to batoning? I would think that a hollow ground knife would bind in the wood, and would require some lateral wiggling of the knife to get it loose. I would worry that the lateral wiggling trying to free the knife would stress it a bit too much?
 
You learned a valuable lesson,it could have been avoided,but what if you were in an emergency situation and needed that knife to baton some firewood quickly?it would suck sitting out in the bush with a busted knife in a bad situation.i would not expect the blade to break there,maybe in the handle someplace,but not like that.i once dropped a110 on my basement floor that broke just like that,dropped maybe 2 feet by accident.this was A420 hc blade..and I've pounded an old 440c 2dot through a nail without failure,go figure.
 
Yeah, just don't frickin baton with a knife unless it's clearly suitable for that, how hard can it be? A thick bladed full tanger, like an ESEE 5 or a big Busse group knife can take it, but otherwise, use an axe. Especially old fashioned knives aren't made for it. The Randall knife in the Guy Clark song of the same name was broken off while being stuck in a tree.
 
and even a knife "designed" to be baton'd can and will break.
Batoning is knife abuse.
Kephart, Nessmuk, and the rest never baton'd their knives, they used the proper tool for the job at hand.

Hate if you like, but that is the truth.
 
afishhunter said:
and even a knife "designed" to be baton'd can and will break.
Batoning is knife abuse.
Kephart, Nessmuk, and the rest never baton'd their knives, they used the proper tool for the job at hand.

Hate if you like, but that is the truth.
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Go ahead...just TRY and break this by chopping or batonning:

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It cannot, and will not break. ;)
Hate if you like, but that is the truth. :D

Differentially hardened O1 tool steel, 1/4" thick with a full convex grind. :thumbup:
 
Two thoughts on this

It is a hunting knife that was used under circumstances that normally should not be used under. But what if the user was "Batonning" through a Moose brisket or pelvic bone? Ive heard the 119 is a great camp knife.

Al Buck used to advertise a 124 being pounded through a bolt and remain unscathed. Buck has built a reputation on hard steel and good quality materials. I dont believe chopping through wood should be done when there are better tools available, but should not fail under this kind of use either.

Just my two cents
 
Come on though, a big fat knife like the 119, broken by a soft wood club striking the spine? I could accept damage to the edge as a victim of abuse, but snapped through the blade, well forward of the tang, through the strong axis of the knife?

This knife was tempered too hard, as was the one referred to above that broke when dropped on a concrete floor. A file might break on a concrete floor, but a knife?

I hope OP will send this back to see what they say, and I'd be interested to hear from the Buck mod about Buck's stance on batonning.
I wouldn't baton myself, except in extremis without a better chopper, but I'd be pretty disappointed if my only cutting tool failed me in such a pinch.
 
I used my 110 to split some really small stuff, I'm talking like 1/4" square and batoned it and broke the lock. I sent it to buck with a note stating that I abused it and please let me know the cost to fix. They sent it back fixed with no questions asked.
I want to get a fixed blade ad want to be able to split tiny stuff, we've been practicing making fire with no matches so I need to make small stuff, if not a 100 series what should I get?
 
I would get either the Selkirk or Punk. IME, a flat or convex grind is far superior for general wood craft, including batoning light stuff.

Alternatively, I suppose you could look for the very, very old Buck fixed blades, back when they (appear in the pictures) to have a saber grind, which was more common back in the 50's and 60s. But those are collectors' items, not woods tools!!

Both the Selkirk and Punk are designed for this sort of thing.
 
I love my 119 (circa 1990) and that story breaks my heart ... but it is only a knife and is easily replaced for short $$

Soapbox time: I'm of the opinion batoning for firewood is ridiculous. Yes, I hear the argument that it's an easy way to get to dry wood to help start a fire. I still don't buy it. Much better to scavenge and whittle to get dry wood to start a fire. I think it's a trick to do with a knife because we are convinced it somehow speaks to the quality of the knife... plus it's kinda fun... but I don't believe it's a needed skill. If I were in a real survival situation, I don't think I would be risking my blade doing something like batoning through logs.
 
When I was in the Navy in 1988, we were returning from deployment, and one of the guys in my division asked to borrow my Buck 110 for some work he was doing....turned out e was removing fancy-work from a railing and had broken the tip of the blade wile prying the stuff off. another guy took it to the machine shop and basically filed it back to a point. I still have the knife and on one hand want to send it to Buck for either repair or replacement, I may have to pay a fee as it was done by misuse, although the misuse was done by someone else.
 
DavidLPackham said:
When I was in the Navy in 1988, we were returning from deployment, and one of the guys in my division asked to borrow my Buck 110 for some work he was doing....turned out e was removing fancy-work from a railing and had broken the tip of the blade wile prying the stuff off. another guy took it to the machine shop and basically filed it back to a point. I still have the knife and on one hand want to send it to Buck for either repair or replacement, I may have to pay a fee as it was done by misuse, although the misuse was done by someone else.
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Hey there shipmate. This post reminded me of this 110 I carried for quite a bit of my time in Uncle Sam's Canoe Club. Though mine hasn't been abused other than frequent sharpening with perhaps poor and aggressive technique I've thought about sending it back to Buck for a reblade. I only recently found her after I guess 10+ years as I had stashed it in an old toolbox I hadn't opened in years. Having her back after such a hiatus I decided that a new blade would forever remove the history that she and I share so I think she'll stay as she is. Might use her some more and even touch up that edge now and then when needed though much more gently than before. Something to consider anyway. Thank you for your service.

Before photos after finding her.
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After some "at home" TLC. The sheath turned out lots better than I expected it to. Glad I didn't get her rebladed.

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Steve6387 said:
Soapbox time: I'm of the opinion batoning for firewood is ridiculous.
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<tilting my soap box on end, for greater height>

It's not that batoning is ridiculous. It's that the whole focus on fire building as a necessary outdoor skill is, if not ridiculous, at least way over stated.

A good part of my time out doors is spent up above treeline. Fires simply don't belong here.
Untitled by Pinnah, on Flickr

Other times, I'm moving fast and light and just don't want to futz around with a fire when I'm at the limit of my endurance. A simple alcohol stove is just so much easier.
Stanley Windscreen by Pinnah, on Flickr

The situation is similar on most winter camping trips I do. We often attempt to cover miles and land in camp tired and a white gas stove like an Optimus or Svea 123 (my favorite) is incredibly reliable. I've used mine down to -15F and would and have bet my life on that stove. I've also twice dealt with party members who've fallen into winter streams and with all due respect to Jack London stories, it's something that can be managed without a fire thanks to modern synthetic clothing, decent sleeping bags and a reliable stove (and the skill to use it in adverse conditions).
100_0077 by Pinnah, on Flickr

</soapbox>

This said... There ARE trips where I rely on a fire.

Some of the backcountry skiing trips I do require a light enough day pack to allow for fast skiing to cover the miles while carrying enough gear to keep somebody alive if an accident happens and they're forced to spend the night in the backcountry. In New England where I ski, these sorts of routes are usually along rivers in the hard woods where dead fall wood is plentiful.
Untitled by Pinnah, on Flickr

On trips such as these for the past few years, I've stared to carry a light wood stove. This is an Emberlit (on an easy day trip with the kids).
Hot Chocolate by Pinnah, on Flickr

A stove like the Emberlit offers an advantage to a liquid fuel stove in that I can keep it burning all night long. Running it efficiently means sectioning dead fall that is 1" to 2" thick and splitting it.

There's no way in the world I'm carrying a hatchet for this. Just way too heavy and doesn't section wood.

I'll carry a light folding saw and 5" fixed blade. This combination is lighter than my Svea 123 plus white gas and lighter than any hatchet based approach. (Sorry, this is an Old Schrade - not a Buck).

Winter fire tools by Pinnah, on Flickr

A word about that old Schrade. Thin blade stock with a convexed sabre grind. Splits small wood beautifully (as does my Mora Companion HD).

All of this (whew) to say that batonning does have its place and some knives are designed in a way to do it better than others. If I had to replace my old Schrade (a) I would be sad and (b) I would look at either the Punk or the Selkirk.

I surely do wish Buck would do a 100 series knife with a 5" sabre ground drop point. Or maybe put a sabre grind and plain edge on the Endevour. IMO, Buck is loosing sales to ESEE, Bark River and Becker by not offering enough flat or convex ground fixed blades.
 
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