Buck 119 baton failure

Joe58 said:
Little off topic story. My father always carried a Buck 110 & a Western for deer hunting. I must have been around 15 and my father was dressing a deer when another party of hunters strolled up to visit. One gentleman was watching Dad get through the rib cage and made the comment that he finds it easier if you hit the spine with a rock or small hunk of wood to help split the rib cage. And he starts looking around for a rock.

My father stopped what he was doing and looked up at the guy over the top of his glasses (always a bad sign - my kids say I do it too) and said he'd punch somebody in the mouth if they took a rock to the back of his knife. My father was a very kind and generous man, but don't f@@k with his gear or tools. He always said "It's a proud craftsman who takes care of his tools". To him, he counted his knives as part of his tools.

Still remember the look on the guy's face. But it was a good life lesson for me. And I still have his old Western, my brother has the Buck.
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Good post and thank you.

Cate
PS: My late Mom used to give that LOOK over the top of her eyeglasses and so did some other people in our family. It is NOT a good sign. I do it myself.
 
I think that a person should use a camp axe or a hatchet for specific tasks instead of using a knife. I do not think that the Buck knife mentioned here was meant for that purpose.

Don't use a knife when you should be using an axe. Use the proper tool for specific jobs. This goes for any type of tool or task at hand.

With that said, IF some knives (?!? - I do NOT know the brands of them.) are designed and meant for some survival tasks due to their DESIGN, MATERIALS and ORIGINAL INTENT... that is another matter. Hard core military and/or survival knives or even if some person made it super, super strong in a special design.

I think that this Buck knife was abused but I am NOT a knife expert.

I think that it is sad that it got ruined too.

I do not own a Buck like that and if I did own one I would NOT use it like that whether it was brand new or an older knife or in the family.

You could always CALL Buck and ask them for their opinion.

I did not put up the telephone numbers or email addresses but you can look it on the MAIN BUCK WEBSITE.

I think that this Buck was abused but your mileage may vary. NO problem.

Best wishes to you. You learned a valuable lesson. Remember it and move on!

Cate
 
There's a test to destruction video, yeah that one, that shows a Buck Nighthawk, also 420HC, doing fairly well, it was doomed from the start but it didn't go down quick. The grind on the Buck Special blade is quite different from the Nighthawk, more profoundly hollowed for best cutting. So nmorris, I'm glad you did the dirty deed and hope you stay ahead of the pitchforks and torches because now if I have to make a dash to the outback maybe I'll take the Cattaraugus 225Q instead of my lovely 119.
 
This thread is slowing down so I will make some observations. One - when you get to comparing other manufactures knives to Bucks, and start describing those knives in great detail, I start thinking what should a moderator do. "Slight' mentioning of other knives is tolerated, but if you want to talk about a certain non-Buck knife in great detail, go to their forum area to do it. Two - Some discussion brought to light why would you baton in the first place. If you want to test the toughness of a Buck all well and good, but lets see some calculated/repeatable tests. Also if you have a decent condition Buck and it fails from fairly decent use, I would guess Buck would like to hear about your situation and issues.

Personal opinion section (I get to have one even if I am moderator) -I have gutted and partially skinned a elk with a Buck 303 Cadet, but have also done the same with a SAK. I did that as a lark and ended up going to other knives to do most of the work. Yes, knives with a 's', it is easier to grab another knife and keep going as darkness approaches than stop and sharpen. I don't think I would try to sharpen a hatchet sharp enough to gut and skin a large game animal. Nor am I going to try and make a log cabin with a pen knife. I am starting to be an ole fart I guess and just do not see the need to carry a knife that will be a one knife does all. I think we have gotten this idea from the movies, where some event will cause us to run for the woods, or sewer. with just a handful of equipment and where we need a knife to hack the fangs out of a dragon. Or maybe the baton crowd never got to be in Boy Scouts where we built fires with every sort of device you can think of and built towers, tripods, brush arbors, and even bridges over streams with baling twine, scout knives, saws and hatchets. You learn real quick what works in real life..
It sounds a little trite I know, but you have to be prepared. If the dragons show up, As I run for the sewer I will grab my 119, my Swedish hatchet, folding saw and a Buck pocket knife or two..... 300
 
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300Bucks said:
. I think we have gotten this idea from the movies, where some event will cause us to run for the woods, or sewer. with just a handful of equipment and where we need a knife to hack the fangs out of a dragon. Or maybe the baton crowd never got to be in Boy Scouts where we built fires with every sort of device you can think of and built towers, tripods, brush arbors, and even bridges over streams with baling twine, scout knives, saws and hatchets. You learn real quick what works in real life..
..... 300
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X2, Rambo didn't need to baton
 
One word: Axe.

If you want to baton with a knife, get an ESEE 5...that knife would never break and, owning one, I think batoning is probably the only thing it's good for.
 
155440 said:
My point was that it didn't break from said abuse. No knife should just snap like that one did from a couple stick whacks. IMO it broke due do a flaw from the factory whether that be heat treat or something else. Because of that, Buck should be obligated to replace his knife, regardless of what caused it to eventually break.
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I'm a little late seeing this thread. Haven't been spending as much time as I normally do here... I was a little surprised to see this kind of thread in the Buck s/f.

Should the knife have broken with a "couple light whacks" ? No, probably not. Should it have been used in this manner in the first place ? No.
This is a real pet peeve of mine. I never understood why people feel the need to use a knife in this manner. I know people claim, I need to know if the knife will stand up in a survival situation.
That is a sorry excuse imho...

The number of people that spend time deep in the woods or back in the wilderness is very small. Most people can walk out of a situation if need be.
I'm 53 years old and have spent countless days deep in wilderness areas hunting, sometimes in severe winter weather, and I have never felt like I needed to use a knife to chop up firewood.
There are always enough wood laying around to start a fire and keep it going for a long time. It really doesn't need to be that difficult. You aren't chopping up firewood in small pieces to fit in a wood stove in your house....

That said, like everyone, I have done plenty of stupid things over the years, and I'm sure I will do plenty more. I do however hope the OP doesn't try to pawn his mistake off on Buck in hopes they will replace the knife.
We all know Buck has truly outstanding customer service and truly does care about their customers, but there comes a point where people have to accept responsibility for their actions....

Rant over :D
 
I still think Buck should replace it. And I think they probably would. OP seems to have lost interest though.
 
scrteened porch said:
I still think Buck should replace it. And I think they probably would. OP seems to have lost interest though.
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I'm almost certain they would replace it, even if he was upfront about how it happened. I've only used Bucks customer service twice, and they have gone WAY beyond what any reasonable person could expect.
Like any company they have their issues, but I don't think anyone would argue that they don't truly care about their customers. They have proved it time after time...

One time Joe took care of something that I commented about, but had no intention of trying to get them to warranty it. You won't find that kind of service very many places...
 
For the axe only contingent...

BU0108WAS.jpg


Different places. Different styles. Different choices.

Personally, I try to avoid fire making. But there are knives made for battoning. Buck makes several. Hoodlum, Punk and Selkirk are included.
 
338. I'm with you. As I've spent weeks in wilderness country at a stretch. Many times one week a year. Usually 10-20 miles from the trail head and a road. Thinking and planning ahead help. I've not used my knife to mallet wood. (model 120) Plenty just laying around. I've used my saw or hatchet a lot to reduce the log size or length and
build a shelter. They work real well for this. Mallet activity is in vogue right now and makers are responding. I doubt this urge will overtake me. As a result a good 4" blade
is what I'm leaning toward. DM
 
David Martin said:
338. I'm with you. As I've spent weeks in wilderness country at a stretch. Many times one week a year. Usually 10-20 miles from the trail head and a road. Thinking and planning ahead help. I've not used my knife to mallet wood. (model 120) Plenty just laying around. I've used my saw or hatchet a lot to reduce the log size or length and
build a shelter. They work real well for this. Mallet activity is in vogue right now and makers are responding. I doubt this urge will overtake me. As a result a good 4" blade
is what I'm leaning toward. DM
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Absolutely David. Saws and hatchets work amazingly well :D I guess I can see makers wanting to cash in on the fad. If that's what customers want, I would make them too.
It never made sense to me beating on a knife to split up wood, but it certainly makes good business sense
 
nmorris said:
Had a little fire in the back yard the other night, and decided it would be a good chance to try batoning some dry fire wood with my Buck 119. This was possibly pretty foolish on my part, since the knife is clearly not designed for that. It broke about a half inch up from the hilt, not half way through the first log.

I believe this knife was at least 25 years old, as my father had had it since before I was born. Also might be worth noting that I was using a softwood branch as a baton. Not a good first batoning experience.

Anyway I just thought I would share for anyone interested, I have seen some threads in the past where people were wondering how the 119 would do for batoning. Below is the link to a pic I took of the broken knife, let me know if anyone has trouble seeing it!

http://s288.photobucket.com/user/nmorris/library/Buck 119?sort=3&page=1
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Good for you man, trial and error at its finest. No one was hurt, you learned something, and all you broke was a replaceable production knife. Not bad at all!
 
A stretch of common sense well beyond intelligent limits. But all for the movement. Way to go... DM
 
David Martin said:
338. I'm with you. As I've spent weeks in wilderness country at a stretch. Many times one week a year. Usually 10-20 miles from the trail head and a road. Thinking and planning ahead help. I've not used my knife to mallet wood. (model 120) Plenty just laying around. I've used my saw or hatchet a lot to reduce the log size or length and
build a shelter. They work real well for this. Mallet activity is in vogue right now and makers are responding. I doubt this urge will overtake me. As a result a good 4" blade
is what I'm leaning toward. DM
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Well said David. Mallet activity is absolutely in vogue right now. The axe has been around for centuries and can do what a knife cannot. For some reason the current trend is splitting your wood with a knife and you'll have a fire that burns?

Ive built many great fires in the dead of winter, snapping off dry douglas fir limbs and jackpine pitch as starter.
 
Never heard of " batoning" before, but then I've only been carrying and using knives for sixty years now.
And so it goes...
 
Until I read this thread, I never realized how important batoning is for survival. I have a lot of wood that I need to get ready for winter and I have tried three different models of Buck knives but so far I haven’t had much success. It must be my technique and maybe proper technique varies from one model to another. Any help will be appreciated.

IMG_6374.jpgIMG_6376.jpg
 
WIL TERRY said:
Never heard of " batoning" before, but then I've only been carrying and using knives for sixty years now.
And so it goes...
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I too never heard of batoning until I joined bladeforums except in spinning a metal wand with rubber ends up in the air and catching it.

After reading about it several times on the forum I finally googled it and watched it on a video.

I was a trapper for years in the 70's and 80's so most of my winters were spent in the woods and although I never found myself in any type of what I would call a survival situation there were many times that
could have turned bad. I always had a pocket knife and a hatchet with me. The closest I have ever been in a survival situation was on an elk hunting trip with my Father and brother in law when we got snowed in for
a week in the bottom of the snake river canyon. Not once did any of us discuss batoning for firewood. I just do not see it as an absolute in any realistic situation. I did have an uncle who died a few years ago after
getting his truck stuck in the wilderness. He made a calender and made notes on it. He lasted for 2 months before he passed away from starvation and hypothermia. Batoning with a knife would not have made any difference. He gathered firewood by other means. He also suffered from dementia.

Here is a link to the news story. http://www.kval.com/news/local/121800724.html
 
Samon said:


Perfect acceptable practice imo. And like mentioned already, there is a method to doing it right.

But, Buck knives are not strong enough for hard use, despite what the fan boys think. The steel is too brittle, the tangs too thin, the grind all wrong and the handles too weak.

When used for their designed purpose though they are alright, still better options out there but not necessarily at the same price.
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BUCK 420HC is not brittle , in compare to other high carbon stainless steels , but 420HC is brittle than some steels that with higher impact toughness.

what wrong with BUCK knives ? mostly they are design for hunting , and i think BUCK did right for hunting knife .

batoning as a "skill" the player should know that there are risks that break your knife , even those knives designed for batoning.
even applied right skill , there are also exist breaking risks . looking at those BUSSE ESEE FK & CS knives , there are lots of breaking reports out here.

if you failed in a hard situation , in which you only have limitied things , do you really think batoning is a good way to make fire woods ?

from my what i exprienced in the woods , there are lots of small braches , they are more friendly for setup fire , normally there is no need to batoning big logs .


buck knife company has good fame for years and for generations over the world, mostly they are well made , and with high quality , but there are unavoidable lemons here . If a buck 119 have no invisible defects , i think normal foce batoning is not a problem , 119 is a stout stury hunting knife , very cool. nothing wrong here .

dingy
 
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