Buck 119 baton failure

And it continues....I don't know what is stupider, Batoning or the fact that I wasted another 10 minutes of my life reading this thread.......
 
nmorris said:
To answer ocnLogan, this was indeed my first ever time attempting batoning.
Also, it was light batoning , I have no picture of the wood as I burnt it.
It was a very poor decision in hind sight, I'm new to this and tend to learn things the hard way. I immediately regretted what I had done, would have been nice to pass the knife on some day , but I will say this particular knife didn't have much sentimental value to either me or my father. I imagine he will be much less sad about this than I am . I have axes and hatchets that i usually use for this type of thing, but had just "learned" about batoning and figured I'd try it. Curiosity killed the cat this time.
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if just tender batoning make that failure , possibly there is a defect in the steel , such as invisible crack , when you applied the force of batoning , the crack enlarged .

if a normal buck 119 , it can withstand more punishment , you can search through the net , some guys treated 119 as a survival knife.
 
155440 said:
My point was that it didn't break from said abuse. No knife should just snap like that one did from a couple stick whacks. IMO it broke due do a flaw from the factory whether that be heat treat or something else. Because of that, Buck should be obligated to replace his knife, regardless of what caused it to eventually break.
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that was my thought . buck 420HC is not a brittle steel to the entire knife industry , there are more brittle knife steels .
 
300Bucks said:
This thread is slowing down so I will make some observations. One - when you get to comparing other manufactures knives to Bucks, and start describing those knives in great detail, I start thinking what should a moderator do. "Slight' mentioning of other knives is tolerated, but if you want to talk about a certain non-Buck knife in great detail, go to their forum area to do it. Two - Some discussion brought to light why would you baton in the first place. If you want to test the toughness of a Buck all well and good, but lets see some calculated/repeatable tests. Also if you have a decent condition Buck and it fails from fairly decent use, I would guess Buck would like to hear about your situation and issues.

Personal opinion section (I get to have one even if I am moderator) -I have gutted and partially skinned a elk with a Buck 303 Cadet, but have also done the same with a SAK. I did that as a lark and ended up going to other knives to do most of the work. Yes, knives with a 's', it is easier to grab another knife and keep going as darkness approaches than stop and sharpen. I don't think I would try to sharpen a hatchet sharp enough to gut and skin a large game animal. Nor am I going to try and make a log cabin with a pen knife. I am starting to be an ole fart I guess and just do not see the need to carry a knife that will be a one knife does all. I think we have gotten this idea from the movies, where some event will cause us to run for the woods, or sewer. with just a handful of equipment and where we need a knife to hack the fangs out of a dragon. Or maybe the baton crowd never got to be in Boy Scouts where we built fires with every sort of device you can think of and built towers, tripods, brush arbors, and even bridges over streams with baling twine, scout knives, saws and hatchets. You learn real quick what works in real life..
It sounds a little trite I know, but you have to be prepared. If the dragons show up, As I run for the sewer I will grab my 119, my Swedish hatchet, folding saw and a Buck pocket knife or two..... 300
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nothing i can get from your words .
 
I have to wonder if batoning would be such a big deal for (some) folks if they had done more camping, hiking, and woods-traveling when they were teenagers (Scout-age).

Early exposure to real woods and real campfires and real woodcraft skills, and basic tools (hatchet) being learned, might have take some of the dire necessity out the survivalist appeal of batoning. Sure, in a desperate situation, anything goes. But the point of learning all that stuff early is so that you don't get into desperate situations.

/rant over
 
buck 119 is a stout big hunter , very well made, it is not designed for batoning , but i do think it will withstands some normal baton .

OP's 119 fails really unexpected ， so there must be wrong :
1. OP with abusive force and this is not a honest report;
2. this knife is a lemon.

and i am likely to get the second one.

i hope that BUCK will replace that one , and do a really serious observation to the knife , and officially announce results.
 
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AreBeeBee said:
I have to wonder if batoning would be such a big deal for (some) folks if they had done more camping, hiking, and woods-traveling when they were teenagers (Scout-age).

Early exposure to real woods and real campfires and real woodcraft skills, and basic tools (hatchet) being learned, might have take some of the dire necessity out the survivalist appeal of batoning. Sure, in a desperate situation, anything goes. But the point of learning all that stuff early is so that you don't get into desperate situations.

/rant over
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This is a well thought out point. DM
 
AreBeeBee said:
I have to wonder if batoning would be such a big deal for (some) folks if they had done more camping, hiking, and woods-traveling when they were teenagers (Scout-age).

Early exposure to real woods and real campfires and real woodcraft skills, and basic tools (hatchet) being learned, might have take some of the dire necessity out the survivalist appeal of batoning. Sure, in a desperate situation, anything goes. But the point of learning all that stuff early is so that you don't get into desperate situations.

/rant over
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RBB, I'll see your rant and raise it. I just generally don't see the point of backcountry fires at all. They muck up public lands and, for me, take up too much time and energy. What I get amazed at is seeing thread after thread (in the Outdoor sub-forum) on fire making skills and seeing relatively few on developing stove skills. This is confirmed on the rare occassions of camping near others where I've seen poor stove skills on firey display. Twice I've had to remove MSR stoves in full melt down mode from a mountain hut where somebody who didn't know their stove managed to turn it into a fire bomb.

Regardless, I'm no more going to carry a heavy hatchet into the backcountry as I am an anvil. Ditto for a big chopper.

But on the other hand, I'm not going to insist that others follow my no fire approach to backcountry travel and I'm not going to insist that they use a hatchet if and when they need to chop, limb and split wood. Different folks, different woods and different results. In particular, the machete and other large choppers are used around the globe. Even Buck is now offering their red tool made for chopping and splitting. Shrug.

I will say this... the Emberlit stove changed my opinion on battoning with a knife. It runs better in wet conditions with split wood and a 5' blade does that just fine. No way I'm adding a hatchet to the kit when a knife is much more versatile and does the job just fine.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/pinnah/12050851855/in/album-72157639970780023/

I would pick the Selkirk above the 119 though.
 
pinnah said:
RBB, I'll see your rant and raise it. I just generally don't see the point of backcountry fires at all. They muck up public lands and, for me, take up too much time and energy. What I get amazed at is seeing thread after thread (in the Outdoor sub-forum) on fire making skills and seeing relatively few on developing stove skills. This is confirmed on the rare occassions of camping near others where I've seen poor stove skills on firey display. Twice I've had to remove MSR stoves in full melt down mode from a mountain hut where somebody who didn't know their stove managed to turn it into a fire bomb.

Regardless, I'm no more going to carry a heavy hatchet into the backcountry as I am an anvil. Ditto for a big chopper.

But on the other hand, I'm not going to insist that others follow my no fire approach to backcountry travel and I'm not going to insist that they use a hatchet if and when they need to chop, limb and split wood. Different folks, different woods and different results. In particular, the machete and other large choppers are used around the globe. Even Buck is now offering their red tool made for chopping and splitting. Shrug.

I will say this... the Emberlit stove changed my opinion on battoning with a knife. It runs better in wet conditions with split wood and a 5' blade does that just fine. No way I'm adding a hatchet to the kit when a knife is much more versatile and does the job just fine.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/pinnah/12050851855/in/album-72157639970780023/

I would pick the Selkirk above the 119 though.
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I agree with your point about back country fires, Dave. (Obviously, survival changes the context and accordingly the rules. But still.)

For me, fires in the backcountry are proper only in places where there's a firepit, or the impact is minimal (beach fire using driftwood). In short, burning wood is for fun and companionship, just as back in Scouts. If there's hot food on the menu, then I'm bringing a stove (Svea 123). It's reliable. To repeat, it's reliable. I've not fiddled with the Emberlit -- sounds good, glad it works -- not for me.

As others have noted, I think the OP had: a damaged knife OR a lemon that slipped through OR the account isn't saying everything. Can't tell, but I'm taking #2 as the most likely. (With regard to batoning, in recent years it seems to have assumed an importance way, way beyond its practical usefulness or necessity. I can't help thinking this comes mainly from lack of backwoods experience, by which I mean real necessity, not a contrived-to-test-it experience.)

Anyway, the Selkirk looks fine. But I'd promptly get rid of those HUGLY multi-color zebra scales (looks like plywood!) and replace with real wood -- dark walnut, rosewood, etc.
 
there are some knives out there that you can baton with in emergency situation only but not a skinner. Emerson has some folders I wouldn't hesitate to baton with if I had to but not for fun or to see if it can do it. But live and learn no biggy
 
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