Buck marksman lock test

I’ve seen people use a screw driver as a pry bar, chisel, or a punch, all of which it was never intended to be used for and they fail. If you are using your knife in a way that puts pressure on the spine in such a way that the lock fails it isn’t the knifes fault it’s the users fault. Just because some knives took the abuse and got away with it doesn’t mean the ones that didn’t were faulty or defective. This really grates on me because I use tools for a profession and I’ve seen some very poor usage and then the person abusing the tool blames it on the tool design when it fails. There is a proper way to use it and I’m certain Buck put the marksman though testing and they wouldn’t release a knife that would be a faulty design. I’m still shaking my head as to why you think this spine whacking test is relevant to the intended use.
 
Lesknife said:
I’ve seen people use a screw driver as a pry bar, chisel, or a punch, all of which it was never intended to be used for and they fail. If you are using your knife in a way that puts pressure on the spine in such a way that the lock fails it isn’t the knifes fault it’s the users fault. Just because some knives took the abuse and got away with it doesn’t mean the ones that didn’t were faulty or defective. This really grates on me because I use tools for a profession and I’ve seen some very poor usage and then the person abusing the tool blames it on the tool design when it fails. There is a proper way to use it and I’m certain Buck put the marksman though testing and they wouldn’t release a knife that would be a faulty design. I’m still shaking my head as to why you think this spine whacking test is relevant to the intended use.
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every one uses tools for their profession, whether its a hammer or a computer they are both tools. And just because you do not understand spine whack test, doesn’t invalidate them
 
It’s due to the design.

The strap literally needs to be lifted to release the blade.

Holding the knife upside down and striking it against a static object is jolting the strap down enough to release the blade.

I would imagine if you were working on your back and holding the knife with no pressure on the strap and inadvertently bashed the spine on a bar while swiftly pulling the knife towards you it maybe could unlock?
 
it was just testing. I wanted to make sure it was best results we could get and the op took the time to appease me and I appreciated that. some dont see the value of it at all for their normal cutting use, understandable.

it would be neat to see a weight load on it static rather than shock impacting on the lock. like demko does with the tri-ads. hanging weights from the blade. never seen anyone do that with this lock before. course I'm not doing the work, so easy for me to say.:)

I can see this is turning from interesting results and discussion into defensive positioning. not a good place its going and heading towards.

I leave all to continue discussing, just wanted to say what I was seeing.
 
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jbmonkey said:
it was just testing. I wanted to make sure it was best results we could get and the op took the time to appease me and I appreciated that. some dont see the value of it at all for their normal cutting use, understandable.

it would be neat to see a weight load on it static rather than shock impacting on the lock. like demko does with the tri-ads. hanging weights from the blade. never seen anyone do that with this lock before. course I'm not doing the work, so easy for me to say.:)

I can see this is turning from interesting results and discussion into defensive positioning. not a good place its going and heading towards.

I leave all to continue discussing, just wanted to say what I was seeing.
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you are right i will stay on topic of the thread for now on. Ill try to do some weight hangs later today i know the demko test your talking about, ill try to replicate them as best i can and report back
 
I've had a knife close on me when the spine hit something, so to me it's relevant. I was chopping at something in close quarters.
 
jbmonkey said:
it was just testing. I wanted to make sure it was best results we could get and the op took the time to appease me and I appreciated that. some dont see the value of it at all for their normal cutting use, understandable.

it would be neat to see a weight load on it static rather than shock impacting on the lock. like demko does with the tri-ads. hanging weights from the blade. never seen anyone do that with this lock before. course I'm not doing the work, so easy for me to say.:)

I can see this is turning from interesting results and discussion into defensive positioning. not a good place its going and heading towards.

I leave all to continue discussing, just wanted to say what I was seeing.
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i was able to hang a 50lb plate from the knife with no issues but i didn’t feel safe with my setup and adding more weight so i stopped lol
 
brownshoe said:
I've had a knife close on me when the spine hit something, so to me it's relevant. I was chopping at something in close quarters.
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then this testing tells ya you are safe to chop away in close quarters. as when done with hand on lockbar it wont close.
 
Mr.Conservative said:
i was able to hang a 50lb plate from the knife with no issues but i didn’t feel safe with my setup and adding more weight so i stopped lol
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yeah good info. thank you. yeah dont do it youll destroy your knife sooner or later. its discontinued now so ya won't be able to replace it easily. more importantly I dont want to see ya get hurt.
 
Mr.Conservative said:
i was able to hang a 50lb plate from the knife with no issues but i didn’t feel safe with my setup and adding more weight so i stopped lol
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you would have to have a lot more weight to take it to the failure point.

As far as spine whacks, manufacturers have to take this into account due to a concept of Foreseeable Misuse. In other words, chairs were not made to be stood on, but people will stand on them, so you have to account for that in your designs as Foreseeable Misuse.
 
jux t said:
That’s simply not true. Most lockbacks from reputable makers, and all triad locks, will not fail that type of spinewhack out of the box.

As @Bigfattyt said, stabbing/piercing often applies negative load on the blade. He mentioned himself and his brother have been cut due to failing locks. I myself have had a minor injury from an accidental spine whack while working in a very confined area.

This particular lock I know nothing about. Sounds like it could be a matter of adjusting it.
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I'm referring to any buck 110 folding hunter ,go ahead and try a spine whack test and come back here and tell me it's not true.I wasn't referring to any other brands by the way,I stated any folding Hunter and assumed since this is the Buck forum folks would know which folding Hunter I was referring to.

I've done a fair amount of testing with folding hunters over a 30 year period,so I think I have a good idea of what they can/ can't do before failure occurs.
 
brownshoe said:
What's your technique?
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The key to defeating most liner/frame lock seems to be varying the force and speed of the blow. Many will fail with a single moderate or heavy blow as seen in the video above. Others can be defeated with extremely rapid, low force blows. You just have to play around with the speed and force to see what will make it fail. It's kind of like using a bump key/hammer to open a lock.
 
I think with any folding knife regardless of the locking mechanism you can expect some manner of force or action to cause it to release. If it can be manipulated by hand to unlock and open there’s likely a inadvertent action to replicate the release action. The thing I learned at a young age was to not misuse or trust a knife lock in an unorthodox manner but to only use the cutting edge and cut away from yourself and anything you don’t want to cut. My dad taught me this just the same as teaching me to treat any gun as if it were loaded even a toy gun. Good habits can prevent mishaps and failures but the unexpected or unseen can still happen.
 
Mitchell Knives said:
The key to defeating most liner/frame lock seems to be varying the force and speed of the blow. Many will fail with a single moderate or heavy blow as seen in the video above. Others can be defeated with extremely rapid, low force blows. You just have to play around with the speed and force to see what will make it fail. It's kind of like using a bump key/hammer to open a lock.
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Thanks for your answer & introducing me to bump keys. Makes me look sideways at the front door and be thankful for my loaded pit bull and mongrel :). The pit's just for looks though, battle cropped one-eyed rescue, she's useless as a watchdog.
 
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Mr.Conservative said:
Ill start this off by saying i know alot of people dont care for spine whack test. However due to buck saying this was the strongest lock they ever tested I figured i would test it out a little.

I’ve been carrying my sk blades gray ghost variant of the marksman for quite some time, and i love it. I have had no problems with the lock in real world use and always felt confident of the lock. But today i was talking lock up with my brother on his ZT 0640 and how i thought the frame lock would slip so we decided to spine whack some blades on a 2x4 clamped in a vice. None of the hits were very hard, the ZT closed just about every hit. I tried the marksman and it closed every time with very little effort. I was pretty shocked. Lock up is still rock solid with no play in either direction. I do put some stock in to spine whack test on harder use knives, and with bucks claims of the lock being so strong is kind of upsetting, i also whacked a 722 spit fire and it had no problems, never closed.

if anybody would like a video of this let me know, ill post it to youtube.
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ZT has long been known to have weak locks that fail, regardless of the hype they put out.

I think the spine whacks are a good indication of the lock's integrity, as are whacks on the pivot on the other side where it folds. The knife should not close, period. People can say what they want about lock tests, and make any excuses, but the reality is a fail could mean a lost finger.
 
Bigfattyt said:
I have had a jolt close a knife in my hand in use. Cutting hoses in very tight space. On a cubic hydraulic press. Push cutting and sawing a hose at an awkward angle and the knife spine contacted the steel side of fhe press. Cut my fingers. Not badly.

Different liner lock I was topping boxes at a job. Poked the knife into cardboard, and it closed on my thumb. Slight download pressure on the spine caused the liner lock to disengage.





Spine walk tests cause many style knives to close.

It is damaging to liner locks and frame locks.

I do check my liner locks and frame locks and back locks to check that the lockup is tight.

I have Triad locks that won't fail a spine walk test....but I don't need to bang my edge on anything to double check that.

So I've been cut when a liner lock failed with light negative pressurez and also a separate liner lock with a slight jolt to the spine.

My older brother was cutting thick sidewall rubber ( trying to pierce to initiate the cut).. he had to have surgery to reattach his tendon.

I've seen more than a few other cuts from liner locks and frame locks.

I have retired liner locks for the locks repeatedly disengaging with light spine pressure.
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This is EXACTLY why we discouraged liner locks and frame locks on our small ranch. They will fail and fail badly. I've seen them fold over with almost no pressure when piercing. I've seen them fold when sawing into something like a hose and on the forward stroke it fails and the user gets cut. I do not usually buy them. In fact, I have only two in my entire collection, I think.

Another issue is the detent. My wife will not even touch a frame or liner lock after being nearly cut because her knife opened in her purse.
 
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