Buck quality

[Hair]

I did not say that none of Buck's knives can perform better than higher priced knives. I think you misunderstood.

The only time I mentioned performance I was refering to P.J. Tomes, not a Sebenza.

Buck's knives are not the best performing knives in the world. I think that is a given. Yet, I think Vassili would disagree.

But we are talking about quality. Don't fixate on one small point I made about one maker and try to make it the main issue or apply it to all expensive knives.

Again... you have said nothing that disagrees with me.

Look at Vassili's posts and then look at mine. Are you really disagreeing with *me* and not *him*? You may not agree with every little detail of every post I make... but do you seriously think what I am saying is more deserving of an "I disagree" than what he is saying?

 

[nozh2002]

I agree and would like to point out that this is really all I am saying.

No you are saying -

Buck has never made a knife even close to what those makers and companies produce. They don't even try to. Compeating with P.J. Tomes is not what Buck is trying to do. Buck's knives are far cheaper, and no where near as high in quality or performance.

And this is just rediculos! 880 compete Strider folders Easy and Strider has nothing to compete with 888.

BTW it was Paul Bos who heat treat Strider blades.

Thansk Vassili - "Buck fanboy".

 

[bbcmat]

Buzzbait - it took a severe reprofiling and a re-heat treat from a 3rd party craftsmen to make my S30V Sebenza outcut my mid 80's Buck 110 (425MOD).

Once it was all done though - WOW. Now I have two nice tools.

MAT

 

[Hair]

And this is just rediculos! 880 compete Strider folders Easy and Strider has nothing to compete with 888.

BTW it was Paul Bos who heat treat Strider blades.

Thansk Vassili - "Buck fanboy".

The Buck/Strider knives do not compeat with real Striders. They are a totally different class. Different materials, different manufactoring process, different price class.

They may be 80% of what a real Strider is at 20% of the price, but they are not the same. They are not designed to compeat with Strider. They are a cheaper, though inferior, alternative.

If you feel the Buck/Strider knives as very close to the quality and strength of real Striders, well, fine.

But that isn't really my main point.

You said that Buck's knives are top quality and that no one can make a better knife.

That is just absurd. You may not feel Strider makes better/higher quality knives, but I doubt you honestly feel that Ralph, Mayo, Onion, Tomes, Smith, Walker, Moran etc... do not make better/higher quality knives.

Also, I would like to point out that I was refering to knives made by Strider and Dwyer, not their semi-production models. I said "companies" because some of the makers I listed are companies (such as CRK and WHK).

I never said that Paul Bos does not heat treat Strider's blades (actually, he doesn't any more, but yes, he did).

 

[Buzzbait]

nozh2002 - As much as I'd like to agree with you, the Striders are far better in quality than their Buck counterparts. From the samples that I've handled personally, it isn't even a close race.

as far as

Buck has never made a knife even close to what those makers and companies produce.

I believe that Buck is, in many ways, able to make a knife, through its custom knife shoppe, that easily competes in the area of performance. Not quite there in the fit and finish, in most repects, but definitely there in performance.

 

[Hair]

Again, I only brought up performance in a specific comparison with P.J. Tomes who makes some Scagel-type fixed blades that are just brutal performers. And yes, there are people that use them. And no, Buck does not make anything that can perform as well as they do.

"Performance" is not "quality".

A Buck 119 will outchop a Bill Ruple or P.J. Tomes slipjoint. But a Buck slipjoint will not cut better than a P.J. Tomes slipjoint.

Great performance is had by knives costing a lot, and very little. Performance and cost, as well as performance and quality, are hardly related. Performance also comes in different forms. A crappy knife with a very thin grind will out-slice a thicker knife that is of higher quality. But the thicker knife will be tougher and may hold an edge better. Your BG-42 Buck may hold a better edge than your Sebenza, but does it cut better in every way? Will the lock hold up as well (yes, I consider this an area of performance). Now, I was never saying that a Buck cannot perform better than a Sebenza. Never said it. But Buck is hardly the top performing knife maker. I also never said they were the worst.

 

[KeithAM]

I also have a few of Buck custom shop knives with BG-42 blades, and would agree that they are excellent quality. I'd also point out that they are available to anyone from the Buck website, and they are not expensive -- they start at about $80 IIRC, and even stag handles are only about $120. That's competative with the typical tacticals at similar prices. You can also send your $30 Wally World 110 in and have it rebladed in BG-42 for $35.

Buck also offers a pretty nice line of Alaskan Guide S30V knives at Cabellas, and 154cm knives a Bass Pro. Bucks standard line, available from many online stores, have upgraded models with 154cm blades (recently switched from ATS-34). My point is that if you want a Buck with premium steel, they're readily available.

As for quality, the ones I've bought new have been on par with what other major brands offer. I mean, aside from CRK, I've had knives with both fit and finish as well as function issues with most of the major brands. The only complaint I've had with Bucks is that sometimes they come with a gritty action, a problem that's solved by working dish soap into the action and then flushing it with hot running water.

Anyway, Bucks are fine in my book.

 

[Buzzbait]

"Performance" is not "quality".

Performance and cost, as well as performance and quality, are hardly related.

No, performance is not quality, but performance is one aspect of a knife's quality, and is probably the most important aspect in most knives. Thus they are very closely related.

Buck has never made a knife even close to what those makers and companies produce.

Sure they have, in the aspect of performance.

 

[nozh2002]

You said that Buck's knives are top quality and that no one can make a better knife.

That is just absurd. You may not feel Strider makes better/higher quality knives, but I doubt you honestly feel that Ralph, Mayo, Onion, Tomes, Smith, Walker, Moran etc... do not make better/higher quality knives.

Also, I would like to point out that I was refering to knives made by Strider and Dwyer, not their semi-production models.

I think when we talk about Buck we talk about knife manufacturers, not about all World knives including top artistic knives etc. It was pretty natural assumption for me to made and I did not expect you starting comparing it with knifemakers one of the kind knives. I think this is absurd to start talking about Buck mass production being not as handmade by custom knifemaker.

You jump on me based on my phrase -

"The quality is on top - for all this years they defenetely learn how to make knives. For sure nobody can make knives better then Buck - same, but I doubt that better."

And then listed this rediculos mix of random manufacturers and custom makers. Fehrman, Busse, Bark River, Cris Reeve, Strider is not better in quality then 888 (I don't have Strider and CR but handle some)! They make good knives but not better. William and Henry - it is jewelry mostly, small gentleman knives it is hard to compare them to let say 880 - different type of knives. But assembling quality, seel quality etc is not better.

I think you own me some apologies.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Sinkolen]

Hey thanks i guess, for telling me about the quality. When i started this thread, i was just asking if Buck knives were of pretty high quality. I probably won't own a custom made knife for a very long time. So if you could take a break from arguing (seriously this is starting to be like some stupid teenage blog thing) could you tell me.

1 Buck knives, are they good for the price?
2 Would you depend on one if you needed to, and I do not mean "does it compare with your kickass custom made knife"

I know some of this may have been answered but I didn't want to read through all of that.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Hair]

No, performance is not quality, but performance is one aspect of a knife's quality, and is probably the most important aspect in most knives. Thus they are very closely related.

Performance is performance. Quality is quality. A Lotus Elan will outperform a Mercedes, but the Mercedes has higher quality. The two terms mean different things.

I think when we talk about Buck we talk about knife manufacturers, not about all World knives including top artistic knives etc. It was pretty natural assumption for me to made and I did not expect you starting comparing it with knifemakers one of the kind knives. I think this is absurd to start talking about Buck mass production being not as handmade by custom knifemaker.

Now you are changing your story.

You said "all makers" and "top quality". You never said "Buck is as good as any other production knife company." They aren't, by the way, but you didn't even say that. You said "nobody can make knives better then Buck", and that they are "top quality". These statements are untrue, and I called you on it. If you only meant to compare Buck to mass production companies, you should have said so. Your mistake, not mine. And if that was really your intent, then you would have said "I was talking about other mass production companies, not world-class knifemakers" in your very first reply to me, instead of continueing to argue your point.

You went on to say "When Buck decide to make top quality knife - nobody can do better. However, usually Buck not doing it." and "880 quality is out of questions. One of the best." This was after I listed superior knifemakers to Buck knives. You said nothing of keeping comparisons to mass production companies.

And then listed this rediculos mix of random manufacturers and custom makers. Fehrman, Busse, Bark River, Cris Reeve, Strider is not better in quality then 888 (I don't have Strider and CR but handle some)! They make good knives but not better. William and Henry - it is jewelry mostly, small gentleman knives it is hard to compare them to let say 880 - different type of knives. But assembling quality, seel quality etc is not better.

I was not a rediculous mix. It was a list of knives that are higher in quality than Buck. The list had a lot of variety since there are a variety of makers that are superior to Buck. Strider and William Henry do make knives with better quality than Buck. I am sorry, but the tolerances and fit are just better. Of course... why would a William Henry with diamond and gold inlays and near-perfect fit be of a higher quality than a mass produced Buck Strider... Silly me.

I think you own me some apologies.

You are very funny.

I am glad to see you swallow *most* of your foolish statements, though. Maybe in the next few posts you will swallow them all.

 

[Hair]

Hey thanks i guess, for telling me about the quality. When i started this thread, i was just asking if Buck knives were of pretty high quality. I probably won't own a custom made knife for a very long time. So if you could take a break from arguing (seriously this is starting to be like some stupid teenage blog thing) could you tell me.

1 Buck knives, are they good for the price?
2 Would you depend on one if you needed to, and I do not mean "does it compare with your kickass custom made knife"

I know some of this may have been answered but I didn't want to read through all of that.

Thanks for the help.

We have already answered you. You were answered in the first few posts, including my first post (the first paragraph). They are good for the price.

Thanks for trying to defuse an arguement by name-calling and argueing. Good job. Very effective.

After you were answered, another discussion broke out. I am sorry that offended you. Sorry for taking time out of my day to answer your question and suggest some Bucks that are good for the money and highly respected in their price class. My bad.

 

[Buzzbait]

1 Buck knives, are they good for the price?
2 Would you depend on one if you needed to, and I do not mean "does it compare with your kickass custom made knife"

Certain models are very good for the price, but not all models. With most every production company, you have to do your homework. No company has a hit with every model they produce. I would definitely depend on my BG-42 steel Buck 110, made from the custom shoppe, if I needed to.

 

[Sinkolen]

We have already answered you. You were answered in the first few posts, including my first post (the first paragraph). They are good for the price.

Thanks for trying to defuse an arguement by name-calling and argueing. Good job. Very effective.

After you were answered, another discussion broke out. I am sorry that offended you. Sorry for taking time out of my day to answer your question and suggest some Bucks that are good for the money and highly respected in their price class. My bad.

I'm sorry and what "name" did I call you again? Obviously I am not as mature as yourself nor as intellectually advanced. I should've bothered to make about 10 posts and taken "time out of my day" to argue about whether or not buck knives competes with whatever the hell you were talking about.

Perhaps you should go to hell. No don't answer, I know what you're oging to say I wouldnt' want you to take more time out of your day.

Thanks

Edit, oh yes, and how again was I arguing to stop an argument? I suppose how you'll respond to this is that I am now arguing with you. Hah, sorry I tihnk I've wasted more time.

 

[Hair]

I'm sorry and what "name" did I call you again? Obviously I am not as mature as yourself nor as intellectually advanced. I should've bothered to make about 10 posts and taken "time out of my day" to argue about whether or not buck knives competes with whatever the hell you were talking about.

Perhaps you should go to hell. No don't answer, I know what you're oging to say I wouldnt' want you to take more time out of your day.

Thanks

I suppose "So if you could take a break from arguing (seriously this is starting to be like some stupid teenage blog thing)" is not "name-calling" per se, but you know exactly what I meant. Thanks for nitpicking.

You asked a question. You were answered. Another discussion broke out as a direct reply to a post made in this thread. You do not have to read it. You were already answered.

I do not understand why you felt the need to name-call... I'm sorry... "insult" anyone by saying the discussion is similar to a stupid teenage blog.

I can tell that you hate arguements. Which is why you continue to turn a perhaps heated discussion on knives into insults and tell people to go to hell.

Hey guys, stop argueing and answer the question that has already been answered. Stop discussing knives, you children. Go to hell.

Yeah, makes a lot of sense. You are a true diplomat and not hypocritical at all.

 

[Sinkolen]

I suppose "So if you could take a break from arguing (seriously this is starting to be like some stupid teenage blog thing)" is not "name-calling" per se, but you know exactly what I meant. Thanks for nitpicking.

You asked a question. You were answered. Another discussion broke out as a direct reply to a post made in this thread. You do not have to read it. You were already answered.

I do not understand why you felt the need to name-call... I'm sorry... "insult" anyone by saying the discussion is similar to a stupid teenage blog.

I can tell that you hate arguements. Which is why you continue to turn a perhaps heated discussion on knives into insults and tell people to go to hell.

Haha, So tell me again how i was trying to stop your argument by arguing, you haven't answered. I'm not stopping it anymore, and I'm not trying, or arguing.

Oh yes, and I do not understand why you felt the need to assert your overwhelming knowledge upon others that didn't see it the same way as you.

Right well, forget it. You are right, my questions were answered, and I'll be on my way now. I hope you achieve your goal of boosting your ego today.

 

[Sinkolen]

Hey guys, stop argueing and answer the question that has already been answered. Stop discussing knives, you children. Go to hell.

Yeah, makes a lot of sense. You are a true diplomat and not hypocritical at all.

I don't remember telling you to stop discussing knives. And I do make alot of sense. I'm not hypocritical. I dont remember starting an argument aobut knives. I remember telling you to stop arguing and I remember you immediately on my ass about how I too wasn't as intelligent as yourself.

Anyway like i said in my last post, I'm going to go, but I felt the need to respond to your edit.

 

[Hair]

Haha, So tell me again how i was trying to stop your argument by arguing, you haven't answered. I'm not stopping it anymore, and I'm not trying, or arguing.

You basically told us to stop argueing and answer your question. You did this by saying our discussion was similar to a stupid teenage blog. Not a very effective way to calm the situation.

Oh yes, and I do not understand why you felt the need to assert your overwhelming knowledge upon others that didn't see it the same way as you.

I am not trying to assert anything. Vassili said Buck made knives as good as anyone, and that no one makes better knives. He is wrong. Yes, it is a subjective thing, but realistically, Buck knives are no where near the top. I am a huge Buck fan and am not trying to further some agenda or come off as an expert.

Right well, forget it. You are right, my questions were answered, and I'll be on my way now. I hope you achieve your goal of boosting your ego today.

I am not trying to boost my ego. Why do you assume this? I like to talk about knives. I like to read about knives. That is why I come here. You seem to be making a lot of judgements about me... What did I do to you again? Oh yeah, I answered your question about Buck knives' quality and then entered a detailed discussion about Buck knives versus other maker. How would that do you any good at all... silly me.

All of the B.S. aside, what you should do is read the posts and learn something. I don't care what you think of me. I am not trying to boost my ego or make people like me.

Your question has been answered. Vassili made some comments on Buck that I feel were incorrect. I feel they could give you an unrealistic and untrue impression about Buck's quality. My posts explain that Buck is the an example of the best quality possible in knifemaking.

It would have been a bad thing for you to leave this thread thinking that Buck was top quality.

You can hate me or think I am a child, but again, all of the crap aside, all I am doing is giving my opinion. You might as well read the discussion and use it to learn more about knives. That is one of the best things about this forum and the little arguements that break out. You may hate one side, or both, but you will always be learning. I know I have.

I don't remember telling you to stop discussing knives. And I do make alot of sense. I'm not hypocritical. I dont remember starting an argument aobut knives. I remember telling you to stop arguing and I remember you immediately on my ass about how I too wasn't as intelligent as yourself.

You told us to stop our discussion and answer your question. It had already been answered and our discussion could only serve to further benefit you.

You are a hypocrit for resorting to tactics even more insulting and childish to my own to tell me how childish I was being.

I never implied that you were not as intelligent as I am.

 

[Cougar Allen]

Gentlebeings, let's all try to remember we're talking about knives here, and not about other people. If you want to talk about other people you can go to the Whine & Cheese forum and do that.

 

[nozh2002]

I don't really have anything to add - discussion is turned away. So my point - Buck knives are top quality especially their top models, but there are no too much top knives they are making. I suggest you to get Buck knife with premium steel and PaulBos mark - they will perform really well. Remember 80% of custom knives heat treated by him so in terms of edge holding etc it will be same as many custom.

Best place to get some - Cabela's. They have wide line of Buck with CPM s30V blades and pretty afforadble.

Here mine:

Also try custom shop - they made BG42 variant of 110.

Thanks, Vassili.