Buck quality

[Hair]

I only posted again because someone else did... and said I was pig headed or something. I had forgotten about this thread.. err... horse. I often get blamed for "keeping a thread going" when all I do is reply to what other people have said as a direct responce to me. How are they less to blame than I am?

Stop this noncence! You just make youself more and more rediqulos.

How so? By not thinking Buck makes the best knives in the world and that there are knifemakers that can make superior products? Yeah, I am a total idiot for not being able to see that Buck's grinds are the most even, and that their tolerances are closer than CRK or DDR. If someone quotes me, and calls me a name, I will not reply, defend myself, and further the "noncence". Least I make myself look "rediqulos".

I know my spelling isn't perfect either, and English *is* my first language, but if you are going to try and insult me, please do a better job than that.

 

[Hair]

In exactly what way is the craftsmanship lacking?

It isn't that it is lacking. It is that it does not represent the tip top of what a human can do.

My Custom 110 has fine tolerances, even grinds, no blade-play, perfect fit-and-finish, everything about it is as good as anyone could ask for.

No, it isn't as good as anyone can ask for. Many collectors demand better. I am sure it is "fine", but are the tolerances as good as any other knife? No. Are the grinds as even as any other knife? No. Is the fit and finish as good as any other knife? No.

The materials are excellent: nickle-silver has proven itself a million times over on many a custom made knife.
The asian water-buffalo horn scales are beautiful and strong as well as grooved for grip.
The BG-42 is outstanding judging from all of the cutting I have done, and Paul Bos is a legend in the knife industry for his heat-treatment.
And the performance of the Buck 110 is simply incredible.
The grind and blade-design are fantastic.
I've handled and used and owned many many knives from many different makers, including some custom made knives, and the Custom Shop Buck 110 is in no way inferior in terms of quality.

I never said the materials were inferior.

If they did not then Buck would not keep them on the payrole.

No. If they did then they wouldn't be making knives at Buck, they would be making knives that sell for far more and are more highly respected.

And the Buck 110 has been used hard for over thirty years by sailors, soldiers, cops, ranchers, hunters, warehouse workers, bikers, cowboys, plowboys, construction workers, carpenters, plumbers, and folks from all walks of life.
It has proven itself a million times over.

Does this make it the best? More people use Ford than Ferrari, does that make Ford better?

Well grip is definitely subjective since everyone's hand is different.
But the 110 is one of the most comfortable knives I have ever used.
I have cut for hours with the 110 and I've never had it slip from my hand or cause hotspots or blisters.

It is true that what is more or less comfortable is subjective, but few people find the 110 to be a good example of good ergos.

The 110 design is one of the most copied designs in the knife world because it is that good!

It is rarely copied any more, and rarely by brands that are not junk. There have since been many far superior designs than the 110. Knifemaking has progressed. Even Buck has progressed and produced better knives.

I would say that the basic Buck 110 sets the benchmark for an American made high quality knife at a price that the average Joe can afford.
And Buck's customer service is outstanding as well.

I agree. But I was taking issue with Buck's being called "as good as anyone can do". Pricepoint is irrelevant.

I think you're confusing your "preferences" with "better" or "higher quality".
My Spyderco Pacific Salt is easier to open with one hand than my Buck 110, and it weighs less too.
But that does mean that the Pacific Salt is of superior quality than the 110.
It's just different.
The H-1 steel on the Pacific Salt is not better than the BG-42 of my custom Buck 110, just different.

No, I am not confused at all. But I am speaking generally. What is better, a light knife that can be quickly opened and closed with one hand? Or a heavy knife that is diffilcult/impossible to quickly open with one hand? Yes, it is subjective, but quality on the whole is subjective.

 

[allenC]

Quote:
Originally Posted by allenC
If they did not then Buck would not keep them on the payrole.

No. If they did then they wouldn't be making knives at Buck, they would be making knives that sell for far more and are more highly respected.

Maybe you should talk to some of the knife makers here in the forum.
Many will tell you that it aint easy to support a family as an independent knife maker.

It is true that what is more or less comfortable is subjective, but few people find the 110 to be a good example of good ergos.

I think you're way off base on this one.
In fact, I have never known anyone who did not find the 110 to be very comfortable in the hand.
The weight of the 110 does put some folks off, but certainly not the ergonomics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allenC
And the Buck 110 has been used hard for over thirty years by sailors, soldiers, cops, ranchers, hunters, warehouse workers, bikers, cowboys, plowboys, construction workers, carpenters, plumbers, and folks from all walks of life.
It has proven itself a million times over.

Does this make it the best? More people use Ford than Ferrari, does that make Ford better?

If you're looking for a work vehicle, yep, a Ford truck beats a Ferrari everytime.
And if you need a vehicle to haul the entire family around, yep, a Ford car or SUV beats a Ferrari everytime.
And the Buck 110 has been around for over thirty years because it works!

What is better, a light knife that can be quickly opened and closed with one hand? Or a heavy knife that is diffilcult/impossible to quickly open with one hand?

You mean to tell me that you have trouble quickly opening and closing a 110 with one hand?
Heck, it's so easy even my mom can do it and she's 72 years old.
In any event, I prefer the weight and rigidity and comfort of my 110 over the lightweight and flexible handle of the Pacific Salt.
But to each his own.

 

[JPD1998]

Allen,

I didn't start this thread, but you and Buzzbait did me a favor, I couldn't decide between ordering finger grooves or not on a custom 110.

After seeing both pics , I'm going to get the finger grooves when I order my custom 110.

I re-discovered Buck earlier this year when I bought an Alpha Hunter and then a Strider collaboration on sale at Bucks site. Both are excellent knives , well made and worth the price I paid.

 

[Sinkolen]

Back yet again to argue huh hair? Well have fun. Anyway, Allen, nice knife. The handle is made outo f Asian Waterbuffalo Right? But what part of an asian waterbuffalo is it made of, or am I just confused?

 

[allenC]

Back yet again to argue huh hair? Well have fun. Anyway, Allen, nice knife. The handle is made outo f Asian Waterbuffalo Right? But what part of an asian waterbuffalo is it made of, or am I just confused?

From post #60:

The asian water-buffalo horn scales are beautiful and strong as well as grooved for grip.

So I'm guessing they're made from the HORNS of the water-buffalo.

Check out these pictures:
http://www.huntingreport.com/trophy_images/small/162.jpg
http://files.blog-city.com/files/aa/32997/p/f/aa_waterbuffalo_2005_04_227.jpg

 

[Azrael31]

Wait a minute, I wasnt disagreeing with you, more criticizing the way you reacted to a simple ignorant statement.... I know very well that buck isnt the best, and only insulted you because I thought they way you spoke to whoever it was made you come across that way...I added the last part in defense of the other guy because he may not even be able to afford a better knife to compare his bucks to. I ask again, what exactly do you do with those knives that you cant do with a buck? geez....Although I still dont get why you brought up all those customs as they are in an entirely different league. I got a dozier from my grandfather who passed away recently, and own some other higher end production stuff, so I do have a pretty good idea of why they are better....its just that Ive never done anything with them that I couldnt do with a buck. Oh well, i dont really care either way.

 

[Sinkolen]

Wait a minute, I wasnt disagreeing with you, more criticizing the way you reacted to a simple ignorant statement.... I know very well that buck isnt the best, and only insulted you because I thought they way you spoke to whoever it was made you come across that way...I added the last part in defense of the other guy because he may not even be able to afford a better knife to compare his bucks to. I ask again, what exactly do you do with those knives that you cant do with a buck? geez....Although I still dont get why you brought up all those customs as they are in an entirely different league. I got a dozier from my grandfather who passed away recently, and own some other higher end production stuff, so I do have a pretty good idea of why they are better....its just that Ive never done anything with them that I couldnt do with a buck. Oh well, i dont really care either way.

Don't worry about it. The guy simply likes to argue.

Lol the HORNS duh... Sorry dumb moment there. I wish they would make customs of other knives. The buck solo would be cool if you could customize it.

 

[Buzzbait]

So I'm guessing they're made from the HORNS of the water-buffalo.

At least you didn't have to explain what part of the walrus your oosik handled knife came from.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Paul Bos who working with Buck is most respected expert in Heat Treatment - 80% of custom knives are heat treated by Bos.

The United States isn't the world. How many Russian knifemakers send their blades to Paul Bos, how many who forge knives send them to Paul Bos? There are probably far more people in Nepal forging khukuris than there are custom knifemakers in the US alone. The amount of custom knives heat treated by Bos is way under 1%. However it would be fair to say that a lot of well respected knifemakers do use Bos and if you buy a Buck with the same steel as a custom heat treated by Bos then you can expect similar abilities from the steels.

-Cliff

 

[Azrael31]

Good, im glad to see im not the only one who thinks that sinkolen. haha I love how far from the original question these things get....

 

[dullone]

Some things are better left unsaid

 

[Keith Montgomery]

I was recently given a 110. It had a problem. When open, everything was fine, but when closed the blade was so loose it rattled. I took the knife back for an exchange and the only other one they had in stock had the exact same problem. Also, the second knife didn't have nearly as nice a finish as the first. I decided to get a different knife.

 

[Hair]

Azrael31- I did not bring up all of those expensive customs. Someone else compared Buck to every other knife in the world, including (but not limited to) all of the knives I listed. He brought them up. I was pointing out how silly the comparison was, not making it myself.

Sinkolen- I didn't bring this thread back. Someone else quoted me, insulted me, and misunderstood my arguement. I replied to them.

Maybe you should talk to some of the knife makers here in the forum.
Many will tell you that it aint easy to support a family as an independent knife maker.

Maybe you should talk to some of the most renowned knifemakers in the world, because they don't have trouble selling knives. You said the guys at Buck must be the best knifemakers because if they were not, they would be fired or never hired. You are wrong because the best knifemakers in the world don't need to work for Buck, and probably don't want to.

I think you're way off base on this one.
In fact, I have never known anyone who did not find the 110 to be very comfortable in the hand.
The weight of the 110 does put some folks off, but certainly not the ergonomics.

So I guess a log is the most ergonomic knife ever...

If you're looking for a work vehicle, yep, a Ford truck beats a Ferrari everytime.
And if you need a vehicle to haul the entire family around, yep, a Ford car or SUV beats a Ferrari everytime.
And the Buck 110 has been around for over thirty years because it works!

Ferrari was an example, and I was talking about Ford cars. It could have just as easily been comparing the Porsche SUV to a Ford SUV. Apples to apples, remember? Buck is popular. Popular does not mean better. Ford is popular. That doesn't mean it is the best. Many knife designs have been around a long time, and still work today. That doesn't mean there have not been improvements in the cutlery industry.

You mean to tell me that you have trouble quickly opening and closing a 110 with one hand?
Heck, it's so easy even my mom can do it and she's 72 years old.
In any event, I prefer the weight and rigidity and comfort of my 110 over the lightweight and flexible handle of the Pacific Salt.
But to each his own.

I can open a 110 with one hand, but it is not as easy as, say, a Griptilian. I have never tried to close a 110 with one hand, and given the amount of pressure needed to push on the lock bar, it would at least be harder than to close, say, a Griptilian with one hand. The Grip is just one example.

I'd like to see your mother open and close a 110 with one hand.

 

[nozh2002]

Azrael31- I did not bring up all of those expensive customs. Someone else compared Buck to every other knife in the world, including (but not limited to) all of the knives I listed. He brought them up. I was pointing out how silly the comparison was, not making it myself.

Funniest thing is that this someone is you. Nobody "compared Buck to every other knife in the world, including (but not limited to) all of the knives I listed", but you - not me for sure. Well, Keep making youself rediculos...

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Azrael31]

Azrael31- I did not bring up all of those expensive customs. Someone else compared Buck to every other knife in the world, including (but not limited to) all of the knives I listed. He brought them up. I was pointing out how silly the comparison was, not making it myself.

If you dont remember what you said, why dont you just read it? I dont think there's anything in there that even remotely implies that you think the comparison is "silly", and im pretty sure you were the first one to make those comparisons in this thread. The part that I reposted when I insulted you is the only place that I see those comparisons being made, and you made those statements. I may very well have been a little "childish" when I first insulted you, but you've only proven that I was in no way incorrect when I said what I did.

 

[allenC]

You said the guys at Buck must be the best knifemakers because if they were not, they would be fired or never hired.

I guess you did not actually read what I typed.
So I'll re-post it again for you:

From you:
Quote:
Do you really think that the guys in Buck's Custom Shoppe do work just as good (in terms of quality and craftmanship) as Bill Moran, Michael Walker, and Dietmar Kressler?

From me:
Yes.
If they did not then Buck would not keep them on the payrole.

I never said that the knifemakers that work for Buck are THE BEST.

You seem to have some difficulty understanding exactly what I'm saying.

So I guess a log is the most ergonomic knife ever...

So, you feel that the Buck 110 has the ergonomics of a LOG.

How do you expect anyone to take you as being serious after a statement like that?

When you make remarks like that you discredit yourself as someone with some knowledge to impart.

 

[Azrael31]

I just re-read some of this for kicks, and I realized the guy doesnt make sense half the time. I bet hed actually be yelling if we were disussing this in person :barf: ....anyways I personally like the ergonomics and heft of the 110. I prefer them to most of my lighter folders....but i'm not much of a folder guy anyways. imho they balance and handle very well.

The whole log statement is absolutely ridiculous by the way.

-Å

 

[Sinkolen]

I just re-read some of this for kicks, and I realized the guy doesnt make sense half the time. I bet hed actually be yelling if we were disussing this in person :barf: ....anyways I personally like the ergonomics and heft of the 110. I prefer them to most of my lighter folders....but i'm not much of a folder guy anyways. imho they balance and handle very well.

The whole log statement is absolutely ridiculous by the way.

-Å

If you go look around in a couple of the old threads you can find some of his posts. I've seen this guy's posts only 2 other times. But each post was an argument with someone else.

 

[Hair]

Funniest thing is that this someone is you. Nobody "compared Buck to every other knife in the world, including (but not limited to) all of the knives I listed", but you - not me for sure. Well, Keep making youself rediculos...

If you dont remember what you said, why dont you just read it? I dont think there's anything in there that even remotely implies that you think the comparison is "silly", and im pretty sure you were the first one to make those comparisons in this thread.

I made those comparisons to show how silly they are in relation to this:

The quality is on top - for all this years they defenetely learn how to make knives. For sure nobody can make knives better then Buck - same, but I doubt that better.

I was showing how Buck does not make "top quality" knives, and that there are knifemakers that make knives better than Buck. I listed several. Yes, the comparisons are silly. That is exactly my point. nozh made the comparisons. He compared Buck to every other knifemaker in the world.

Once more:

The quality is on top - for all this years they defenetely learn how to make knives. For sure nobody can make knives better then Buck - same, but I doubt that better.

I never said that the knifemakers that work for Buck are THE BEST. You seem to have some difficulty understanding exactly what I'm saying.

No, you see to have trouble understanding me. You said if the Buck knifemakers were not as good as Kressler, Walker, and Moran, they would not work for Buck. Kressler, Walker, and Moran are considered some of the best knifemakers in the world. You are saying the knifemakers at Buck are some of the best in the world as well. They are not.

ISo, you feel that the Buck 110 has the ergonomics of a LOG.

How do you expect anyone to take you as being serious after a statement like that?

When you make remarks like that you discredit yourself as someone with some knowledge to impart.

It is roundish, and not scuplted to fit the human hand. If someone feels my opinions are not valid just because they disagree, then I wouldn't want them to feel I have credit.

I just re-read some of this for kicks, and I realized the guy doesnt make sense half the time. I bet hed actually be yelling if we were disussing this in person :barf: ....anyways I personally like the ergonomics and heft of the 110. I prefer them to most of my lighter folders....but i'm not much of a folder guy anyways. imho they balance and handle very well.

The whole log statement is absolutely ridiculous by the way.

I would not be yelling at all. I am very calm. I come here to talk knives. It is you (and others) who are slinging insults and getting upset. I am at least on topic.

If you go look around in a couple of the old threads you can find some of his posts. I've seen this guy's posts only 2 other times. But each post was an argument with someone else.

You should read a little more of what I have posted. I post a lot of non-arguementitive posts that are purely helpful. I do argue a lot, but it is always about knives. I like to discuss knives. I rarely posts just to make fun of someone, as you are doing.