Building Shelter without a Mora?

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Cody Lundin is the real deal. His lives it and his book is very good and it does cover the gamet of physiological needs for both heat and cold. If you want to survive a short term situation and/or make a realistic survival kit, get the book.

Also, I have never seen someone wield a knife as well as him. The Mora he carries is about a third gone from use. Two advantages to the high carbon blade is the ability to stike a spark with a sharp rock and the ease of sharpening even on a smooth river rock if necessary. Thomas is right, he is definately not into knives beyond the simplistic Mora. He is also good friends with Mors Kochanski with whom he has spent time with in Canada and an obvious influence. I have the utmost respect for Cody Lundin's ability and greatly appreciate the responsibility he takes towards having experience for what he writes and teaches, as there are many out there who will just write.
 
No matter what book you read it is slanted and must have a grain of salt consumed while reading.

All these guys with books out ALL were inspired by the original survival author Bradfod Angier. His writings inspired a generation of wilderness authors.

Cody's book is a good read with better than average info. It is written with a warm environment slant however as mentioned.

Many of these authors do not fill in or talk about the gap between urban EDC and the potential for wilderness survival skills to be utilized.

Remember, if your transit bus breaks down in a blizzard you are now in a wilderness survival situation in the middle of a city. Mother natures cares not you are surrounded by concrete she will kill you anyplace, anytime.

Skam
 
The last time I built a debris shelter was in GA in March. The weather was cool and dry, the forest covered with dead leaves and there were areas of very thick pine straw. It was an ideal situation. We built the shelter completely without tools just to prove to ourselves it could be done. All poles and sticks were broken by hand and consisted almost exclusively of deadfall or standing dead trees. Under ideal conditions you won’t have any problem. It is rare to encounter ideal conditions.

With no tools your best bet is to seek natural shelter. Location, location, location, you have to find someplace where most of the larger problems are solved (wind, water) and it cuts down on the time and tools necessary to make it habitable.

Here in central Brazil in the high mountains there is very little in the way of building materials for shelters. There is an abundance of grass and there are many sheltered places in the rocks. I teach my students to fill a sheltered place with as much grass as possible. Some of them (self included) just rip the grass out; it helps if you have gloves. Others resort to the Mora SWAK to cut it. Up there you can break poles from the scrubby patches of forest but they are rarely straight. You can cut small stuff for covering with the Mora.

Shelter building can be done without tools or other assets but I mainly have them build a shelter from natural materials to reinforce the value of carrying a poncho, cordage, and a machete. It’s an issue of time and end result. Whatever you build when you are prepared will take you less time with better end results. Yes, you can build yourself a full-blown wigwam given enough time but you will be hard pressed to create a warm and dry shelter in the fading evening hours after you finally concluded you have to spend the night.

It is good to know how to build an adequate shelter in your area with no tools. It is better to learn how to use your folder or small fixed blade beyond their normal roles. True wisdom means never going into, over, or through a wilderness area without the means to spend the night. Mac
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Yes it can, it just isn't very efficient, just like it isn't very efficient to carve a spoon with a 12" bolo.

-Cliff
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100% I agree with you and this is exactly the same as my point.............
but let's not make a mistake here.
There's no substitute for a big knife.





plan no useless move, take no step in vain.

ishiyumisan
 
Haven't been on this forum in a while `just happened to decide to check it out.

Cody has a lot of experience, he lives it. I think a lot of people on this forum need to just get off their butts and go out in the bush and try the stuff, and stop focusing on a $400 waste of money knife when you have little or no experience whatsoever. Mora knives a very good knives and you can do a lot with them. And building a debris hut without a knife isn't a big deal, actually part of the idea behind it is that you don't need a knife to make one, althought it really varies; and in a lot places and times a debris is totally impractical and can't be made.

Some places you are better off having a bigger knife. But people for some reason get too focused on the idea of having only a knife, maybe you've watched rambo too many times; but you can do a lot with a mora, a good axe and a good saw, especially in the north country. How about you learn how to do the stuff with the tools and then learn how to do without.
 
grant4353 said:
Cody has a lot of experience, he lives it. I think a lot of people on this forum need to just get off their butts and go out in the bush and try the stuff, and stop focusing on a $400 waste of money knife when you have little or no experience whatsoever. Mora knives a very good knives and you can do a lot with them.
Some places you are better off having a bigger knife. But people for some reason get too focused on the idea of having only a knife, maybe you've watched rambo too many times; but you can do a lot with a mora, a good axe and a good saw, especially in the north country. How about you learn how to do the stuff with the tools and then learn how to do without.
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The above proves you have little experience, you should take your own advice and learn that most the same can be accomplished with a large blade than carrying a blade saw and axe. Yes, proper tools for the job is the best solution but for long journeys the proper solution is very heavy and bulky, a decent large blade is not.
A mora is a decent little blade that does good small jobs. It is not a durable or reliable hard use knife. This mora bandwagon is very naive.

Skam
 
With respect, the price of a knife used, one way or the other, is no more a measure of outdoors experience than hair color (although I favor gray :D ). Knives are made in Mora that cost far more than $100 per inch of length. No one here has advocated a "Rambo" knife - just advocates of thin and 4" vs advocates of thicker and longer.

My most experienced teacher of wilderness survival skills never used anyhting other than a GI "Ka-Bar," and he had been around. Not my choice, but it was his.

As for experience being more important than "perfect" gear (whatever that means to you) -- sure. :thumbup:
 
Thomas Linton said:
With respect, the price of a knife ...
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I always find it odd that people freak about the price of a knife if you considerthe cost of something simple like a good pair of hiking boots, which have a much shorter lifetime than a decent blade. I have friends who fly fish seriously and the price of their poles is way above most custom knives. It is just another piece of gear. Wanting to buy a nice forged blade from Kevin Cashen with a sheath from Chas Clements doesn't make you rambo, it just makes you a person who wants a really high performance tool, plus appreciates custom craftsmenship.

-Cliff
 
There are fly rods that are 'mora level' cost too.
(I have a bunch, just can't reach Thomas & Thomas)
Just like there are cheap hiking boots and expensive ones.
Have you checked the price on a pair of Limmers lately?

Once again the resident pryers have missed the point and bent the answer to fit their mold.
Grant spoke of knowledge. Field experience.
Learning as opposed to buying a cure all.
Experience vs pontification.
And how price does not equate knowledge or experience.
He even agrees that one can be better off with a big knife, in some places.
But when he does the unthinkable and sez:
Mora knives a very good knives and you can do a lot with them.
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He's told that his lack of experience is showing.

I thought this was a forum to share information and experiences.

But what do I know?
My BOB is a work in progress.
I haven't found the perfect knife.
I don't have any students.
I don't have the best equipment that money can buy.
I don't know everything.
I haven't read all the books.
I still don't know how to pry apart a 6' log in a real survival situation with my unnamed sharpened prybar.
 
But what do I know?
My BOB is a work in progress.
I haven't found the perfect knife.
I don't have any students.
I don't have the best equipment that money can buy.
I don't know everything.
I haven't read all the books.
I still don't know how to pry apart a 6' log in a real survival situation with my unnamed sharpened prybar.
Today 03:20 AM
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Now now, one must not say anything like this, you propably lost all the "respect" of this whole forum. ;) :D :p

Making do with a smallish knife (and an axe) has been the habit around here for the last two thousand years, for some reason no has felt the need for a prybar. Maybe we just did not know any better. :cool:

Each to his own.

TLM

Who gets by with a Mora if necessary.
 
Ebbtide said:
There are fly rods that are 'mora level' cost too.
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I grew up using a line tied to a stick, graduated to bamboo, then fiberglass, then various composites, and if someone asked me for a decent pole I would not suggest they hack down a alder in their back yard. If you have the money then buy a decent one, just like clothes, a car, a computer or food.

No one is arguing not to get experience, and experience and equipment are not mutually exclusive. I work with cheap knives all the time to understand what they can do and their limitations, however if I have to pick one to achieve a task in a demanding situation then I pick better quality tools.

Again I would ask for all those advocating cheap knives for survival because you can survive with them, do you also advocate cheap clothes, cheap compasses, etc. .

-Cliff
 
Again, is this really simply a matter of cheap vs. expensive?

If it were, then the -- can we call them the "anti-Mora" faction -- would be happy with a $400 3.5" by 3/32" thick custom puukko. Such a knife would certainly be of much higher quality than a "$10 Mora," but it wouldn't replace a $100 (or $300 :p ) 7" x 1/4" "chopper."
 
Thomas Linton said:
Again, is this really simply a matter of cheap vs. expensive?
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There are two main lines, one being cost, many will argue against the higher priced knives due to price alone as a cheaper knife "will do" and as soon as people bring out money start arguing for "experience" when no one has every argued that equipment replaces this anyway.

Then there is the size arguement alone. As with anything these are all relative to the individual. I know many people who would see the FRN Endura as an expensive knife, and I see size differently after working with a 1/16" thick, 2" long, 1/2" wide utility knife for the past couple of years.

Lately I have been tooling with using it as a "survival" knife, not in the sense it is what I would pack, that would just be silly, but in the sense how can I use it if it was what I had at hand, or something similar because I always have it, or something very similar to it on hand - always.

After working with it through several shelters, building fires, traps, etc., I see a Mora 2000 as a very large and rugged knife in comparison, very much a prybar, and mentally will relax when I switch to using it as I can use much more rugged methods.

I can then switch up to a Camp Tramp from the Mora 2000 and make the same transition to a greater extent.

-Cliff
 
TLM said:
Making do with a smallish knife (and an axe) has been the habit around here for the last two thousand years, for some reason no has felt the need for a prybar. Maybe we just did not know any better. :cool:
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I think you may want to research your native peoples history again! ;)
One thing is for sure, in nearly all native peoples history world wide a large blade was favoured of one fashion or another. This fear of large steel is modern and perpetuated by the media and hollywood.

The earth was discovered and conquered by large steel blades.

Its not just about prying, chopping... its about efficiency, speed and reduced energy costs when weilding a large blade instead of trying to find alternatives for its uses.

I will say it again, for the learning impaired. Small blades like the mora do good work but are not hard use blades which is a workhorse in dire circumstances.

Skam
 
I think you may want to research your native peoples history again!
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I don't think so but some geography lessons might be in order for you.

Yeah, search for bolos, goloks, parangs, barongs, khukuris, etc. .
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And a lot of geography for this one.

TLM
 
Small blades like the mora do good work but are not hard use blades which is a workhorse in dire circumstances.
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I'll repeat, not here, we have enough archaelogical evidence otherwise. The only exception is the use of a larger leuku by the Saami and the history of that is short and the usage is raleted to VERY specific conditions.

As I said in the last two thousand years we have not found it necessary to use large blades in woodcraft.

I guess the americans have found the secret we have not.

TLM
 
Again I would ask for all those advocating cheap knives for survival because you can survive with them, do you also advocate cheap clothes, cheap compasses, etc. .
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Which is better, an inexpensive item and the knowledge of its use and limitations or an expensive item with little or no knowledge?
That was the point.

The knowledge that wool is better in cold wet climates than cotton is far more important than how much the garment costs. A shirt made out of a surplus wool army blanket would be cheap and effective, while an expensive cotton hoodie wouldn't.

Oh, and yeah, I grew up fishing with mono wrapped around a can and a spark plug for a weight.
They all catch fish. Stick and string, can and mono, my Ugly Stick 10wt and the Thomas & Thomas split bamboo fly rod.
There comes a point where it is more about personal satisfaction than necessity.
The Mora is an affordable, but quality option.
By all means, buy the best you can afford. But not having the same brand as the guy next to you isn't going to end your days.

It's the lack of preparation and lack of knowledge that will.
 
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