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Bushcraft the W&SS new age religeon?

kgd

Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
9,786
My title is a bit in jest and I know I'm walking the line on what could be a potential controversial topic. So in the true spirit of debate I wanted to pose the this thread as a civil exploration of the topic and divide often stated between 'Survival' and 'Bushcraft'.

Personally, I tend to think of myself more along the lines of the 'Survival' camp. I do not find myself completely alienated from civilization, my job, my wife, my family. I love going out in the wilderness, but I also understand that what constitutes a trip to commune with nature is largely a temporary exercise. In a matter of that afternoon, a day or a week I will be back living my life in my suburban home, working at the job that I love and trying to engage in the society I live in and help turn it towards a better direction.

I understand the romanticism of the 'bushcraft' mentality. The idea of going off to live fully in nature with little baggage from civilization. I know there are many folks who frequent W&SS who sincerely would like to pursue that, that fantasize about SHTF situations and think of engaging in bushcraft as a means of escapism.

So here is the topic. The term bushcraft often gets imbued with a sort of spiritualism to it. Nature is posed in a favorable light, nature the provider and man in harmony with it. The term survivalism often gets imbued with a sort of aggressive antagonism. Man versus wild, hmm where have I heard that catch phrase before?

I'd like to explore, are they really different from one another. We can look at technicalities, some talk about survivalism being lasting 2 or 4 days to get back to civilization while bushcraft being long term living. However, I firmly don't believe that bushcraft is necessarily any more harmonious or peaceful living. Yes, more skills can be had and one requires those skills, but the person living long term in the bush is not living an easy life either. They are struggling against the elements, struggling for nutrition just like the survival person is.

Then lets get at the issue of what I view as false perceptions about 'nature's bounty'. How sustainable are many parts of the wilds? There was a nice document put up not long ago, a CBC piece on traditional aboriginal families living in Quebec using what now became part of the James Bay reservoir. Anyhow, the documentary detailed how the family lived off the land, several hundred acres, by hunting and gathering practices. What struck me was that part of the practice was to let the land go fallow after a couple of years to regenerate game. There was a recognition of lack of sustainability on a given, even large one, plot of land with continuous hunting and gathering activities. This concept of resource use, sustainability is rarely counterbalanced with the mindset of 'nature will provide' or 'nature will provide indefinitely'.

In the end, I sometimes get tired of the labels sometimes thrown out at survivalists. As though they are unskilled or moderately skilled and somehow not in tuned with nature. I see the survivalist and the bushcrafters as a more similar mindset while others clearly attempt to delineate them.

What are your thoughts?
 
I would be more inclined to veiw bushcraft as a subsect of survival. The ultimate goals of both are the same, but they get there in different ways.
 
kgd - I'm with you about not feeling completely alienated from key aspects of civilization. Our current state of civilization is a natural progression of the human condition. I find some aspects distasteful, but most aspects to be quite appealing. Not being an idealist, I accept the bad with the good and try to find enjoyment in whatever I'm doing.

Being non-spiritual, I suppose the terms "bushcraft" and "survivalism" are quite similar to me. In my youth I knew people, some caucasion and some american indian, who lived primarily off the land on a full time basis. Perception being what it is, my first inclination would be to categorize these people based on ethnicity...the american indian leaning towards the bushcraft end, and the caucasion leaning towards the survivalist end. Really, this is a false perception. Both were doing essentially the same thing. Annoying how the brain works sometimes.
 
I basically see it like this:

Bushcraft- Guys who go out to "be one with nature" or animal spirits or some other nonsense. Tom Brown comes to mind. These guys have a very real arrogance about them because they don't use electricity and such and are quick to chide others for their usage of modern conviniences.

Survivalist- Someone who, sometimes to the point of insanity or OCD, buys, tests, checks, re-checks, and evaluates survival-based gear on the off chance that a catstrophic storm will spawn a series of climate-changing storms that lead to violent earthquakes that literally shake hordes of zombies straight from their graves. While not as arrogant as the previous set, they still tend to be pompous at times. These folks also come off as extremely paranoid sometimes.

REI Crowd- These types don't think it can be done if there isn't a $50 widget to do it with. You will regularly see these types get out of their Lexus, etc to take a hike on a well-cut trail with $1000's of gear. Then they turn around and head back to the office on Monday morning.

Sierra Club- These are the most obnoxious of all outdoor-types. They are rude, judgemental, and just plain irritating. These people take outdoor recreation nearly to the point of a religion. They are firm believers that you cannot exist in the outdoors if you do not pay membership dues to their organization.

Wal-Mart Woodsmen-These folks use mostly discount/used/outdated gear. They are not in the woods to impress anyone or connect to tree gods. Instead, they are usually found in the woods, at a fishing hole, or off the trail spending time with their families and teaching their kids and friends about the necessary skills of outdoor recreation. Most of them have an expertise that far surpasses any of the other categories, as it comes from experience, not books and gear. Most of these folks tend to be blue-collar. They work hard all week long so they can get up early on Saturday morning and spend the weekend unwinding around a fire with those they hold dear. Also, some of those in the above categories tend to look down upon, and ridicule, this type...mostly out of envy.












Disclaimer: These are generalizations so don't get yer panties in a bunch... Of course I realize that these don't apply 100% everyone and that many people overlap. I also realize, as I wish other posters would, that there are a lot of positive characteristics that I did not touch on.
 
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Doug - those are pretty specific generalizations. Although I read about the different "camps," and how some are rude, obnoxious, superior, inferior, etc. For the most part, regardless of category, I seem to meet decent people that like to be outdoors for one reason or another. I think that there are probably far more similarities between categories, like bushcraft and survivalism, than there are differences.
 
Doug - those are pretty specific generalizations. Although I read about the different "camps," and how some are rude, obnoxious, superior, inferior, etc. For the most part, regardless of category, I seem to meet decent people that like to be outdoors for one reason or another. I think that there are probably far more similarities between categories, like bushcraft and survivalism, than there are differences.

Agreed...with the exception of the few Sierra Club members I have met, there are good people in all of the listed groups. Of course, there are probably other categories I didn't think of.
 
The Wilderness course I just took at Oregon Firearms Academy confirmed my feelings pretty well.

Bushcraft is the core knowledge that everyone should have that wanders off into the wilderness. Your level of expertise may vary, and may extend into the spiritual side a bit, but basically, can you provide shelter, warmth, water and food with a minimal set or in extreme cases, no tools. Kind of "if I have an axe, I can make all the other tools" ideal.

The rest is a matter of comfort and bank account. How comfortable do you want to be and how much money do you have to spend on it. While some people try to compensate for a lack of knowledge by throwing money at their gear, that only temporarily fills the void of a lack of knowledge. When the gear breaks down, gets lost or forgotten, and you are left with no "Bushcraft" skills, you are going to be in trouble.

In my opinion, everyone that spends time deep in the woods should know how to start a fire, build a shelter, find water and procure food with no tools or they should at least be trying to learn those skills. That doesn't mean I suggest they run out to the woods in their PJ's in the rain and will be able to start a fire in 5 minutes and live like a king for as long as they wish, it just means that they will be able to use bushcraft skills in the event that their equipment, whether purchased at Walmart, REI or elsewher fails.
 
The Wilderness course I just took at Oregon Firearms Academy confirmed my feelings pretty well.

Bushcraft is the core knowledge that everyone should have that wanders off into the wilderness. Your level of expertise may vary, and may extend into the spiritual side a bit, but basically, can you provide shelter, warmth, water and food with a minimal set or in extreme cases, no tools. Kind of "if I have an axe, I can make all the other tools" ideal.

The rest is a matter of comfort and bank account. How comfortable do you want to be and how much money do you have to spend on it. While some people try to compensate for a lack of knowledge by throwing money at their gear, that only temporarily fills the void of a lack of knowledge. When the gear breaks down, gets lost or forgotten, and you are left with no "Bushcraft" skills, you are going to be in trouble.

In my opinion, everyone that spends time deep in the woods should know how to start a fire, build a shelter, find water and procure food with no tools or they should at least be trying to learn those skills. That doesn't mean I suggest they run out to the woods in their PJ's in the rain and will be able to start a fire in 5 minutes and live like a king for as long as they wish, it just means that they will be able to use bushcraft skills in the event that their equipment, whether purchased at Walmart, REI or elsewher fails.

I agree with what you say here, but it also blends exactly with my own philosophy of what constitutes a survivalist.

I'll try to single out Talfuchre here because he made some very impassioned posts recently. One on man's drive to the wilderness fulfilling his instinctual need to be in the wilds, to kill or to make decisions that have life or death connotation. Second one being his feeling of morose at purchasing equipment as a gap fill to true wilderness experience. While I don't question Tal's motivations in the least, he also would appear to be at least writing words towards the naturalism/spiritual end of the spectrum for what bushcraft is or can be. Feeding the soul its true desires if you will.
 
I see very little similarity between Bushcraft and survival. There would be a connection if a survival situation arises while you are in the Bush or woods. However a Survivalist is a person who can survive any situation that they are thrust into. It may be in the woods, in the water, in the jungle or in a dessert or in a urban jungle. It may well be a situation that you can't practice for or have any control over.

There is no really survival involved in packing all the necessary gear, deciding where to go and then go there, Bush craft is just simply having outdoor woods skills. OK maybe a planned survival?
 
Great post KGD. I think that it is simply a switching in verbiage...

I was watching a guy on youtube who said 'When you use the word survival - you are already beat'. He meant that you shouldn't go out or find yourself in a 'Survival' situation - you are simply trying to better your situation and live, in a new setting.

If you have to 'survive' woods - something went wrong with your view of the wilderness.

Bushcraft simply seems to be talking about the skills (craft) you use in the woods (bush).

I think many of us agree with this, and thus this is why you are seeing a switch in verbiage.
 
I also think there are some nuggets of truth in Dougo's post. It is the value statements added that make them not right.

I shop a lot at REI and I see that I often place too much stress on gear and not simply doing. I think many people who shop at places like REI are collectors - not hikers.

However, this is common with many things bought. Many fisherman are collectors of gear... not on the pond.

TF
 
I also think there are some nuggets of truth in Dougo's post. It is the value statements added that make them not right.

Therein lies the joy of the internet. It wasn't intended to be 100% factual. In fact, it was mostly tongue-in-cheek. However, as Chaucer* wrote: "man may seye full sooth in game and pley." My analysis was based purely on my own experiences and colored, as usual, with a touch of sarcasm and cynicism...













*Yes, I had to look it up because I knew King Lear wasn't the original recording.
 
The definition of bushcraft seems to be somewhat of a moving target. So is bushcraft defined by a skillset, an attitude, some degree of perceived or real spiritual experience, location (live in the boonies not the city), equipment (rei tent vs. hand built shelter), a combination of these items, etc.?
 
Sort of Ray Mears vs Survivorman or Bear Grylls?

I see bushcraft as something our ancestors did, and survival as something that happens to you and you have to overcome it (I hope that makes sense?).

Or the difference between roughing it and smoothing it.

Interesting thread, thanks.
 
Great post KGD. I think that it is simply a switching in verbiage...

I was watching a guy on youtube who said 'When you use the word survival - you are already beat'. He meant that you shouldn't go out or find yourself in a 'Survival' situation - you are simply trying to better your situation and live, in a new setting.

If you have to 'survive' woods - something went wrong with your view of the wilderness.

Bushcraft simply seems to be talking about the skills (craft) you use in the woods (bush).

I think many of us agree with this, and thus this is why you are seeing a switch in verbiage.


id have to agree mostly with that.

heres how i think it goes (i think its called a union):

all bushcrafters are survivalists but not all survivalists are bushcrafters.
 
Great thread already. Thanks Ken.
For me the term bushcraft involves there we can find something better
in primitive way of doing things than in our modern life.
The life of our ancestor was not an easy one compared to our current life for sure.
But it is also known that their life was something more than hand to mouth, while
we sometimes live nothing more than a hand to mouth livings.

There will be no place for 60000000000 people in mother nature if we do in the primitive way.
From this kind of view, bushcraft is nothing more than a romanticism.
But I think the thought of bushcraft has something true nonetheless.
It has something that we've forgot in the process of constructing modern civilisation.
 
Well there truly is a little bit of magic in making a friction fire. I'm not sure its the most practical way to spend your time when fire is needed, unless that is the only option left to you. However, it is certain a whole lot of fun to do. Even when it is just practice or indulging in pleasure of showing somebody else your new parlour trick.

There are some things, like bow drill, maybe even flinging that sling, or throwing a hand made atlatl dart (well one of Doc's) that go a bit beyond the practical. Eating a handful of wild grapes and making a bit of twine from cedar bark. These are romantic activities that transport us into the past. A skillset that links our history with technology. Where simple was also effective and yet still ingenious.

I remember in one of our fire threads, somebody asked what was the point and why not just carry a bic. Again, aside from the practical answers of redundancy of firemaking, the simple answer is because it is fun to do, to practice and to think about times gone by. Perhaps some of that is what bushcrafting is a all about!
 
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