bushcrafter or survival knife... if you only had one?

[Herlock]

Hi. Interesting. I think if I really have to decide for one tool only, it would be a camp/utility knife. Actually it would be my “old” A1 (before the Pro series). It’s just perfect compromise between a big chopper and a small carving/bushcraft knife. It can withstand some heavy camp chores (shelter, fire, etc.) but not becoming too cumbersome in food prep and wood carving.

I have a problem with the survival definition, I think a “survival” knife, per se, does not exist . Everyone has a tool he/she would feel very comfortable using in a “survival” situation. For someone can be a chopper, for someone an axe, a multitool, etc. For someone else can be a simple SAK (there are videos showing how a SAK can handle rather heavy tasks, when handled properly with right skills).

I think also it depends on the environmental conditions. What can work good in the Nordic woods it may be not so good in tropical jungles, etc. Overall I really believe are the skills making the difference rather than the tools, even if a “proper” one brings confidence and peace of mind.

It’s anyway kind of funny, it started with the survival, evolved into bushcraft and now, for some dudes at least, we’re fully in the glamping era with dedicated tools… what would be next trend ?

 

[grogimus]

SAK Huntsman is a good bang for your buck in the tool department imo.

 

[22-rimfire]

If I knew I was going into something i'd probably go a little bigger than my usual, but most of the time i run about 4.5 inch blade

My typical size range is about 4-5.5" for a fixed blade and the most likely size of knife I would have beyond a SAK in a accidental woods survival situation. Going into a known situation, that is where such things as the BK-2 or similar knives would be a reasonable choice. But for a couple days.... I'll probably stick to my regular woods carry size as I am more comfortable and proficient with this size.

 

[blade dude]

Id go with some 9 inch blade that at the thickest is 1/4 inch. Because you know what those few extra ounces I won't really notice. Preferably made of 440 steel so that when I have to use a rock to sharpen it doesn't take a day


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jhansenak47]

Hi. Interesting. I think if I really have to decide for one tool only, it would be a camp/utility knife. Actually it would be my “old” A1 (before the Pro series). It’s just perfect compromise between a big chopper and a small carving/bushcraft knife. It can withstand some heavy camp chores (shelter, fire, etc.) but not becoming too cumbersome in food prep and wood carving.

I have a problem with the survival definition, I think a “survival” knife, per se, does not exist . Everyone has a tool he/she would feel very comfortable using in a “survival” situation. For someone can be a chopper, for someone an axe, a multitool, etc. For someone else can be a simple SAK (there are videos showing how a SAK can handle rather heavy tasks, when handled properly with right skills).

I think also it depends on the environmental conditions. What can work good in the Nordic woods it may be not so good in tropical jungles, etc. Overall I really believe are the skills making the difference rather than the tools, even if a “proper” one brings confidence and peace of mind.

It’s anyway kind of funny, it started with the survival, evolved into bushcraft and now, for some dudes at least, we’re fully in the glamping era with dedicated tools… what would be next trend ?

I always thought that form should follow function. Plenty of forms function, so as they say, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

The whole bushcraft genre has unfortunately been capitalized upon by business and is driven by money. All the little gadgets and doodads for sale make me wonder when people lost sight of the original point.
My only recommendation for a bushcraft/survival knife is to minimize weight and consider where it will be used.

 

[smith357]

I have carried many knives over the years for extended woods stays and found the recent "bushcraft" knives with their thick bladed scandi grinds to be very good at fine wood work but not much else. The thin bladed Scandinavian Puukkos they were derived from are good all around blades but tend to be a little too delicate for my tastes. I used to carry big honking Bowie style knives for chopping but found a good Hawk weighs less and chops better. Over the last 40 years I have come to prefer a smaller blade of about 4-5 inches long and roughly 1/8 inch thick made from 1095, O1 or other high carbon steel so I can strike a spark off the spine to ignite tinder. I like the edge to be full convex because it is easy to maintain in the field, but a saber or full flat grind with a secondary convex bevel is still good and provides strength along with easy slicing. I also like a blade with a good belly and hump back for skinning game, and a full tang for added durability is also very nice to have. Those are my personal preferences in a good all around field knife that can be used for woods crafting and survival.

 

[rustyrazor]

My typical size range is about 4-5.5" for a fixed blade and the most likely size of knife I would have beyond a SAK in a accidental woods survival situation. Going into a known situation, that is where such things as the BK-2 or similar knives would be a reasonable choice. But for a couple days.... I'll probably stick to my regular woods carry size as I am more comfortable and proficient with this size.

4-5.5" blades are what I consider my "survival" sizes.. I wasn't referring to hollow handles or anything, more thinking size wise. guess I should have been more specific in some ways. my idea of a bushcrafter comes from taking measurements of dozens of "bushcraft" advertised knives, most of which are generally smaller at around 8.5" with about a 4" blade where my definition of a survival knife came from the idea of jump knives or chute knives that are a little bigger and mine comes in at around 10-10.5" oal with a 5-5.5" blade and around 3/16 thick at the spine.

 

[GREENJACKET]

The "One Knife" is such a pain. Bigger is better, but then who is going to carry it? The next step down is the combat or large utilitys knife as they are portable, but then they really aren't that great as they are poor choppers. Then there is the small knife be it a fixed, locked, multitool or SAK/penknife; which for survival is the most likely to be available as a lot of people can find an excuse to carry one.

A felling axe is better than a small forest axe, but few would pack carry the former.
Hard wood machete are tricky to find, jungle bolo's, machete's and pangas aren't up to it. I like my Blackjack Marauder II, but as that is no longer made then the Skrama is hard to beat.
For a large utility then I like the Survive knives GSO 7/7, but its another specialised tool. I carried a CRK Project II for years, and it was carried a lot and little used but at least comforting to know I had something.
Saws are great, I like Silky's.

All the above because you have prepared and planned your trip and packed accordingly. Thing is survival is usually unplanned.

Small knives that you might have as your EDC is whatever you fancy. They are the ones you need to practice with.

These are not a bad pair, my present travel fast but still a manageable package to built temporary shelters/fires. I also will have a Victorinox Huntsman in my pocket.

 

[Shotgun]

What survival expert needs a knife? Conversely, people who don't use knives a lot would probably put themselves at greater risk using a big knife. Also, why one knife? This question really just boils down to "you can only have one" question. Which is fine but what I carry more often then not is a saw, sak, and some sort of other knife for food and carving. This is where the 3-5 inch bushcraft blades come in. I usually carry a mora or another pocket knife like a opinel or svord peasant. I've given up on the one tool option but if I had to, I'd take a mini hatchet or small machete over a knife.

Gotta say though that the cutting tools are more for convenience and fun. I usually have to find a reason to use them.

 

[GREENJACKET]

As above.
My son, who got back from travelling around the world last year, would suggest a credit card with some decent credit on it, or cash, for world wide survival

Part of your question was Woodlore style knife such as Ray Meer uses. Or Bushcraft knives. Lots of people like them but I'm less enthusiastic about them as I prefer a more pronounced lower guard on this sized knife as found on many older style hunting knives.
Its very true an axe or large blade do require quite a lot of skill. When tired and hungry then its not the best time to start wielding, for the first time, such big destructive tools; for if it was to "get you" your in even more trouble. A smaller more controllable knife is better.

Whatever the case the knife shouldn't fail. Better it be softer and bend than snap. Some build survival knives thick in the belief they must be tougher for it. As a knife maker yourself, you know thats not the whole truth. There are some poor grinds out there that make poor cutters. Small and medium blades just don't chop well so why does every y tube tester think they must film chipping at some huge log? Survival is about conserving energy and every task must be weighed up.

I carry a knife in my pocket because I'm unlikely to lose my trousers. (The old scout method was to have the SAK on a piece of string with one end attached to the belt; I still think its worth doing).

 

[fmajor007]

4-5.5" blades are what I consider my "survival" sizes.. I wasn't referring to hollow handles or anything, more thinking size wise. guess I should have been more specific in some ways. my idea of a bushcrafter comes from taking measurements of dozens of "bushcraft" advertised knives, most of which are generally smaller at around 8.5" with about a 4" blade where my definition of a survival knife came from the idea of jump knives or chute knives that are a little bigger and mine comes in at around 10-10.5" oal with a 5-5.5" blade and around 3/16 thick at the spine.

I think you're right on.

My "field knife" is a custom blade gifted to me by a former member here as appreciation for service (his was "Corps", mine was Airborne - and neither were remfs). He made the knife a perfect mirror image from my drawings.

The blade is just a hair under 6", handle 5-3/4" iirc. It's out of 1/4" O1 with his superb heat treat with a high-sabre grind and convex edge. It is easy shaving sharp. This, to me, a perfect example of what many non-military (minimally experienced) "experts" would call a sharpened pry-bar.

I am well acquainted with SERE and the years/experiences have taught me what i need a knife to be able to do.

Here's a couple pics:
having just cross-batoned through the old, dead/seasoned white oak.

a little tip-splitting test on unseasoned white oak:

a little size perspective photo - it's really not that large:

just a "glory" photo;

I could probably have done just as well with 3/16", but the blade smith had 1/4" in stock and is my preference anyway.

 

[GREENJACKET]

It’s anyway kind of funny, it started with the survival, evolved into bushcraft and now, for some dudes at least, we’re fully in the glamping era with dedicated tools… what would be next trend ?

Thats the thing it always ends up more glamping than "survival". Survival is when you don't have all the sexy toys. To me survival can be going to friends house for a barbecue and there isn't a sharp knife in the place... nor bottle opener...Sends me nuts... (Thankfully I have my SAK Huntsman).

Basically, you pack it you carry it. The sharpest knife in the block is using your brains.

 

[Firestrike]

Big blades do more work with less limitations.

 

[rustyrazor]

Big blades do more work with less limitations.

valid point.. with some limitations. it's harder to do finer work with them and if it's too big to be comfortable, people just won't wear it. here's my idea of a plain workhorse that is intended to be carried and used as a jack of all trades knife. it's about a 4.5" blade @ 3/16" thick and it is big enough to get most jobs done rather easily but small enough that i never consider leaving it behind. these were both sold to other guys but my personal one is pretty similar. it's an ever evolving design i've been playing with since 1997 when i was designing a knife to have with me in the infantry.


so, let's see the one's we're all talking about... a picture speaks 1000 words apparently so let's see em.

 

[22-rimfire]

It is a lot of what you are comfortable using when it comes to what knife you choose to carry in the woods.... potential survival, an unplanned over-night stay on a day hike, injury that caused you not to be able to hike out, etc. I generally carry enough stuff with me even on day hikes that would allow me to spend the night, maybe a bit miserably in a continuous rain, but still spend the night staying safe and not exposing yourself to un-necessary risks.

I do agree that a big knife (7" or greater) generally can do more "work" as long as you have a folder for detailed cutting. For me that big knife adds more risk of personal injury to the situation. Regardless, you just have to carry it. The folder is an integral part of my woods tools as it is just about everyday. That said, I am less likely to have a big knife with me regardless unless I am car camping and that generally is not a survival situation unless the unexpected happens weatherwise.... flood, tornado, etc. These freak things happen, just watch the weather channel for examples.

 

[GREENJACKET]

Here I'm repeating myself, but its my take on the various styles of larger utility designs:

(Don't take any notice of condition as many are replacements or reconditioned; at some point I heavily used each style).
First up an original Cold Steel Master Tanto. The archetypal crow bar with an edge. For the urban scrap yard it excels, just not great in the woods.
Blackjack Mamba 7, lovely recurve blade and light weight; fantastic grip. I love this blade style in a folder, but as a fixed with such a fine grind its a bit fragile for hard wood forestry.
Harry Boden classic stalking knife, circa 1986, similar to many a bushcraft and gralocking knife. Bushcraft knives are in fashion at present with many following Ray Meer's Woodlaw. Lots of grinds and designs. I like a prominent lower guard on mine, well a lot more than many have. Weight generally is dependant on the blade stock which to me many are over built. I'm a fan of slimmer stock "patch knives". A good choice, classics are classics because they work. Rustyrazor: very similar to yours.
Chris Reeve Project II (Now retired, had too many adventures with it). Now this has been around the world, done everything asked of it. Dispatched wild boar, cut snow holes; basically done the biz. Not a great chopper and I never needed to batton much with it. I'm a fan of 7" knives. Its long and slim which I like and has a pointy end which many modern knives forget a pointy point is useful. Quality is worth having. Fantastic.
Al Mar Modern in S30V. I love its weight and design, nice slim and compact including the sheath. Great for food prep. I haven't pushed it hard and its let down by the skinny grip. Its in my truck's picnic box.
Chris Reeve Pacific. The handle design is fantastic with multiple grip options. An accomplished blade and design. For once I find the serrations irritating (liked them on the Project). I know why they are there but on the Pacific they are in an annoying place and not needed. This plenty big enough a blade.
Susspuuko from Finland, a relatively inexpensive and tough blade (inexpensive over here). The steel is a bit solft but then not going to fail even at -40. Great grip. A very neat, slim, and useful utilitarian blade; plenty enough blade for the trail.
Glock, great for getting mud out of tank tracks, not a lot else. I'm sort of a fan, but I prefer something of more quality. Why its here is because their sheaths are compact. What is it with huge heavy paddle sized sheaths, or heavy leather contraptions? I just want secure carry and protection from the edge and point whilst keeping the overall package as neat as possible.
Survive Knives GSO, is modern and in fashion as they are always sold out. Whichever one you choose they are all great. Not heavy, very tough, very sharp, excellent investment, excellent tool. Love them to do something a little more pointy. I'm a massive fan.
Victorinox and game prep kitchen and game larder knives. Most are pretty thin and excel at meat and veg preparation. Non weigh much either. They just can't do woodwork. If you are taking big wood work tools such as an axe or Skrama then its not a bad choice to take a food prep kitchen knife or two. For a party of people then why not?

There is 30 years experience here. I'm tempted to buy a GSO 7/7 as I like a good sized knife. Trouble is they don't really see any use. Non are very good at chopping wood. Some can weigh far too much. They make a dogs dinner of food prep. I'm still a fan but my head says two tools more specialised is better than one that is poor at everything. Trying to chop a log with a 7" or 8" knife is to me just dumb... thats what a saw is for or even an axe. A pet hate of mine are heavy slab knives such as the British MOD Survival knife; sorry fmajor007 don't like it.


Anyhow, its the style, build, and handle that is important not size. Whatever you go for make sure it can cut not bludgeon. Again, I'm leaning towards small fixed more and more with a keen edge and leave the big jobs to more specialised tools.
A multitool and a small fixed or quality folder is plenty.

The Heavy brigade, great but you really do need a pack to carry them, or a mule or a truck; the Skrama is in the middle and a good bushwhacker. For me the smallest axe to be useful is a small forest axe :

 

[JamesofArc]

I give this answer only if everybody understands that I do use an axe now days so I no longer rely on a big knife as my main cutting tool but at one time I did use a large chopper knife and no axe. Now with that being noted.....

Back when I did have only a large knife in my backpack along with a pruning saw I used an Ontario SP 10 Marine Raider and I loved it and I would have no problem with going back to that load out if I had to. I have had other large choppers such as the BK9 but I trusted none like I have the SP10, it is a thick and very strong knife that will not fail you if you get to know it.

I myself prefer a flat grind or saber grind knife with a v grind edge and I say that because I do not use belt sander to sharpen my knives and when in the woods I use a simple Smith two stone rod sharpening system that is lite and easy to pack and can touch up my knife really easy in the evening or morning.

I can do so much more with the SP10 than anything else. First off it is great protection. While hiking it is on my belt on the front of my leg so it swings with my leg and is right there in front for all to see and easy of reach. Second when I get to camp it makes tent stakes so I don't have to carry any which makes my pack lighter and helps justify bringing a big knife which is not actually in my pack but on my leg and I also use my SP10 to pound in the tent stakes. Third I use it to fish. Once that fish hits the bank I hit it in the head with the spine of my SP10 and then I chop its head off and split it down the belly and pull the guts out and set it aside until later. Forth, later back at camp my pruning saw cuts logs into length but to get the fire going I baton some kindling. Fifth, after using my KA-Bar USMC MKII to clean the fish i use my SP10 as a spatula to flip them over on the camp fire grill.

I myself feel the Ontario SP10 Marine Raider combined with the KA-BAR USMC MKII is a great hiking/camping combination if you really get out and live and survive. If all you do is bring some Ramon noodles and Hot Chocolate or Tea with you while hammocking then you probable will not need it or enjoy it.

 

[GREENJACKET]

I also like an axe. The GB Small Forest Axe is the most packable useful axe, but in terms of axes it still a real compromise. At 2.2 lbs then that a huge carry investment.
I can see the SP10 appeal and it reminds me of the large Bowies of old, popularised in the American Civil War and by adventurers and explorers. When firearms weren't so reliable then they were for defence too. An all rounder for personal use.
Later still the combat knife evolved as an even more compact utility blade. The soldier just needed less and less knife. Today it can be argued that a multitool is plenty.

I blame Rambo for forcing the "one knife" fascination. It never was before. Most of us have a selection of tools and take the ones we think we might need. As knife enthusiasts we take more than needed but thats the hobby. Work tools generally get carried by a truck.

A few centuries back I think I would fancy carry this from my collection:

A smaller knife and folding saw will sort out 98% of anything that needs doing on the trail and be a lot lighter. Few trips are for more than a few weeks; long gone are campaigns of months and years. Civilisation is around every corner.

Though I love a big blade they really are a specialised tool. Overbuilt then they become really inefficient, annoyingly so. Folders have got better and better, but I still maintain a fixed blade is better. So my final say is I would choose a medium length utility sheath knife, of a high good quality. Funny thats exactly what my father carried as a scout..

 

[Gaston444]

I give this answer only if everybody understands that I do use an axe now days so I no longer rely on a big knife as my main cutting tool but at one time I did use a large chopper knife and no axe. Now with that being noted.....

Back when I did have only a large knife in my backpack along with a pruning saw I used an Ontario SP 10 Marine Raider and I loved it and I would have no problem with going back to that load out if I had to. I have had other large choppers such as the BK9 but I trusted none like I have the SP10, it is a thick and very strong knife that will not fail you if you get to know it.

I myself prefer a flat grind or saber grind knife with a v grind edge and I say that because I do not use belt sander to sharpen my knives and when in the woods I use a simple Smith two stone rod sharpening system that is lite and easy to pack and can touch up my knife really easy in the evening or morning.

I can do so much more with the SP10 than anything else. First off it is great protection. While hiking it is on my belt on the front of my leg so it swings with my leg and is right there in front for all to see and easy of reach. Second when I get to camp it makes tent stakes so I don't have to carry any which makes my pack lighter and helps justify bringing a big knife which is not actually in my pack but on my leg and I also use my SP10 to pound in the tent stakes. Third I use it to fish. Once that fish hits the bank I hit it in the head with the spine of my SP10 and then I chop its head off and split it down the belly and pull the guts out and set it aside until later. Forth, later back at camp my pruning saw cuts logs into length but to get the fire going I baton some kindling. Fifth, after using my KA-Bar USMC MKII to clean the fish i use my SP10 as a spatula to flip them over on the camp fire grill.

I myself feel the Ontario SP10 Marine Raider combined with the KA-BAR USMC MKII is a great hiking/camping combination if you really get out and live and survive. If all you do is bring some Ramon noodles and Hot Chocolate or Tea with you while hammocking then you probable will not need it or enjoy it.

Finally something I can agree with wholeheartedly... And a real bona fide "Survival Knife" described, with no mention of the terms "marketing"... How about that?

And the SP-10 is not only a much better knife than the BK-9, but it is a correct stick tang, with all the weight in the right place, and the hand properly isolated from the vibrations of chopping.

And an actual mention of the V-edge being better in the real world... Christmas must be in June this year...


Gaston

 

[Natlek]

Well, my hobby is fishing .River fishing , very far from civilization and a lot of walking , with hiking rucksack / 90 liters / usually weighs about 30 kg on my back to get to the the spot. I was counting little ...... calculation shows that I spent in the wild more than three and a half years , usually alone . One machete , one big knife , one small knife and one pocket knife is always with me .........nothing special , the cheapest ones . Do not ever rely on a single knife , there's a million ways you can stay without that one !

Guys, you can not predict Your stay in the wild . NO WAY !! Shit happens !! Someone mention that he don t want to carry big knife because of weight ... well one day you will cry for that big and HEAVY knife , trust me ! If I try to record what I've experienced , will turned out to be bigger book than Encyclopedia Britannica