bushcrafter or survival knife... if you only had one?

So I can use loppers to tidy them up; its called gardening. Skrama'ing was just to get into the thicket so I could see what to do... and it was fun; I was almost in the jungle again for a minute :D
 
wildernessknife&tool said:
A cheap machete is probably the cheapest way to get stuff done with a big knife. $5-10 gets you shelter building capability.
Click to expand...

This. I live in the mountains of East TN, just north of the Smokies. My kids and I like to play in the woods, and just for fun, I did a little test. I took a variety of differing blades and tested them with regards to shelter building, making basic impliments like a walking stick, fishing pole, digging stick, tent pegs, ridge pole for a tarp shelter, etc and tested the following knives: Becker BK2, An original Becker Cincinnati Machax, Effingham Blackjack Model 7, Bark River Bravo I, Bark River Bravo 1.5, Mora Companion, BHK Essiac FFG, LT Wright Genesis FFG, LT Wright Genesis Scandi, a 7.5" Hankins recurve camp knife in convexed 5160, BHK Highlander Sabre Grind, An Enzo Trapper Scandi O1 and probably a few more that I've forgotten. The Hankins recurve spanked them all. I then added a sub $10 Tramontina Bolo to the mix and it made the Hankins seem almost useless by comparison. A Condor "Speed Machete" was even more impressive and was almost effortless by comparison to all of the aforementioned knives.

The best all around performers for a "one tool option" were the Hankins first, and the Bravo 1.5 & the Blackjack tied for second place. However, they all sucked next to the machetes. I came to the following conclusions:

The whole "one tool option" is really a fantasy.

The Enzo Trapper O1 Scandi is the most aggressively cutting knife I've ever used on wood - either green or seasoned. It will do almost anything that I'll ever need a knife to do for around a hundred bucks. While the Essiac FFG and Genesis FFG are a little better on meat, that little Enzo comes as close to being the perfect knife as I've ever found. It is now my "go to". It's only failure is that the tip is too thick, so I also carry a little stainless Mora with me for cleaning fish or other tasks that might require a finer point.

Even a cheap machete makes shelter building child's play next to trying it with just a knife.

Occasionally, a small saw makes life much easier as well. I have a Silky Pocketboy, a 15" Sven, a 21" Sven and a 24" Dustrude. I pick whichever one is best suited for the situation, but if I had to pick just one, it would probably be the 15" Sven....

So, when I go out to play in the woods I always have my Enzo, a Mora and a machete (Condor Speed Machete is my current favorite). I sometimes I add a saw. If you total up the cost all of these tools, they still cost less than I have paid for many a super duper wonder knife that failed to deliver, and weigh only slightly more than a single big "chopper". I can do anything with them more easily & efficiently - burning fewer calories and with less risk of injury than I can perform the same task with some big A** Rambo knife.

I might also add that my buddy (a SERE graduate) dumped his big knives in favor of a BHK Essiac, a machete and a Sven Saw after we spent fifteen minutes together in the woods processing wood for a fire and cutting shelter poles....

My final conclusion? Skills are way more important than toys. Look at a guy like Cody Lundin - his primary cutting tool is a Mora, but he knows how to use it. After kicking myself for having spent so much time, energy and $ searching for the perfect "one tool option", I've learned enough that I can make do with a ten dollar Tram, a 12 dollar Mora and a $25 Sven Saw. That adds up to $47. Try finding a good "survival knife" for that....

YMMV
 
Last edited:
My final conclusion? Skills are way more important than toys. Look at a guy like Cody Lundin - his primary cutting tool is a Mora, but he knows how to use it. After kicking myself for having spent so much time, energy and $ searching for the perfect "one tool option", I've learned enough that I can make do with a ten dollar Tram, a 12 dollar Mora and a $25 Sven Saw. That adds up to $47. Try finding a good "survival knife" for that....

YMMV[/QUOTE]

I pretty much agree with everything you have said. When I grew up I was I was lucky enough to watch and learn from a old time woodsman, whose tools were basically Victorian. I remember him oiling them at the end of each day and giving them a once over with a sharpening stone. His knife was an old English pocket knife. His work tools were of pretty basic steels that today we would laugh at, but there wasn't much wrong with the tools as they did a lifetimes worth of work.

Inexpensive tools can get the job done, but I do think there is another level up of quality tools that are just that bit better. I am not talking about hyped up, high end, or expensive stuff, but rather those done to get a professional job done. It is getting more difficult to find good tools as too many are designed by those who don't do the work and more concerned to match the target market with a good profit margin. But there are a few jems to be had.

Invest in a good knife be it a sheath knife or folder and they should last years. Best bit is you learn how to use it and get the best out of it. Here I'm just saying I enjoy quality kit (I have Moras but I'm not completely convinced about them, I've broken a few).

If you hadn't noticed I've banged on about the Skrama. Well it does both the big knife and machete blade so very well. Its been out a couple of years but I only found out about it earlier this year. I have a good collection of cutting tools, most of which my old woodsman would have given a rye smile over; mainly because of the ridiculous price I've paid for some of them. He might of actually liked the Skrama, though he might have thought it on the small side (backpacking wasn't in his job description). For modern day living and playing in the woods then the Skrama is for me at least a great find, excellent compromise and the best bit its not an expensive tool. Brommeland you would like it.

The old tools used to break too, but then it was no big deal as the blacksmith just welded it back or made a new one. Today its fire and forget, if it fails its binned. The negative to this is they cost more in the long run. Manufacturers charge high prices for higher tech tools that in truth last no better than the old stuff. The old woodsman could hand saw firewood all day, most of us last a hour or two at most... or get the chainsaw out (which is what I'm going to do right now).

Lastly, I've always carried a SAK Huntsman. Occasionally I swop it for a Leatherman Charge TTi. To me that is my survival blade, anything more is a bonus.
 
[/QUOTE]
Inexpensive tools can get the job done, but I do think there is another level up of quality tools that are just that bit better. I am not talking about hyped up, high end, or expensive stuff, but rather those done to get a professional job done. It is getting more difficult to find good tools as too many are designed by those who don't do the work and more concerned to match the target market with a good profit margin. But there are a few jems to be had.

Invest in a good knife be it a sheath knife or folder and they should last years. Best bit is you learn how to use it and get the best out of it. Here I'm just saying I enjoy quality kit (I have Moras but I'm not completely convinced about them, I've broken a few).

[/QUOTE]

I agree 100%. To clarify, I too see the value in quality tools. I still own one handmade custom skinner in D2 and a couple of Bark Rivers, along with one lone BHK Essiac. I fully expect them all to outlast me. I also expect the same from my Enzo Trappers which, while being less expensive are just superb in my opinion.

My point about the Moras is this: I've done quite of bit of teaching in my life, and students tend to fall into one of two categories: Those who work their butts off in order to acquire skill, and those who want to play with the cool toys and rely on them rather than working to develop their abilities. I guess I was trying to illustrate that a skilled person with humble equipment is far more capable than an unskilled person with tons of cool stuff...... Obviously, the goal should be to have both the skills and the best quality tools, but in my experience too many folks want to "buy" skill.....
 
Its so true, and we all fall for it, buy tools, rifles, computers, bikes, that are way too much for our real needs but we want to be in the cool gang. We think we are buying into the skill too as we have seen someone will skill with the stuff. Buy same boots as your football stars, or same golf clubs as your Masters champion, and you too can play at that level. Wht does every man think he is genetically a Davy Crocket with a rifle or a Robin Hood with a bow?

Moras are an excellent teaching aid and in skilled hands do a fantastic job. If it breaks then get another. I just prefer something with a bit more quality that has a chance to last a bit longer, even a lifetime.. I always have a few Moras about but I tend to abuse them, and destroy them.

One problem with gaining skill is it takes effort! Time and work actually doing it. Not everyone has the time and even less the inclination. The other problem once gained a skill is maintaining it with regular practice. The older you get the more you forget... One niggle problem with blades is that they don't get that much use in a year. If used as part of a commercial or industrial job sure, but every day stuff then once or twice a day at most. The kitchen knives get most. The more specialised the less. So a personal carry knife gets a lot of carrying and a little use. Having said that, I wouldn't be without oneor two...

The thread was bushcrafter or survival. Well its the one you carry most which means weight and ease of carry are the real factors; so the bushcrafter wins for being the more compact a package.
 
GREENJACKET said:
The thread was bushcrafter or survival. Well its the one you carry most which means weight and ease of carry are the real factors; so the bushcrafter wins for being the more compact a package.
Click to expand...

I agree. This is exactly why I settled on an Enzo Trapper O1 Scandi. It's small and light enough to EDC, but tough enough (and scary damn sharp enough!) to do most anything. If I were actually in a "survival" situation, then that Hankins camp knife mentioned earlier or the Bravo 1.5 would be the "one knife" that I'd like to pair up with a good machete. However, the odds of actually having them with me are slim, whereas that little Enzo can ride along most anywhere, most any time.

Thanks to all for the conversation. I've enjoyed it.
 
Inexpensive tools can get the job done, but I do think there is another level up of quality tools that are just that bit better. I am not talking about hyped up, high end, or expensive stuff, but rather those done to get a professional job done. It is getting more difficult to find good tools as too many are designed by those who don't do the work and more concerned to match the target market with a good profit margin. But there are a few jems to be had.

Invest in a good knife be it a sheath knife or folder and they should last years. Best bit is you learn how to use it and get the best out of it. Here I'm just saying I enjoy quality kit (I have Moras but I'm not completely convinced about them, I've broken a few).
Click to expand...

Brommeland said:
I agree 100%. To clarify, I too see the value in quality tools. I still own one handmade custom skinner in D2 and a couple of Bark Rivers, along with one lone BHK Essiac. I fully expect them all to outlast me. I also expect the same from my Enzo Trappers which, while being less expensive are just superb in my opinion.

My point about the Moras is this: I've done quite of bit of teaching in my life, and students tend to fall into one of two categories: Those who work their butts off in order to acquire skill, and those who want to play with the cool toys and rely on them rather than working to develop their abilities. I guess I was trying to illustrate that a skilled person with humble equipment is far more capable than an unskilled person with tons of cool stuff...... Obviously, the goal should be to have both the skills and the best quality tools, but in my experience too many folks want to "buy" skill.....
Click to expand...

I agree also. Guess I am in an agreeable mood? I buy Condor machetes because I think they are better. They are more expensive than many other general production machetes. But mine work and as far as big knives go, the machete is my most often used big blade.
 
Last edited:
GREENJACKET said:
So I can use loppers to tidy them up; its called gardening. Skrama'ing was just to get into the thicket so I could see what to do... and it was fun; I was almost in the jungle again for a minute :D
Click to expand...

I was visiting a house just recently and he had been cutting his moderate sized trees down. He was cutting them about 3 feet off the ground. I asked. The reason is he is planning on getting a dozer in there for general leveling and a small dozer may have problems uprooting the roots if there is nothing to push against.
 
GREENJACKET said:
Inexpensive tools can get the job done, but I do think there is another level up of quality tools that are just that bit better. I am not talking about hyped up, high end, or expensive stuff, but rather those done to get a professional job done. It is getting more difficult to find good tools as too many are designed by those who don't do the work and more concerned to match the target market with a good profit margin. But there are a few jems to be had.
Click to expand...

The problem I've run into is there are more non-users than users. That is included for the producers and consumers. There have been several knives that I've used that were hyped up, but I find to be immensely underwhelming...especially when it comes to ergos (but I have big hands)

One reason why the Woodlore design works so well is because there was a lot of user input into making the knife.
 
22-rimfire said:
I was visiting a house just recently and he had been cutting his moderate sized trees down. He was cutting them about 3 feet off the ground. I asked. The reason is he is planning on getting a dozer in there for general leveling and a small dozer may have problems uprooting the roots if there is nothing to push against.
Click to expand...

Yes, if you are getting stumps out then a good bit of trunk is a good thing. My digger driver when he fells a tree cuts well high, and he is 6ft 6. A good stump really helps the bucket to work on, like pulling a tooth.
The stump in the picture can't be dug out as other trees are tight on it. Think it needs killing with some copper nails, and left to rot.

Did you get a Skrama? Exchange rate is excellent at present, and post is under $10. You might not need one, but you'll like it.


Crow, I remember talking knives with Ray Mears, twenty five odd years ago, and he showed me his first Woodlore. I didn't like it then and still don't though it has changed a little since then, and now there are a host of bushcraft similar designs. Most are overbuilt and too much steel in the full tangs. The blade stock doesn't need to be quite so thick and jI also like a more prominent lower guard. Frankly most is personal taste and what fits your hand and the way you use the knife. Being familiar helps.

A lot of knives, especially bigger knives, have poor balance and poor grinds. Poor balance comes is all sorts of ways but generally the blade seems dead in the hand. Over build thick stock and they are too heavy to move without exaggerating, which means they are hard to steer accurately. Then some have a great chopper design but no weight behind it so just don't work. Grinds and edges: either they are for cutting or for bludgeoning/chipping out a chop. Most knives are poor choppers. A machete is a cutter; an axe a chopper. Machete's with chopping grinds are poor. Axes with cutting edges will break. All can be sharp, but that doesn't mean they will be good at work.
Think that makes sense.
 
Last edited:
I've recently been going to the northern wilderness with friends who are all about the deep woods of northern New England. I brought my Buck 124 as my main carry. And although I love that knife , my buddy's TOPS SXB really proved to be the ideal blade to have. It'll cut , chop and saw with ease. It's a real work horse and I was impressed by its performance. It's got some nice heft to it. Chopping with it was a delight. Awesome knife ! So naturally I'm thinking of getting one now.
 
Nothing wrong with your Buck 124 (I looked it up). Buy a Silky Saw to compliment it.
Tops SXB? (Looked it up). I don't know it, and not in a hurry to either. I think its trying too hard to do too many things. When I've encountered similar things they have never performed well.

I've yet to find a saw on a knife worth having, unless on a SAK or Leatherman.
 
GREENJACKET said:
Nothing wrong with your Buck 124 (I looked it up). Buy a Silky Saw to compliment it.
Tops SXB? (Looked it up). I don't know it, and not in a hurry to either. I think its trying too hard to do too many things. When I've encountered similar things they have never performed well.

I've yet to find a saw on a knife worth having, unless on a SAK or Leatherman.
Click to expand...

All I'm saying is that from my experience with the SXB , it was an outstanding performer. It took a beating and begged for more. And no , there's nothing wrong with the 124. It's one my favorite fixed blades. But different situations call for different knives/tools. And in the woods I'd prefer the SXB.

For me , on paper , a lot of knives look good. But most of the time I need to actually be in a situation to see which blade really works best. Live and learn is how I roll.
 
SXB, I haven't handled it.

First off it retail price is $300, I'm sure it can be found discounted. Thats not cheep.
Weight at 1.6lbs is heavy and to me makes it a truck knife. With sheath its over two lbs which is getting into GB Small Forest Axe territory.
The handle with its tread would mess your hand up with prolonged work. I know this grip style is in fashion but they suck.
The Saw is next to useless and will chew up any wooden baton.
The sheath looks a mess and two velco straps on the handle would send me nuts. Quality looks iffy.
This two step reverse curve edge will get annoying as its too pronounced to get a flowing draw cut. Trying to be original over actual practicality.
The heft of the tool is all front forward which is fine for a pure chopping tool but makes controlling the blade for anything else difficult.

I could go on and on. Yes it can do work, its big and has an edge. But I'd be using colourful language if I had to use it for more than a few minutes.

There are better tools out there.
For example:
Buy a Silky BigBoy 2OOO, $93
http://www.silkysaws.com/Silky_Saws...y-2000-XL-Teeth#sthash.qcrl6wo3.vWXy82Kw.dpbs
A Skrama, $75 with sheath and post to USA.
https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/terava-skrama-bush-knife-carbon-steel/28025

For the same carry weight they would blow the SXB out of the water. Sadly there are a lot of these style knives being pushed. Trouble is the stuff that works is boring.

Doesn't have to be the above, I'm sure others have some alternative suggestions. A good axe and saw would do it too.
If you like heft and want some fun then get a Cold Steel SF Shovel; I throw them for sport, this guy is good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYcUu3whUxM


With the change buy some beer and steaks. Well thats what I would do.
 
The closest I'll likely get to a survival situation is the deep woods of the property I hunt. Me and a friend (who owns it) hunt and maintain it. We have some shooting lanes cut and a road or two for walking and the occasional truck to haul a log out, etc., but otherwise it's wilderness.

For the most part I keep a good game cleaning knife handy.

If I'm headed out for an all-nighter, I take a 14 dollar, 14 inch Tramontina machete and a SAK. I can't imagine I'd ever need more. Do I own more? Sure. But it's hard to justify my (favorite short machete) ESEE Junglas (shorter, heavier) when I know how well my Tram performs. That thing sings.
 
Invest in a good knife be it a sheath knife or folder and they should last years. Best bit is you learn how to use it and get the best out of it. Here I'm just saying I enjoy quality kit (I have Moras but I'm not completely convinced about them, I've broken a few).
Click to expand...

How'd you break a Mora? I'm not questioning that you did; I am genuinely curious.
 
GREENJACKET said:
SXB, I haven't handled it.

First off it retail price is $300, I'm sure it can be found discounted. Thats not cheep.
Weight at 1.6lbs is heavy and to me makes it a truck knife. With sheath its over two lbs which is getting into GB Small Forest Axe territory.
The handle with its tread would mess your hand up with prolonged work. I know this grip style is in fashion but they suck.
The Saw is next to useless and will chew up any wooden baton.
The sheath looks a mess and two velco straps on the handle would send me nuts. Quality looks iffy.
This two step reverse curve edge will get annoying as its too pronounced to get a flowing draw cut. Trying to be original over actual practicality.
The heft of the tool is all front forward which is fine for a pure chopping tool but makes controlling the blade for anything else difficult.

I could go on and on. Yes it can do work, its big and has an edge. But I'd be using colourful language if I had to use it for more than a few minutes.

There are better tools out there.
Click to expand...

Better is rather subjective; for him the knife might be everything he wants. To each his own. I have handled the SXB and some of what you say - like it being heavy and the Rocky Mountain handle scales being uncomfortable - rang true for me as well, but it apparently doesn't bother him. To me it appears to be patterned off the Tom Brown Tracker, but IIRC the Tracker wasn't quite as large.
 
GREENJACKET said:
SXB, I haven't handled it.

First off it retail price is $300, I'm sure it can be found discounted. Thats not cheep.
Weight at 1.6lbs is heavy and to me makes it a truck knife. With sheath its over two lbs which is getting into GB Small Forest Axe territory.
The handle with its tread would mess your hand up with prolonged work. I know this grip style is in fashion but they suck.
The Saw is next to useless and will chew up any wooden baton.
The sheath looks a mess and two velco straps on the handle would send me nuts. Quality looks iffy.
This two step reverse curve edge will get annoying as its too pronounced to get a flowing draw cut. Trying to be original over actual practicality.
The heft of the tool is all front forward which is fine for a pure chopping tool but makes controlling the blade for anything else difficult.

I could go on and on. Yes it can do work, its big and has an edge. But I'd be using colourful language if I had to use it for more than a few minutes.

There are better tools out there.
For example:
Buy a Silky BigBoy 2OOO, $93
http://www.silkysaws.com/Silky_Saws...y-2000-XL-Teeth#sthash.qcrl6wo3.vWXy82Kw.dpbs
A Skrama, $75 with sheath and post to USA.
https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/terava-skrama-bush-knife-carbon-steel/28025

For the same carry weight they would blow the SXB out of the water. Sadly there are a lot of these style knives being pushed. Trouble is the stuff that works is boring.

Doesn't have to be the above, I'm sure others have some alternative suggestions. A good axe and saw would do it too.
If you like heft and want some fun then get a Cold Steel SF Shovel; I throw them for sport, this guy is good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYcUu3whUxM


With the change buy some beer and steaks. Well thats what I would do.
Click to expand...

Yes you can go on and on as to why you don't like it. But I don't give a sh*t. I used it , I like it.

$300 ? No , dear. It's closer to $200. And @ $196 with current sales going on at KW.

Again , to each his own.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top