"Butterfly" knives ; opinion(s)

I was into switchblades. Then into balisongs. Now I'm into spidies. The balisongs had their time, but I don't find them reliable enough.
It is true that I did not have hi tech ones, but I'll ask a question to those who have and use a brand balisong (Benchmade or Microtech or whatever):
1. Take your balisong, open and close it a few thousand times. The blade begins to wiggle, right?
2. Take your balisong and open it (or close it). The lock should come and secure the latches if the knife is well adjusted. After a while that doesn't happen any more.
3. and that concludes my pleed: Take your balisong, open it and throw it on a target. See if it's suitable for knife throwing and how long does it takes to open the knife, to secure the latches and to aim and throw.
 
Dialex:

1) I think you didn't ever own a Benchmade or a Microtech Bali in your life. I opened, closed, spinned and done aerials with my Bm 42S and the blade has still no play. Don't know about microtechs, but I'm sure I am not going far from truth saying that Microtech is a good company and that the Tachyon and the Dragonfly are surely not taking blade play during time.

2) Read the answer above, it should do. If not I can tell you that my 42S still locks up VERY tight in both open and closed position.

3) Sorry, but can't understand this question... Could be me, but why in the world should I need to throw my bali? It is not supposed to be thrown, and anyway, I still think it could be thrown.

Judging a bali taking example of its throwing capabilities, its like judging a Ferrari for its luggage van... Or complaining about the shuttle not being able to be used for just going to the pub with your friends... Get my line?
 
Originally posted by dialex
1. Take your balisong, open and close it a few thousand times. The blade begins to wiggle, right?

Ummmm, I may not be into the thousands yet, but after about a year and hundreds of opening/closings my Tachyon, doesn't have a hint of blade wobble. It has bronze bushings to prevent that, and its got torx screws to tighten if it ever does start to loosen.


2. Take your balisong and open it (or close it). The lock should come and secure the latches if the knife is well adjusted. After a while that doesn't happen any more.

Wrong again. I even have an old piece of crap (Parker Cutlery, Gypsy) balisong that has many thousands of openings and closings, and while that blade has some wobble when its not locked open, once I do lock it open there is NO wobble, and it still locks very securely. Of course I have seen some junk balisongs, that have blade wobble so bad they should be thrown away, but I think thats do to complete negligence of the owner, not oiling or maintaining it. Either that or it was defective from the start.

3. and that concludes my pleed: Take your balisong, open it and throw it on a target. See if it's suitable for knife throwing and how long does it takes to open the knife, to secure the latches and to aim and throw.

Do you throw your Spyderco's? They are not anymore suited to throwing than a folder. If you want a knife to throw, buy a throwing knife designed for it. And as far as speed goes, I am far from the fastest balisong manipulater, but still I'd say less than 2 seconds from closed locked to open locked and ready to throw it.
 
well I don't throw my balis they just were'nt made for it but I do flip and use them ALOT. Trust me, I can cycle a balis pivots more in an hour than you will ever cycle the pivot on a spyderco and no blade wobble. That is the difference between high end and low end balis. It's like comparing those eagle spydie clones to the real thing. It's not worth the effort. A real bali is unsurpassable in the dependablity department as far as folders go, and they have an art to it, that's what attracts most of us. With my cheapies I had in the begining i almost turned away from balis in the first place then I upgraded (very very slightly) to a Bear and was interested enough to buy a BM 42. After I flipped one of those I understood the differences and now I'm a bonofide bali-holic. My regular collection of knives has dwindled and now I am an ambassador of the balisong.
 
Originally posted by dialex
1. Take your balisong, open and close it a few thousand times. The blade begins to wiggle, right?
Yes. But I can adjust it so it can go a few thousand more. BUt I've had folders that have failed at way less than a 1000 openings. Couldn't adjust those pivots at all.
2. Take your balisong and open it (or close it). The lock should come and secure the latches if the knife is well adjusted. After a while that doesn't happen any more.
Only on the cheap ones. I have at least 4 BM Custom balisongs from the late 80's to early 90's that lock up nearly as tight as they did when I first bought them. And at least 3 of them have cycles through that 1000 number. If you like, I can explain what makes a bali lock up nice and tight.
3. and that concludes my pleed: Take your balisong, open it and throw it on a target. See if it's suitable for knife throwing and how long does it takes to open the knife, to secure the latches and to aim and throw.
Don't have a bali that's designed to be thrown, but have thrown my cheap bali's to knoew that they weren't designed for it either. Have about 20 Spyderco's, and don't have any that's designed to be thrown either. How is that a consideration. As for opening and closing, I bet you I can do it at least 3 times to your 1 time opening and closing your Spyderco. But what does that prove?
 
ANyway.... a few comments of my own...

regarding the "efficiency," of a bali, and having to learn to open it... Well, it took me a while to ride a bicycle, too. And opening a bali is about as hard to forget as riding a bicycle.

Length of handles? Well, folders have longer handles, too... they have to be, or the blade won't be covered when the knife closes. And considering the amazing number of "ergonomic," handles that aren't, I'd have to say that the bali handles are pretty darned comfortable.

Throwing a knife... read any box on any knife, except for a throwing knife, and the box (or warranty card/ care instructions) will tell you "this knife is not designed or intended for throwing."

That being said, I'll concede both that my old endura held up pretty well after a lot of throws, and that all of my balis have twice the pin strength or more than my spydies, both due to pin thickness, and the fact that there are 2 pins, meaning the damage to pins from throwing is likely to be less severe. Damage to the locking mechanism will be even less. But I'm a bit less inclined to throw a $100 knife than I am a $40 knife. MAybe if I buy myself a cheetah...

I'm guessing that cheap balis have done mroe to damage the reputation of balis than cheap folders have to damage the rep of folding knives. It's easy to make a cheap lockback that will lock than it was to make a cheap bali whose press-together pins (which were used to cheaply assemble the imported knife parts) don't bend, rendering the locking loose at best. That said, a loose lock on a cheap folder is more dangerous to the user than a loose lockup on an open bali. The pin issue is somethign that I have a feeling will be soon solved with the screw-together pins that the cheetah will be using. Hopefully the design will spread to other imported knives.

Folders have their place, as I'm sure all of the bali owners will agree. I have many myself, and wouldn't trade them in. If forced to choose between my balis and my emersons, it would be a very close race. Even between my tachyon and my commander, or CQC-7...I don't think I could choose. But a knife, for just about anyone in any of these forums, is a knife... and a cheap knife will almost never really hold sway among any of us, be it a folder or a bali. Hopefully more balis will come along in the $50-100 quality range soon, bringing the race with standard folders a little closer. There's such a range of folders, from delicas to customs, that a good folding knife can be found within each $5 increment of price. Not so with balis. The BM 31 can be found for well under 100, if you know where to look, but it's still a pricey knife at standard retail cost. So usually the choice falls between that, and chinese folders for a medium priced butterfly knife... which needs to be worked on, and probably will be, soon. Otherwise I'll have to move to florida myself, and try to find a way to make bali manufacture an affordable enterprise. :)
 
Originally posted by pyton357ru
Too bad that in Russia they are restricted.
How ironic. I have a bali in my possession made by Urkanian prison occupants...
 
Originally posted by pyton357ru
You've nearly talked me into buying a balisong! Too bad that in Russia they are restricted.

You really aren't missing much, IMO.
I say, if you can own a switch (auto) then, go with that,less dexterity in a push button, or failing that,a GOOD Spydie!

E-mail forumite glasshartt (Linda)
she sells far below MSRP and does
"international" shipping ;)

GlassHartt@aol.com



AET ;) (ATE on the Spyderco.com "home" forum ;))
 
Originally posted by Allen E. Treat
You really aren't missing much, IMO.
Originally posted by Allen E. Treat
My premise of posting this thread was to have a creative discussion,... My personal opinion(s) aside, I think We have disseminated the argument(s) for/against the "butterfly".
Gee, talk about being your own thread killer....

So, please tell us why you would make such a admission. Those of us who would disagree with you would really like to know.
 
I probably would have a Benchmade by now. I know my wife would. I have an old off brand butterfly that the Mrs. likes. Oh, might as well say it, it's hers now, just like the Chive. I like 'em. Are they the best entry level one-hander? Probably not. Are they cool? Oh, yeah. Sometimes a little cool goes a long way.

Frank
 
tonyccw wrote ...
How ironic. I have a bali in my possession made by Urkanian prison occupants...
The trick is that in Ukraine knife laws are VERY different from Russian( more liberal in Ukraine). So even when smuggling from Kiev to Moscow doesn't apppear to be rather easy, first russsian cop will confistcate the blade. :)
 
Originally posted by pyton357ru
The trick is that in Ukraine knife laws are VERY different from Russian( more liberal in Ukraine). :)
Actually, I find it funny that a prisoner in the Ukraines has more access to a bali than a Russian citizen..... :D
 
Hi guys!

This is an answer to Icon of sin; Tonyccw and roloss valdes.
I'm really sorry! I didn't mean to hurt your feelings by pointing the negative points I've found in your beloved balisongs. But that's me, I allways give the most unpassioned opinion I can because that's the only way one can give a fair jugement. I don't dislike balis I just posted here my experience when I tried to test them as hard working tools and got not so good results... I'm also sorry to have to tell you that I used a BM on the test well... There's not such thing as a perfect blade. The sturdiest are undoubtebly the fixed ones then you have the non fixed whose sturdiness depends mainly on the model/materials/construstion. My experience told me that I can´t relly on a bali as a working horse and I got better results with folders...
 
Sorry Allen!
I didn't mean to have my laundry done in your thread but I think some people should be invited to think less with their heart. Having an open mind and objective thinking is a great human quality.
 
Originally posted by diogo
I don't dislike balis I just posted here my experience when I tried to test them as hard working tools and got not so good results... I'm also sorry to have to tell you that I used a BM on the test well... There's not such thing as a perfect blade. My experience told me that I can´t relly on a bali as a working horse and I got better results with folders...
We're not questioning your experience. We're questioning whether you were fair in such a blanket statement based your experiences from using a poor sample, as opposed to those of us that have much farther range of samples. I have over 60 custom balisongs in my collection, and any one of them would have offered you a different result than the ones you had. Even BM made poor quality balisongs. But the current production versions have addressed many of the shortcomings of the old ones, and you would be doing it a major disservice by not having an open mind as to their capabilities.
 
Originally posted by diogo
I didn't mean to have my laundry done in your thread but I think some people should be invited to think less with their heart. Having an open mind and objective thinking is a great human quality.
If you truly had an open mind, you'll want to find out why so many of us had positive experiences with the balisongs. It's not just a heart thing. If you ask the members of the Balisong forum, they can tell you I take a very serious subjective approach to the balisong. Yes I have a passion for it, but it's a passion that've been earned through almost 30 years of knife buying/using/collecting.

As for Allen, I'm still waiting for his rationale as to why he personally feels that Bali's are not worth it.
 
I gess I didn't make myself clear... It was not my experience that I wanted to hilight, it was your reaction to a not so good opinion about balis. Of course you're right when you say that my sample might be insignificant or non representative of all the balis, but that's how knowlege evolutes. One's conclusions or results will be ones truth until the contrary is shown or proven. This does mean that one will be stucked with his ideas. We must recognise the weak points in our research, which are concerned with sampling in 99% of one's work or study and be open minded to other results and conclusions... Maybe I caugh an outlier, so I ask you to share your opinion/experience about balis as a hard working tool so we forumites all learn more about balis and finally get a big and significant sample to make the best jugement. But don´t forget to give a real hard work to each one of the knifes tested.
 
My balis are my hard working EDCs. I've used them for absolutly everything one can imagine (and several things one shouldn't) and haven't had any problems (with quality ones of course). If you look at the balisong from a physics/design point of view it is better suited for work than any other type of folder out there. Am I obsessed? Yes. Am I passionate? Yes, but I got that way for a reason. I didn't just pick up a balisong and say hey this looks pretty I'm going to become a fanatic. I've used and abused them, and we have gron on each other.
 
Back
Top