Button lock wear?

[000Robert]

My Kershaw Launch 1 has been opened and closed many times and the button lock doesn't even have a scratch on it. The blade locks up tight and everything looks good and works perfectly.

 

[evilgreg]

None of my button lock out the side auto have even a scratch on their button bars. For the fun of it I disassembled a couple that I couldn't inspect otherwise, which turned into an adventure on one of them that's a bit tricky to get back together, but none of the knives I looked at had any marks. That said, all of the knives I looked at had separate stop pins that were absorbing the impact of the blade flying open.

Is the button lock bar acting as the stop pin on the knife this thread is about? That would make the dings make more sense.

 

[Kmikaz3]

None of my button lock out the side auto have even a scratch on their button bars. For the fun of it I disassembled a couple that I couldn't inspect otherwise, which turned into an adventure on one of them that's a bit tricky to get back together, but none of the knives I looked at had any marks. That said, all of the knives I looked at had separate stop pins that were absorbing the impact of the blade flying open.

Is the button lock bar acting as the stop pin on the knife this thread is about? That would make the dings make more sense.

No the thumbstud acts as stop pin in this case. Not sure wheres all the marks came from but i had to stop using it because more and more started to develop. My dealer says if they were in my shoes and turned out to be « normal » they themselves wouldn’t be comfortable to keep the knife. But i haven’t received the answer from Jake yet so « normal » is hypothetical.

 

[Kmikaz3]

Ive added a poll, what would you do?

 

[evilgreg]

No the thumbstud acts as stop pin in this case. Not sure wheres all the marks came from but i had to stop using it because more and more started to develop. My dealer says if they were in my shoes and turned out to be « normal » they themselves wouldn’t be comfortable to keep the knife. But i haven’t received the answer from Jake yet so « normal » is hypothetical.

I can't figure any way you'd get those dings in use (that is, assuming they weren't put there when it was manufactured) unless the blade was whacking into the lock bar on open. Are you 100% sure the thumbstuds hit before the lock seats?

 

[Kmikaz3]

I can't figure any way you'd get those dings in use (that is, assuming they weren't put there when it was manufactured) unless the blade was whacking into the lock bar on open. Are you 100% sure the thumbstuds hit before the lock seats?

Yes, this is the thumbstud. The ano actually started to wear from hitting the scale. I can’t disassemble the knife as this one is probably going back to the dealer, so i can’t tell what is going on inside. Only Jake himself can say but i probably will hear back from him during business days.

 

[Danke42]

Is it actually wear or is it just material transfer?

 

[Kmikaz3]

Is it actually wear or is it just material transfer?

Are we talking about the thumbstuds or the button lock? If the thumbstuds, yes the anodization is literally wearing off and so the scale. As for the button it get damaged from something inside presumably some geometry from the tang

 

[unwisefool]

I've had a few button locks and never had wear like that. My Freeman 451 has been used hard and banged open a lot and the button lock barrel inside still looks much better than that. I'd send it back and wait for version 2 of the knife. Also, it bothers me that the thumb studs and frame are slightly different colors.

 

[Kmikaz3]

Also, it bothers me that the thumb studs and frame are slightly different colors.

It comes with two variants, blue or bronze ano. The parts that are anodized are the thumbstuds, backspacer and the milled pocket clip. So yes, the difference in color is intentional. But also yes, i do think the first production run needs a revision.

 

[soc_monki]

That does not look good to me. I'd return it and either keep the money or get the benchmade. Up to you. I would expect some marking on an older knife, but certainly not one brand new like that. I had a Milwaukee fastback knife that was a button lock and I don't even think it looked like that and it was abused!

 

[Kmikaz3]

That does not look good to me. I'd return it and either keep the money or get the benchmade. Up to you. I would expect some marking on an older knife, but certainly not one brand new like that. I had a Milwaukee fastback knife that was a button lock and I don't even think it looked like that and it was abused!

It will depends on what Jake have to say. If is in fact a defect, i might have to return it. I know most of you want me to have my money back but i might caved for the Anthem tho.

 

[Danke42]

Are we talking about the thumbstuds or the button lock? If the thumbstuds, yes the anodization is literally wearing off and so the scale. As for the button it get damaged from something inside presumably some geometry from the tang

The lock. Material transfer can be normal and not a big deal. But if there's visible damage then yeah it's a problem.

 

[Kmikaz3]

Well seems like i did some unintentional bad press but ill try to rectify my aim. I still have faith in Jake as i own 5 knives of his. But here is his reply and i’ll trust what he say.

« Hi,
I was hoping you would reach out to us, I had a long time collector inform me about a less than stellar post made by someone on Blade forums about my new Sumo design so I was hoping to be able to chat with whoever it was that had the issue so it could get sorted out. Really our customer service is always on the look out for any issues or questions and always ready and willing to help as long as we know about what’s going on.


I read the thread over, but I don’t have a login to Blade forums so I wasn’t able to reach out to you to correct your misunderstanding of the design/materials/and situation. It is very unfortunate that you made the post as you didn’t give me chance to speak with you about the issue before it gave us negative press.


To be somewhat forward… your knife has nothing wrong with it. But I would like to explain why it is doing what you see and how so that you have a clear understanding of the nature of it all. Please feel free to post this email on blade forums so people don’t think we make a sub standard product.

• 1st button material: 17-4ph H1100 hardness. Which equates to about 34HRC converted. I have found through testing that having a button that is as hard as the blade will cause issues with lock stick/slip/breakage, so we use 17-4PH H1100 as a perfect candidate material for button locks. Most places use 440c but I have found that it does not work as well as 17-4PH, but the issue lays in the fact that 440C is less expensive than 17-4 so often it gets used for that reason. We don’t compromise when it comes to materials.
• 2nd The minor wear you are seeing is from two things.

1. When you open the knife the button acts as the detent, so there will be minor wear as the button overcomes the spring pressure and releases the blade. The button is portion that touches the blade is roughly .250 dia, which is measuring the wear pattern (looks to be about .02 wide) you would have a theoretical wear cycle of at the very least 1000 openings per .02 section equating to 12,500 openings before wear “could” present its self as a issue. I’m highly dubious this will ever be an issue in using the knife as it was intended (as a cutting implement)
2. The button acts as the lock face when open, minor wear point as the thumb studs stop the blade and the button just holds it open. Unless your beating on the spine of the knife, you will not really see much if any wear from this part of the mechanism. So I would say you should get between 20,000-50,000 locking cycles. But I have no empirical evidence to back this up.

Having a said that very long winded response. Ill back it up with our normal message to anyone who has ever bought something from me. Send me a message and if there is a legitimate issue Ill fix it. If you wear the knife out more than likely there will only be a nominal charge to get it functioning again. Pretty simple and easy.


Please feel free to post this email in its entirety on Blade forums or anywhere else you made posts about this so people can see that we addressed your issues and are available any time, so long as we know there is a problem. I’m still sorting out my mind reading capabilities so you’ll have to bare with me until I get that sorted if you don’t post this email Ill see if I can get a login and do so my self.


P.S. to the person/s who think titanium is a better button or stronger than stainless steel, they need to actually ready some empirical data and stop posting erroneous information. They are incorrect. Titanium makes a terrible lock either button/leaf/liner/ or anything else for that matter. The only good thing it has going for it is, its natural tendency to spring back to original shape, and its super cool (or so I’ve been told) but what do I know? I’ve only been a knife maker for a short time .


Thank you and God bless,

Jake Hoback »

 

[Kmikaz3]

Ps yes im the guy that thought Titanium would be stronger than Stainless Steel.... but im also a clueless one too . Better get my facts straight before posting some dumb info.

 

[unwisefool]

Ok, I'm not trying to start trouble, but there are a number of other button lock knives that don't exhibit that much wear even after a few years of use. But his explanation is that his is superior because it's designed like that? Interesting.

 

[Danke42]

Well he's not the first custom maker to get kinda prickly when poked. For some reason I though this was a different much larger brand.

I would stay to reach out to him directly just in case for the future and keep using it.

I'm in Canada too and I've sent knives back and forth across the border with no issues and some have been opened and inspected by the CBSA but I don't buy button locks in the USA because they might be a problem. It's too bad; I skipped a nice one from DLT because of this.

 

[Kmikaz3]

Ok, I'm not trying to start trouble, but there are a number of other button lock knives that don't exhibit that much wear even after a few years of use. But his explanation is that his is superior because it's designed like that? Interesting.

My mordax doesn’t exhibit this kind of behaviour as well. But if he say its perfectly fine that i have around 50000 usages out if it before it fails... might as well using right? Still have some mileages to do.

 

[Kmikaz3]

Well he's not the first custom maker to get kinda prickly when poked. For some reason I though this was a different much larger brand.

I would stay to reach out to him directly just in case for the future and keep using it.

I'm in Canada too and I've sent knives back and forth across the border with no issues and some have been opened and inspected by the CBSA but I don't buy button locks in the USA because they might be a problem. It's too bad; I skipped a nice one from DLT because of this.

Yes i was at first kinda shocked with his reply... kinda passive aggressive... But i love his design, so water under the bridge.

 

[unwisefool]

My mordax doesn’t exhibit this kind of behaviour as well. But if he say its perfectly fine that i have around 50000 usages out if it before it fails... might as well using right? Still have some mileages to do.

Yeah I guess, that's up to you. Maybe he can send you a spare button part. Between the two I would have chosen the anthem, it's a nice knife.