Buyer Protection without G&S?

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Peter Hartwig said:
If using a non guaranteed transfer such as PP FF ,money orders or something else you may want to go over the terms of the seller . Regardless of forum rules, this will vary presumming you are not dealing with one of the very few all out scammers. Many will offer the same protection(based on their word and honor) that PP G&S offers. With these they take care of their problems and you never would have needed to file a claim. They will guarantee delivery and take back the item(no problem) if not as described or you are unhappy with it. There are others however that feel once they have your money and it is sent, they are done and the money gets spent. Worth your time to make sure you are dealing with the former. A little concersation can often tell you a lot about the person you are dealing with.
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That’s pretty serious vetting, more than I’ve imagined, but good advice.

Peter Hartwig said:
IF you want to avoid all risk, buy from BF trusted dealers
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I’ve been happy to support the dealers (& all that entails). But when a very appealing item is posted at a decent price on the Exchange, it’s disheartening to read, “F&F, Venmo…only.”

The risk is all part of the “is it worth it to me” inner monologue. Generally, if the item is >$200, the answer to my inner monologue is, “No.”

Ergo, this thread. Thanks to all that have participated.
 
Peter Hartwig said:
If using a non guaranteed transfer such as PP FF ,money orders or something else you may want to go over the terms of the seller . Regardless of forum rules, this will vary presumming you are not dealing with one of the very few all out scammers. Many will offer the same protection(based on their word and honor) that PP G&S offers. With these they take care of their problems and you never would have needed to file a claim. They will guarantee delivery and take back the item(no problem) if not as described or you are unhappy with it. There are others however that feel once they have your money and it is sent, they are done and the money gets spent. Worth your time to make sure you are dealing with the former. A little concersation can often tell you a lot about the person you are dealing with.
IF you want to avoid all risk, buy from BF trusted dealers
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This....


Also, imo
Buying using USPO money orders adds a bit of realism.... Deal with people who use their primary residence.... You get their first and last names....ask for a phone number, call them, talk to them....they become Real People pretty quick.
Not just boblikesknives@aol or whatever handle we use here.

Mail fraud is pretty serious.
 
Wild Willie said:
Where I take issue is guys getting worked up about it being a sign of bad character to not do this by the book. Anyone who has gone 3 miles over the speed limit is still breaking the law and nobody gets worked up over that. Anybody have a drink or cigarette before they'd attained legal age? Still broke the law...
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This 100%. Willfully breaking the law by going 1 mph over, now let’s judge character [redacted emoticon]
 
Crag the Brewer said:
This....


Also, imo
Buying using USPO money orders adds a bit of realism.... Deal with people who use their primary residence.... You get their first and last names....ask for a phone number, call them, talk to them....they become Real People pretty quick.
Not just boblikesknives@aol or whatever handle we use here.

Mail fraud is pretty serious.
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Thumbs up to this post.

Some other payment options that have all the hallmarks of "talking with a real person" are Apple Pay (requires iPhones on both ends), Zelle, or CashApp. Note all three are equivalent to transacting electronic cash, so there is absolutely no buyer protection. However, you aren't violating any T&S AFAIK, unlike PayPal F&F.

Apple Pay is a bit reassuring, since you request and send funds via a text message that is tied to your Apple Wallet on the iPhone, and you can be in touch via text messages. Both Zelle and CashApp are generally tied to your phone number, which provides slightly more assurance than an email. Note, though Zelle can be tied to an email, but most prefer it with a phone number for convenience.

Of course, more privacy conscious individuals may not want to exchange personal cellphone numbers, but then this goes back to again thoroughly vetting the buyer and seller. If you feel confident, only then deal, else not.
 
I wouldn’t mind at all using PP F&F if payment is due on receipt of a knife.

Sound weird ? Not really, risk is the same just the shoe is on the other side.
 
ferider said:
I wouldn’t mind at all using PP F&F if payment is due on receipt of a knife.

Sound weird ? Not really, risk is the same just the shoe is on the other side.
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For another well known member with substantial feedback I honestly wouldn't mind shipping the knife first and then receiving payment once the knife arrived.

BUT that doesn't help with the issue of hacked accounts and in fact may be worse. If a hacker got control of an account with good feedback they could go on a "buying spree" and then never pay up. Probably even easier to scam a large number of people than it would be as a seller, because they could make offers via private message and so nobody would see anything suspicious.
 
Random Dan said:
For another well known member with substantial feedback I honestly wouldn't mind shipping the knife first and then receiving payment once the knife arrived.
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Really? If both are a "well known member with substantial feedback" then what is the problem with paying first? I prefer to receive a payment before shipping a knife, but you're free to set your own terms.
 
King of the Cheese said:
Thats apples vs. oranges. Plenty of people sell under f&f that conduct flawless transactions. They aren’t ripping PayPal off.. they’re really ripping off the IRS. PayPal just won’t pay a claim if there’s a loss. You pay PayPal for the insurance, NOT the taxes.
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Not talking about the IRS blah blah, facts is that Paypal provides a service and they charge a fee for providing said service. Just like any business pays a fee for taking a credit card to the credit processing company. Out of the goodness of their heart (unless there is some other reason that I don't know or understand) Paypal allows you to send money to, um, friends and family without being charged that fee. Using their service to sell goods to a stranger via "friends and family" is STEALING their service.

*mic drop*
 
71rockstar said:
Not talking about the IRS blah blah, facts is that Paypal provides a service and they charge a fee for providing said service. Just like any business pays a fee for taking a credit card to the credit processing company. Out of the goodness of their heart (unless there is some other reason that I don't know or understand) Paypal allows you to send money to, um, friends and family without being charged that fee. Using their service to sell goods to a stranger via "friends and family" is STEALING their service.

*mic drop*
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So call the cops and report us all for theft if it’s “stealing”. You can’t force any of us to sell g&s. How about them apples?

*mic drop*
 
BD_01 said:
With all due respect folks, the morality of F&F has been beaten (though seeming not to death) on this forum for years. Start a dedicated thread if you want to keep beating it.

There’s also this thread for bitching and moaning about taxes and 1099’s.

I’d like to keep this thread open to see if anyone other than ferider ferider has actual ideas about purchase protection. Thanks for your input ferider ferider .
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Apologies to the OP, sorry for adding to the derailing of your thread. I don't have a good answer to your question, so I'll respectfully return to the shadows.
 
71rockstar said:
Not talking about the IRS blah blah, facts is that Paypal provides a service and they charge a fee for providing said service. Just like any business pays a fee for taking a credit card to the credit processing company. Out of the goodness of their heart (unless there is some other reason that I don't know or understand) Paypal allows you to send money to, um, friends and family without being charged that fee. Using their service to sell goods to a stranger via "friends and family" is STEALING their service.

*mic drop*
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Oops...looks like you bought this bead from a seller only accepting PayPal F&F

JBB Zirc Bead

Has a very tiny ding that came with it. Good condition. SOLD shipped ConUS. PayPal F&f only.
www.bladeforums.com www.bladeforums.com
 
Regarding the OP:
This subject has already been discussed ad-nauseam, and everyone here already knows the deal (there isn't any protection as a buyer when using PPFF or some of these other services when sending/receiving $$$).

Since PayPal played their cards and went all Woke (and it IS Political), this is when this F&F/1099 tax BS excuse all started. You can either choose to support/use WokePal, or not.

As a seller: After this Woke BS all went down with PP, I personally deactivated my PP account. Since then I've had zero problems navigating different means to transact here (local FTF $ cash transactions/accepting personal checks from trusting/reputable member's here). The real problem is, many here don't seem to have any patience anymore; everything has to be right now for this spoiled/entitled "I want it now," Generation.


Nebuchadnezzar said:
If people quit sending FF then sellers will quit demanding it. Be the change you want to see. :)
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People here should be thanking the masses, those of us who had the balls to take a stand and send PayPal a clear and decisive message- telling them to basiclly, "GO F%*K YOURSELF!"

For if it hadn't been for us, PayPal would be continuing down their Woke agenda path of total control.....and they would be stealing YOUR $$$ right now, for any reason that they unilaterally deemed fit; anything that went against their Woke Liberal narrative they support. They are no different than MSM/SM in regards to the blatant censorship going on. < It's a fact, and it's all clearly documented in black and white.


71rockstar said:
Not talking about the IRS blah blah, facts is that Paypal provides a service and they charge a fee for providing said service. Just like any business pays a fee for taking a credit card to the credit processing company. Out of the goodness of their heart (unless there is some other reason that I don't know or understand) Paypal allows you to send money to, um, friends and family without being charged that fee. Using their service to sell goods to a stranger via "friends and family" is STEALING their service.
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You nailed it!

Regarding 71rockstar: You're 1 of the consummate professionals I've had the privilege of dealing with here in the past. Your feedback is a reflection of that. As a seller, you always sold your knives via PP G&S. You're 1 of the few member's here, whom I would deal with and accept a personal check from.

If you want some real perspective: Be thankful! You've been a stellar member here since 2009, yet you've only posted here a little over 200 times during these past 14 years...... and yet have been able to use this place and enjoy this hobby.....

That "ALL YOU CAN BE," want to be Army Ranger you quoted (The Mr. 65K post whore troll here who will soon be 1 100k ), who spends his entire existence here, arguing with anyone and everyone..... because of his shortcomings/inferiority complex in life......

You could always be him... The internet and crack phones......

Get busy livin, or.......

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