Buyers beware>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I came across this pic today...

Weilandvector2.jpg


This vector pic opens a big issue...

The maker had/has no authorization whatsoever to reproduce this design.

Intellectual property is protected and there is a big issue over copyright
infringments that he is doing.
The design of the vector
is now under microtech's protection since I sold the rights to them.

This is the only prototype (read that one..) done of the Vector and I'm the only owner of it:

vector.jpg


I have never authorized this maker to make any additional Vectors and there is only
one prototype, no more.

I will send a letter to the Guild maker's association and the florida
knifemaker's association so they can be aware of the situation.

So be aware and don't buy any Vector "prototype" since I have the only one ever done.

For your regular Vector needs, feel free to contact Microtech knives for different versions.

Best regards,

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Joel Pirela
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www.pirelabladedesign.com
 
T

Taz

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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I get so mad when I see some company design a knife, then another company rips off the design. Some designs are universal, and a lot are very unique and it is obvious when someone rips one off, like the Vector. I love that blade style and wish I could afford a MT, but I need to make some $$$ by making my own knives first
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Hmmm. I was toying with the idea of making a SubHilt Fixed blade with a Vector style blade.

View


Like this design. Who would I contact to get permission to make it if I decide I am brave enought to try to make it?? The blade style is like the Vector, but not totally. Thanks!
 
Joel:
Was the maker of the knife in question also the maker of the prototype.

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Member--Texas Knife Makers and Collectors Association
 
So this "Bootleg Vector" is made bay the same maker that made the prototype? I would like a link to this makers site. I own two MT Vectors and would like more info on this.

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Drac Noroc

You only know if you have been there...
 
Joel,
Instead of starting a smear campaign on the internet, why don't you contact the individual and see what the deal is.

I know you haven't yet and I think you are jumping to conclusions.

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"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
George Orwell
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Dogman,

I'm not jumping into anything.

It was supposed to be "one" (1) vector prototype.

Now there are two (2) and nobody ever asked me anything...

I don't need clarification to see what the deal is.

Joel
 
I for one would like some clarification on this issue. It would be a refreshing change.

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Drac Noroc

You only know if you have been there...
 
First of all, let me say that copying someone else's work simply shows a lack of creativity of your own. Doing so is
to admit that you basically can't think. Why anyone would do that, I don't know.

Second, I have not seen either of these knives other than the pictures shown here, but I do have to say that the
"copy" looks good in the pictures. (At the risk of being offensive, and having never seen either knife in person, I
have to say that I like the looks of the "copy" better than the original. Sorry.)

How clever of you to use a hole in the blade to facilitate one-handed opening. Was that an original idea? I don't
think I've ever seen anything like it. Certainly, Spyderco wouldn't have any patents on anything like that. I like
the innovative use of a clip on the side of the knife to carry it. How do you think of these creative ideas? And
what is the locking mechanism on this design? Is that also something new and unique that you designed yourself?
I can see why you would be upset if someone copied your work.

Einstein once said, "If I am tall, it is because I am standing on the shoulders of giants."

Finally, I am not a lawyer, but as I look at the two, while there are substantial similarities, yes, I can also see
some substantial differences. The most obvious and significant being the change to a thumb stud from a blade
hole. That's a substantial change. The pierceing of the blade is different. The recurve is different. And, while it's
hard to tell from the picture given lighting, the cut of the upper part of the spine/swedge looks different. The
blade geometries of these two knives are very similar, yes. But they are, nonetheless, different. Different enough,
perhaps, to not be a copyright violation. The bodies are obviously similarly shaped, but also obviously differently
constructed. While the maker of this "copy" has obviously taken considerably "inspiration" from your design to the
point of being both unethical and despicable, I'm not sure you'd have a case legally. Sorry.

Copying is the sincerest form of compliment.


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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 
UPDATE:
Talked to the maker.
He apologized for the mistake he made some time ago without knowing.

No actions will be taken. There is still only one (1) prototype to date.

Thanx for the help!


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Joel Pirela
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www.pirelabladedesign.com
 
Is the "bootlegged" knife (which feaures substantially different, and superior grind lines IMO), actually being marketed by the maker as a "Vector Prototype"? If so there may be an infringement case, but really I doubt that it would succeed or even be worth the effort. I mean, look at Emerson's CQC-6 design. If he wanted to be a prick I'm sure that he could try and go after Lightfoot, Helton, Farid, S&W and countless other makers who have produced "CQC6-esque" designs. All art is derivative, execpt for the work of a few true visionaries, and as they say: "Imitation is the highest form of flattery"
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Taz:


Who would I contact to get permission to make it if I decide I am brave enought to try to make it?? </font>
Click to expand...

Ahhhhh....Nurse Ratched?

 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I'm not jumping into anything.

It was supposed to be "one" (1) vector prototype.

Now there are two (2) and nobody ever asked me anything...</font>
Click to expand...

Cool your jets big P. As the acknowledged designer of the Vector, you get to decide what is a prototype and what is just a "me-too-wanta-be."

Regardless of how many this other maker may produce and regardless of how many the folks at Happy Smokestack Manfuacturing in Taiwan are tooling up to produce as we speak (they'd have those stamping machines rolling right now but they're having trouble getting ahold of cheap enough steel), you will always own the only Vector prototype.... but, after the discussions here, it just may not be worth as much anymore.

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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com

[This message has been edited by Gollnick (edited 03-02-2001).]
 
Let's move this over to the GB+U forum.
David

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AKTI# A000150
NC Custom Knifemakers Guild member
NC Knife Knuts member
 
Joel,
Since you won't tell the entire story, I will. You gave enough clues in your first post so that it would take no time for someone to figure out who you are talking about and drop their name. Reese doesn't hang out on the forums, so if I would not have called him, he would have been clueless. I am his friend and I work out of his shop, just so everyone knows where I am coming from.

Reese gives you full credit on his web site and links to your web site for the prototypes he built for you. He built this particular knife well before you sold the design to Microtech. He never represented it as a prototype. The similarities are obvious, but a knifemaker or serious collector can see the differences immediately, even from the pictures. Should he have called you before he made it? Absolutely. Did he call you when someone asked hem to make another one? Yes, and when you told him you didn't want anyone making the design, he never did. This could have easily been resolved with a simple phone call. If someone else misrepresented the knife, it certainly wasn't Reese. BTW, that handle on your prototype looks really similar to the Hawk, which Reese designed. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

I have always been neutral on the forums, but this really pisses me off. Even if you presented the whole story, the damage has already been done. Reese is a full time maker. He feeds and shelters his family with his knifemaking skills. He has no time to hang out on the forums. With a little forethought and private investigation, you could have gotten the answers you desire, without dragging this in public. Your little excuse about warning "buyers" is a crock of sh1t.

Everyone who has dealt with Reese knows he is a straight shooter. He does more behind the scenes stuff to help knifemakers than anyone I have ever met and he doesn't go around banging his chest about it.

You put this in public, so I am responding in public. I will post the same message on all the threads.

Bob Doggett


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"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
George Orwell
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I do not understand why someone can do somthing such as this without trying to settle it privately first,I have a 2yr old with more decency and respect for other people than is displayed by Mr Pirela.
 
The other side of the story....

Time frame of the vector design:

Contracted Reese to make the knife on March, deilvered on August, Tony saw it on September, close the deal with Tony on October and Microtech Vector done in December for SHOT Show.

Reese did this knife (the vector 2) without my knowlege, and knowing my position with my prototypes and the way I control them in the market, to guarantee the exclusivity of my designs to my customers.

You have to be in my position to really understand how I feel when I see stuff like this.

I didn't know if Reese did this last week or last year. (either way it was wrong...)

Reese called me today, apologized and offered to post an explanation regarding the existence of only one prototype. I told him it wasn't neccessary.

The person that sent me the e-mail this morning with the photo told me that he was told that he was buying one of 2 of a kind Vector.

I'm a person that hates the spotlight and pandemonium but like you said, a phone call asking for permission could it save a lot of this.

Did I handled this correctly? maybe yes, maybe not.

My point was to make customers aware of this knife floating away and that was not an original vector, not to prosecute Reese.

regards,

Joel Pirela
 
so if I make a knife just like that it is bad? or an axis lock on my personal knife? Or I make a speed safe for my friend that is bad? and what exactly is anyone going to do about it??????????????? basically..nothing. Just like Spyderco isnt calling you right now for putting a round HOLE in your prototype! Imitation is the highest form of flattery....and that knife pictured at the top is ONE NICE KNIFE!!
 
Tom,

Spyderco won't do anything if you do the spyderhole to your personal knife.

Now, if you sell a bunch of knives with holes on the blade, that's another story.

This issue is a dead horse. Let's keep beating it just in case is sleeping
wink.gif


Joel

btw, both knives were done by the same maker, so critics on each one is worthless.
 
I'm in total agreement with Dogman (Bob)! This should have been settled in private, and not in public like it has. To smear someone's name through the mud, before he/she has had a chance to answer to the charges brought against them is just <u>WRONG</u>.

Let me ask you something Joel... What did you design on this knife that is original? Maybe a new locking system, or maybe a new way to open a knife! Reese has done nothing wrong!

After he made you money, you do this to him. You don't even have the talent to make your own knife, and when someone else makes it for you, this is how you repay him... you drag his name through the mud. Nice guy! <h2>NOT!</h2>

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BC... For those who fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know... Semper Fi
 
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