Buying multiple knives as soon as available, to resell most

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Ted01

Ted01

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This thread is for discussing the practice of buying multiple knives (e.g. Great Eastern Cutlery knives, which are produced in limited numbers) as soon as they become available on a distributor's website, with the intent to keep one or more knives for oneself and reselling the others, perhaps for a profit. Sometimes desirable knives sell out in a few minutes, and such a practice would make it more difficult for others who want to buy one or two for themselves. Thoughts, pro and con?

Moderators, if this thread belongs in a different sub forum, please move it accordingly.
 
There is no perfect system for it. The best way to ensure you get the knife you want is to contact the distributor and ask to be notified of the knives arrival.

While I know some individuals may be in rural areas without much service, with technology today buying a knife when it is released can be accomplished on most mobile devices. If individuals are buying multiples with the intent of speculating on their future value, if that's what they want to do with their money, you can't fault them. It may not seem fair when you're the one missing out, but from the dealers perspective, how can they fairly differentiate?

With such a high demand for certain profiles hopefully the supply will increase in the future. Eventually there will be a happy medium, it may just take some time. Selling out of a model in minutes might indicate that the perceived value is higher than the sale price, especially compared to the market demand. To meet this would mean higher prices, and who wants that? Not me
 
People don't seem to have any shame with regard to this strategy, so I'll be interested to find out what people think about it.
 
There have been flippers since the dawn of time. If you find a way to stop it let me know so I can sell my stocks first.
 
Total assholes. Not cool at all. Limit numbers available to buyers to 2. I understand it still could be worked around but it certainly would help slow it down.
 
Ted01 said:
This thread is for discussing the practice of buying multiple knives (e.g. Great Eastern Cutlery knives, which are produced in limited numbers) as soon as they become available on a distributor's website, with the intent to keep one or more knives for oneself and reselling the others, perhaps for a profit. Sometimes desirable knives sell out in a few minutes, and such a practice would make it more difficult for others who want to buy one or two for themselves. Thoughts, pro and con?
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Let's see now. Buy something, then turn around and sell it for a profit. What's that called again? Oh yeah . . . capitalism.

Unless the seller is willing to limit availability in some fashion, there's little anyone can do.
 
I think limiting orders to two of an identical model(scale and blade) for the first 12 hours would be a respectable practice.
 
I'm surprised the dealers or GEC themselves don't crank up the price some more. If people are going to pay $180 for one of those Ancient Barlows it might as well be the people that make them that make the money as opposed to flippers.
 
Norcaldude said:
I'm surprised the dealers or GEC themselves don't crank up the price some more. If people are going to pay $180 for one of those Ancient Barlows it might as well be the people that make them that make the money as opposed to flippers.
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This is by true, but then theyd say the price is too high. You can't stop flippers, but yes it is extremely annoying, and it seems like companies such as Busse and GEC do aid in this tactic by releasing short runs of knives. Doesn't mean they are at fault, but it explains why this is a recurring theme. There honestly isn't anything that will stop this, unless people quit paying double what a knife originally cost. Which isn't likely with the demand for those knives that people resale..they know the models they flip are gonna be worth more. I fully support capitalism, but sometimes I wanna slap someone who asks triple the amount.
 
It's a free market economy at work. Knife manufacturers and distributors are businesses. Their only responsibility is to succeed. Anything else really is going over and above. If they choose to limit sales to individuals to stop flipping good on them, but why would they deliberately stop a sure bulk sale in the hope that more buyers will buy the rest? From a business perspective that's a needless risk.

Having said that, career flippers who buy in bulk are often needless middlemen who are just waiting for (and deserving of) someone to undercut them.

So here's an idea: bladeforums is full of people who have an interest in the same knives, many of whom have an excellent relationship with distributors and online retailers; why not organise an early bulk buy?
 
Especially for knives that sell out in minutes, I would like to see GEC do a second production run. With such high demand, GEC would almost surely sell them all. What better situation for a knife maker than to have a guaranteed buyer before production begins? GEC wins and the knife community wins because more people get to enjoy these fine knives.

I am guessing the distributor/dealers can gauge buyer interest just from pre-release calls and emails from customers and having their ear to the ground. When they judge the demand to be much greater than available supply, I would like to see the distributor/dealers implement some way for all buyers to have an equal chance at buying the knife. I guess this means some kind of lottery. As a buyer, if I knew I had the same chance as the next guy, I wouldn't feel so bad when it turns out that I am not one of the lucky buyers. There are knives where I didn't even have a chance, and that is frustrating.
 
It happens...but I do sort of wish BF would enforce its own policy and make them buy a dealer membership.
 
hhmoore said:
It happens...but I do sort of wish BF would enforce its own policy and make them buy a dealer membership.
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That sounds so simple doesn't it? How many times does someone have to buy multiples and sell one or more for profit to be considered a dealer? How many knives being sold by an individual determine if they are dealer. How do we know if someone bought multiples for the sole purpose of flipping for profit? These are just a few of the many questions we have to work through to determine who is a dealer and who is simply a prolific buyer who sells down the road. We expect people to be honest and buy the correct membership and not try and skirt the rules. When we find people that fit the criteria of a dealer, we compel them to get the correct membership.
 
Look at the dealer websites: all have scores of knives from unpopular patterns that never sell; that is a loss. What possible motivation do they have to limit sales in any sense? Running a small business is a huge gamble, and it's (in my opinion) tasteless and insulting to ask a businessman to put a restriction on what would otherwise be the lone sure sale of his month.

As for the flippers themselves, they are not breaking any rules of which I'm aware. But, don't act like there aren't consequences. We all know the best scores happen behind the scenes amongst friends or those with good street cred. People who are known flippers can pretty much rely on only scoring through dealers, as most individuals won't give them the time of day.
 
Believe me, I fully understand what it would entail...and the grey area that would still remain. I also know what it would be like trying to enforce it, and how relatively easily people could work around it; so my comment wasn't a call to action, and it absolutely wasn't intended as a shot against the moderators. (Still, though, I sorta wish...)
As I said - it happens - heck, I've even bought from a couple of them when my desire and the asking price weren't at odds.
 
Since I don't well tolerate being told how to live, I come down strongly on the side of not telling others how to live. If a guy wants to buy and flip knives, using his time and his money and his effort, it is hardly any of my business.

Consider Spyderco sprint runs as an example. I take the time and effort to stay on top of these sprint runs, and to buy one or two of them if its a knife that I like. I watch the forums and check out the vendor websites for intel. Its sorta fun. If someone else won't make that effort because they are playing on the X Box all day, then its their fault when they can't get a sprint run knife and have to buy one, if at all, on eBay at an inflated price. These are exactly the same people who will whine that other people got there first, and then call them "greedy".

We play on a level playing field, with winners and losers. We all have the same interweb, the same credit cards and the same 24 hours every day. If a guy gets to a web site and buys every limited edition knife offered before I can get to them, then it teaches me to be faster and smarter next time. But its hardly something I will whine about. If there is anyone at fault, its me for not putting in the effort - not the other guy. But it all derives from your worldview. Some people want to tell everyone else how to live, and others just want to be left alone to rise or fall based on their own efforts. Flipping knives is a small part of life, but you can sure tell a lot about a person based on how they react to it.
 
MrVandercar said:
I think limiting orders to two of an identical model(scale and blade) for the first 12 hours would be a respectable practice.
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I know at least one GE dealer has a similar policy in place for early reserves, for what that's worth.
 
Ted01 said:
There are knives where I didn't even have a chance, and that is frustrating.
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This is true. I've missed out too. But we are not talking about potatoes during a famine, or gasoline for your generator after the hurricane. [And I know you aren't saying that]. Collectible knives, exclusive runs and limited edition knives are just expensive toys. There is nothing inherently unfair, inequitable or immoral about not getting the toy that we want, because no one starves if everyone doesn't get one.

If I hoard potatoes while my neighbor starves, there should be moral, social and political pressure brought to bear that alters my behavior. But there is no moral wrong if I hoard and flip GECs and Spydercos, because my neighbor can get by just fine with his Case XX and Benchmade.
 
Ted01 said:
I would like to see the distributor/dealers implement some way for all buyers to have an equal chance at buying the knife. I guess this means some kind of lottery. As a buyer, if I knew I had the same chance as the next guy, I wouldn't feel so bad when it turns out that I am not one of the lucky buyers. There are knives where I didn't even have a chance, and that is frustrating.
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There's about 8 main distributors for GEC's, and many others that sell in smaller supplies. Out of the main distributors, there's half of them that have an early reserve and a few others that give some sort of heads up when knives go up for sale, whether it's on the forum or through an email, Facebook post, etc.

Everyone to a point does have an equal chance. You just have to do the legwork and get on those reserve lists before they fill up, which for a knife like the TC Barlow, fill up in literal seconds. All you have to do it refresh the page or blink an eye and you're out. Why is this? Well when you have a run of 45 knives, each dealer/distributor is only going to get a handful of them. So, in the case of Collector Knives, who has a text and email alert for the reserve, you now have hundreds of people clammoring to reserve one of the 17 knives that they may get in stock. Remember also that it's not just blade forum members trying for these knives....

It's extremely competitive and that's what makes certain knives sell for more immediately after the fact. The demand is through the roof when the supply is really low. It was brought up earlier that there's a lot of behind the scenes deals going on. A lot of guys hold the rare and sought after knives and basically trade or sell to people in their circle keeping them from the masses which makes it seem like no one else ever had a chance. Well in a sense, no we don't unless you can get them right out of the gate through the reserve.

In the case of traditonals, I really don't think there's as many people as it is thought buying for the sole purpose of flipping the leftovers. A lot of guys, myself included, buy multiples of a knife, usually different handle scales, to see what we like best since there can be a lot of variation from run to run. I'll keep one or two and sell the others for whatever the market price is going for. Does this happen every time a new knife comes out, absolutely not.

Also, we don't get to see these knives in hand, in a store. The only way to know if you'll like them is to buy them and get them in hand. If you don't like it, you have to sell at some point.
 
I see nothing wrong with it. Nothing is a sure deal, it's his risk and time and money he's gambling with.

I have a relative who thought the Queen made Winchesters in the 80's and 90's were going to be the new hot thing. He bought multiples of every single knife released, held them for 20 years, and is now selling them off for approximately what he paid for them 20 years ago. No profit made in that $2,000 endeavor. Actually, with all the celluloid outgassing, he's probably in the red on them.
 
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