I agree, and actually, I made my point poorly, because I had meant to continue the initial sentence to explain that there are vast differences between having something ruin your day, and being irritated by the existence of that situation. For me, it's irritation. Yes, I DO get irritated by scumbags, but it doesn't actually let it ruin my day. I was more or less speaking against this idea that we should let flippers bother us at all. Whereas, I think any rational being is going to have a moment of irritation at these parasites, that shouldn't be used as some sort of weakness on our part. The irritation I feel at the existence of parasites taking advantage of hobbyists is akin to the irritation I feel when I'm cut off in traffic. Eh, guy's a d-bag, but I'm not frothing at the mouth over it.
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I agree, and actually, I made my point poorly, because I had meant to continue the initial sentence to explain that there are vast differences between having something ruin your day, and being irritated by the existence of that situation. For me, it's irritation. Yes, I DO get irritated by scumbags, but it doesn't actually let it ruin my day. I was more or less speaking against this idea that we should let flippers bother us at all. Whereas, I think any rational being is going to have a moment of irritation at these parasites, that shouldn't be used as some sort of weakness on our part. The irritation I feel at the existence of parasites taking advantage of hobbyists is akin to the irritation I feel when I'm cut off in traffic. Eh, guy's a d-bag, but I'm not frothing at the mouth over it.
What I was thinking while reading, actually put to words.- Joined
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You must be using a different google than i.
An outside governing body that places caps on prices or quantity to be "fair" so that everyone has a chance, that's not a free market at all.
BUT, one of the great things about America, you have the right to be absolutely wrong.
Fairness is a concept, like Santa, and as children we are taught to believe in both. Neither exist in the real world.
Supply and demand, those are real concepts that have worked well for many decades.
Seeing guys on this forum do just that has turned me off of GEC's popular patterns. I used to spend time on the GEC dealers websites, used to spend time on BF, and used to spend time on eBay looking for patterns that I really wanted. I had a couple of TC's (got them through an unnamed source for a bargain of a price) and some 15's and other popular patterns.
But one day, I decided that I didn't want a 15 or a charlow or a 25 or a 77 or a beerlow anymore. I sold my TC's (for twice what I paid) and got rid of a lot of my other GEC's just bc I couldn't stand carrying them anymore. They made me think about how others cannot simply purchase one because they don't know the right person or don't sit at their desktop 24/7 just to hawk an entire shipment of knives. I got rid of them and I am happy I did it.
What I did instead was start looking at the patterns people weren't talking about. Now I have a 99 that I absolutely love. Guys are like "oh, the wall street pattern?" Yeah dude, the wall street pattern. And I seriously love the knife. I love slipping it into my pocket. I love cutting anything and everything with it. I love showing it off. I also have a 78 and 65. I feel the same about both. So let those guys buy up all of the charlows and flip them for ridiculous profits. I think it's lame to have a knife you don't carry and use anyways. Besides, there may be another pattern out there that you haven't discovered yet.
But one day, I decided that I didn't want a 15 or a charlow or a 25 or a 77 or a beerlow anymore. I sold my TC's (for twice what I paid) and got rid of a lot of my other GEC's just bc I couldn't stand carrying them anymore. They made me think about how others cannot simply purchase one because they don't know the right person or don't sit at their desktop 24/7 just to hawk an entire shipment of knives. I got rid of them and I am happy I did it.
What I did instead was start looking at the patterns people weren't talking about. Now I have a 99 that I absolutely love. Guys are like "oh, the wall street pattern?" Yeah dude, the wall street pattern. And I seriously love the knife. I love slipping it into my pocket. I love cutting anything and everything with it. I love showing it off. I also have a 78 and 65. I feel the same about both. So let those guys buy up all of the charlows and flip them for ridiculous profits. I think it's lame to have a knife you don't carry and use anyways. Besides, there may be another pattern out there that you haven't discovered yet.
Bmorgan brings up a point that was talked about in the, "Let's Talk About GEC" thread of the traditional subforum. We actually discussed the SFO and the general run and how some would like to see the general run line pick up more.
I did the same Bmorgan. I had a couple of dozen SFOs and needed the money. I sold some for a profit, some at price, some at a loss, and gave away a few. I myself carry knives that mean something to me. It could be a serialized pattern of my daughter's bday, a production date that is important, or a gifted knife. I let go of the hype surrounding certain patterns and SFO because I matured a little, not a lot. When I first started the SFO bug bit hard, I wanted the popular, the saught after. Now, I keep what I enjoy using and am content. I still fight the urge to pick up the new and shinny but remind myself I don't need it. I like having all knives that mean something or have a story attached.
Here here to the 99 Wall Street! I just hope they don't come out with my dream 81 now that Im done.
I did the same Bmorgan. I had a couple of dozen SFOs and needed the money. I sold some for a profit, some at price, some at a loss, and gave away a few. I myself carry knives that mean something to me. It could be a serialized pattern of my daughter's bday, a production date that is important, or a gifted knife. I let go of the hype surrounding certain patterns and SFO because I matured a little, not a lot. When I first started the SFO bug bit hard, I wanted the popular, the saught after. Now, I keep what I enjoy using and am content. I still fight the urge to pick up the new and shinny but remind myself I don't need it. I like having all knives that mean something or have a story attached.
Here here to the 99 Wall Street! I just hope they don't come out with my dream 81 now that Im done.
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BMorgan and KBA I agree with much of what you wrote about the GEC knives, luckily for me I've never been attracted to the major styles that are super popular with GEC, and the fanaticism/demand behind them further drives me away. Sometimes they are loved too much even before they are made, the "I'll buy one no matter what it is" attitude runs prevalent. I try to avoid the unfettered almost cult like status that these knives bring.
I like a lot of their lower demand popular knives like the 92 Eureka, 63 Mako, 57 Wrangler, 76 Outlaw, and my personal favourite the very underrated Executive Whittler. (I hate number designations so had to look at the knives in question to get them). To me they are solid, attractive hardworking knifes for the tasks I need them to fill.
I dislike the flipper attitude as well, it's contrary to what I feel a forum like this should be. It's the community over the business to me, and that's what makes this place great. I don't demand anybody conform to my thought process, so I do what I can to mitigate it within my purchasing experience. I have a set of conditions that allow me to exclude sellers based on how I perceive them.
The easiest way to avoid flippers in my experience is to actually USE KNIVES TO CUT STUFF!!! I cut with basically every knife I own, if I've gotten time to sharpen it or it comes sharp enough to use! Once a knife touches meat/vegetables/wood, flippers aren't usually interested because the ridiculous (IMO) inflated value of a NIB knife. So I focus on the used knives around here. As a personal aside, I would love a "Used Knives" category in the exchange, but that would just be ripe to opening a lot of other sub forums, so I'm okay looking for used within the existing threads, the forums work well as it is. I tell perspective trades that I don't place high values on new condition- that I look more knife vs knife as long as condition is comparable and well maintained, as it'll be sharpened and put in use soon enough. It's lost me some trades, but that's okay with me, I've not worried about it, just wasn't meant to be. I have gotten new knives I wanted at more than original value because it was a rarer model I wanted, but I don't feel prices were inflated that artificially due to flipping, just fair value for a Grail. Had they been $30 more I would have walked away with no regrets. The only knives I "must have" are the ones that were stolen from me two years before my birthday. When I see them again at a gun show/Kijiji/whatever I will own them again. But that is the specific knives, not just any version of that model.
One of my biggest pet peeves is when an ad says- this is the sharpest knife I own, it cuts like a laser, absolutely unused..... How can you know it cuts like a laser if it's never cut anything. Either it's speculation or it was actually used, this is a logical fallacy in my mind so such sales threads are not people I choose to deal with. Plus I don't care if your Spyderco Endura is NIB, it's still not worth more than in a store- your NIB knife isn't more desirable to me because of use status if there are a couple million of them in stores. It's NIB, only stropped.... Same ideas.
Being Canadian, I have to communicate with individuals I want to deal with before conducting business, to make sure shipping and other concerns are worked out to every bodies satisfaction. Before I do this I look at the persons posting history. If a sellers posts are only in the exchange, then it's more business and I treat it accordingly. If they contribute to the forum, are active members in various areas or one specific area, them I'm more likely to enjoy dealing with them, and I hope that they feel the same way about me in the end.
I try to do my part and inform the mods if I think somebody is approaching flipper/dealer status, especially when their post history isn't outside of the exchange. I do like it when people keep up their asking price after a sale, as it's easier to see flipping when the new owner lists it on their own. I feel that removing prices contributes to the negative atmosphere being discussed here (negative IMO that is). Nobody I've reported has had their status changed, so I guess the mods feel that I was wrong, so be it. I see people whose attitude I don't care for, or terms I don't care for (PayPal plus x% makes me walk away right away, but so do lack of pictures/having to research the knife myself "the stats are online, so are pics, you can find them if you want". I didn't like Liu Kangs posts when he first came to the forum, so I ignored him until things got stupid and he garnered all sorts of attention. If somebody isn't along your moral lines on the forum then remember the name/put on ignore and go on with your day!
I would suggest looking at a policy whereby if you are listing x number of threads of previously unlisted knives within a certain time frame you are considered a seller and have membership restrictions put up. This would not affect people selling knives to pay for unexpected life happenstances, as those cases are usually one off big sales, because of emergencies/life happens. I may be there some day, even though I'm not a seller. If you are constantly using your knives to pay bills, then you are using them as assets and basically a business plan so I feel should be membership appropriate as you are using BF to generate income regularly. But some non-dealers always have different knives up on the exchange, to me that's still dealing, even if you don't keep a stock of knives as a dealer might. So maybe not a dealer membership, but an advanced sales membership between gold/platinum and Dealer/knife maker.
I do appreciate these threads whereby everybody can give their opinion and see where different points of view come from. I recently read a sales thread where a member called himself out on his policies, as he was told that he was being discussed as a poor representative of a seller. He gave his reasoning, and we can move on as we see fit. We are open to buy or not buy as we see fit, just as we can laugh when the overinflated price bubble breaks and people are left with very devalued knives. Which is another reason I like used knives- the quality and manufacture of the knife are usually reflected in price more so than name and demand.
This is just how I see things, and suggestions for what I would like to see happen, but it's just my opinion, if things change then that's the way it is, if not then okay too. Many many people will disagree with me in life. It's an international world and that means there are a couple of different life experiences making up who we are. It's a great forum
I like a lot of their lower demand popular knives like the 92 Eureka, 63 Mako, 57 Wrangler, 76 Outlaw, and my personal favourite the very underrated Executive Whittler. (I hate number designations so had to look at the knives in question to get them). To me they are solid, attractive hardworking knifes for the tasks I need them to fill.
I dislike the flipper attitude as well, it's contrary to what I feel a forum like this should be. It's the community over the business to me, and that's what makes this place great. I don't demand anybody conform to my thought process, so I do what I can to mitigate it within my purchasing experience. I have a set of conditions that allow me to exclude sellers based on how I perceive them.
The easiest way to avoid flippers in my experience is to actually USE KNIVES TO CUT STUFF!!! I cut with basically every knife I own, if I've gotten time to sharpen it or it comes sharp enough to use! Once a knife touches meat/vegetables/wood, flippers aren't usually interested because the ridiculous (IMO) inflated value of a NIB knife. So I focus on the used knives around here. As a personal aside, I would love a "Used Knives" category in the exchange, but that would just be ripe to opening a lot of other sub forums, so I'm okay looking for used within the existing threads, the forums work well as it is. I tell perspective trades that I don't place high values on new condition- that I look more knife vs knife as long as condition is comparable and well maintained, as it'll be sharpened and put in use soon enough. It's lost me some trades, but that's okay with me, I've not worried about it, just wasn't meant to be. I have gotten new knives I wanted at more than original value because it was a rarer model I wanted, but I don't feel prices were inflated that artificially due to flipping, just fair value for a Grail. Had they been $30 more I would have walked away with no regrets. The only knives I "must have" are the ones that were stolen from me two years before my birthday. When I see them again at a gun show/Kijiji/whatever I will own them again. But that is the specific knives, not just any version of that model.
One of my biggest pet peeves is when an ad says- this is the sharpest knife I own, it cuts like a laser, absolutely unused..... How can you know it cuts like a laser if it's never cut anything. Either it's speculation or it was actually used, this is a logical fallacy in my mind so such sales threads are not people I choose to deal with. Plus I don't care if your Spyderco Endura is NIB, it's still not worth more than in a store- your NIB knife isn't more desirable to me because of use status if there are a couple million of them in stores. It's NIB, only stropped.... Same ideas.
Being Canadian, I have to communicate with individuals I want to deal with before conducting business, to make sure shipping and other concerns are worked out to every bodies satisfaction. Before I do this I look at the persons posting history. If a sellers posts are only in the exchange, then it's more business and I treat it accordingly. If they contribute to the forum, are active members in various areas or one specific area, them I'm more likely to enjoy dealing with them, and I hope that they feel the same way about me in the end.
I try to do my part and inform the mods if I think somebody is approaching flipper/dealer status, especially when their post history isn't outside of the exchange. I do like it when people keep up their asking price after a sale, as it's easier to see flipping when the new owner lists it on their own. I feel that removing prices contributes to the negative atmosphere being discussed here (negative IMO that is). Nobody I've reported has had their status changed, so I guess the mods feel that I was wrong, so be it. I see people whose attitude I don't care for, or terms I don't care for (PayPal plus x% makes me walk away right away, but so do lack of pictures/having to research the knife myself "the stats are online, so are pics, you can find them if you want". I didn't like Liu Kangs posts when he first came to the forum, so I ignored him until things got stupid and he garnered all sorts of attention. If somebody isn't along your moral lines on the forum then remember the name/put on ignore and go on with your day!
I would suggest looking at a policy whereby if you are listing x number of threads of previously unlisted knives within a certain time frame you are considered a seller and have membership restrictions put up. This would not affect people selling knives to pay for unexpected life happenstances, as those cases are usually one off big sales, because of emergencies/life happens. I may be there some day, even though I'm not a seller. If you are constantly using your knives to pay bills, then you are using them as assets and basically a business plan so I feel should be membership appropriate as you are using BF to generate income regularly. But some non-dealers always have different knives up on the exchange, to me that's still dealing, even if you don't keep a stock of knives as a dealer might. So maybe not a dealer membership, but an advanced sales membership between gold/platinum and Dealer/knife maker.
I do appreciate these threads whereby everybody can give their opinion and see where different points of view come from. I recently read a sales thread where a member called himself out on his policies, as he was told that he was being discussed as a poor representative of a seller. He gave his reasoning, and we can move on as we see fit. We are open to buy or not buy as we see fit, just as we can laugh when the overinflated price bubble breaks and people are left with very devalued knives. Which is another reason I like used knives- the quality and manufacture of the knife are usually reflected in price more so than name and demand.
This is just how I see things, and suggestions for what I would like to see happen, but it's just my opinion, if things change then that's the way it is, if not then okay too. Many many people will disagree with me in life. It's an international world and that means there are a couple of different life experiences making up who we are. It's a great forum
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2013
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- 233
Lol, some people have some wild imaginations that are so grand that it's better then any Halloween story. The mythical flipper who buys knives for pennys (spelling?) and resells for millions MWHAHAHA.
Have I paid more for knives, yup!, but not to the extreme that have been discussed here. Maybe 35 to 40 dollars is the most I've went. But it was a limited run of knives that you can't get anymore. I just find it hard to believe that someone can flip knives to make some huge profit, unless it's a custom. But even then I would simply not buy it.
I hope that came out clear haha
Have I paid more for knives, yup!, but not to the extreme that have been discussed here. Maybe 35 to 40 dollars is the most I've went. But it was a limited run of knives that you can't get anymore. I just find it hard to believe that someone can flip knives to make some huge profit, unless it's a custom. But even then I would simply not buy it.
I hope that came out clear haha
This is a common occurrence in every hobby. People learn how to be at the right place at the right time.
If you don't like it and are morally opposed to that behavior then don't pay inflated prices. That is the only way to xombat that behavior. People will be much less likely to buy an entire run in every handle material if they will take a 20% loss on every one they sell.
There are plenty of knives I have not been able to get...I am still looking for a 2011 forum knife almost 4 years after they were made.
The hunt (at a decent price) is half the fun.
If you don't like it and are morally opposed to that behavior then don't pay inflated prices. That is the only way to xombat that behavior. People will be much less likely to buy an entire run in every handle material if they will take a 20% loss on every one they sell.
There are plenty of knives I have not been able to get...I am still looking for a 2011 forum knife almost 4 years after they were made.
The hunt (at a decent price) is half the fun.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2013
- Messages
- 233
I don't think I remember saying anything about buying rare knives at cost. Now I did say that this idea of a "flipper" making so much profit from flipping knives is ridiculous, UNLESS we are talking about custom knives because the profit margin on non-custom knives is negligible at best.
Even this idea that it's the same people that are buying (in your cause TC barlows) all of these knives over and over, or that they are some out of shaped, pimple faced, no job having guy who lives at home with his mother, that's taking knives from hard working people. What's more likely is that it's just another person working hard just like you trying to get by in life who finally caught a break and got one.
And even if it was true (flippers that is), I would simply not buy the knife.
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Exactly. With Christmas coming up, watch the Bay to see how the newest toy or xbox games are selling 10x over retail price, because they sold out on Black Friday.
I can not like the practice of flipping, because it inconveniences me in getting what I want at a price I want to pay. But at the same time, I respect that those flippers are not doing anything illegal, and are simply willing to put in more time and money than I am to turn a profit.
Some people make their living buying low /selling high, in order to pay their bills. I make mine sitting behind a desk for 40 hours a week. To each his own.
- Joined
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- 47
As irritating as flipper/dealer mass purchases can be, there's nothing inherently wrong with it. As others have said, that's just a standard part of capitalism.
You see this sort of thing in all areas of retail. For example, at a Goodwill store near me some "antique mall" people follow the employees around and grab every single thing they put on the shelves. Then they retreat to a corner and go through their baskets, eventually putting back 90% of the stuff (often in the wrong places). It's very irritating and rude, but not illegal, and the Goodwill employees don't want to alienate them (since they buy so much there).
You see this sort of thing in all areas of retail. For example, at a Goodwill store near me some "antique mall" people follow the employees around and grab every single thing they put on the shelves. Then they retreat to a corner and go through their baskets, eventually putting back 90% of the stuff (often in the wrong places). It's very irritating and rude, but not illegal, and the Goodwill employees don't want to alienate them (since they buy so much there).
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just sharing my opinion of your hyperbole...
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nope. I'm mad? You're the angry one blowing things out of proportion. Calm down it's just a knife.
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