Call for Charpy toughness samples

Consider it done.

Maybe I’ll try a dry ice/acetone sample too, to compare with cryo.

Warren

If it's not too much to ask, I'd be interested to see the difference in 20CV after cryo vs acetone/dry ice. I've been told that cryo doesn't improve upon a dry ice subzero, and the data sheets for M390, CTS 204P, and CPM 20CV all call for around -100°F. I wonder if cryo would make a measurable difference.

Thanks!
 
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Z-FiNiT in the oven. I’m doing two conditions, 1805fx40min, manufacturers recommendation, and 1905x20 min.

1805 is tempered at 480f, and 1905 is tempered at 895f.
 
If it's not too much to ask, I'd be interested to see the difference in 20CV after cryo vs acetone/dry ice. I've been told that cryo doesn't improve upon a dry ice subzero, and the data sheets for M390, CTS 204P, and CPM 20CV all call for around -100°F. I wonder if cryo would make measurable a difference.

Thanks!


Can do. I’ll do a sample of a few steels with sub-zero. My testing with z-wear shows a 1-2point difference in final Rc hardness between sub zero and full cryo. My guess is that not all steels require full cryo. This testing should show us some difference, if there is one.
 
20CV and M390 are done.

I used the same heat treat for all three. (I have x and y axis m390 samples.)

1550f for 10min, ramp at full speed to 2140f, hold for 10 min, plate quench, cryo overnight, temper 2h x 2 at 365f. Rc62. (Thanks to Darrin Sanders for his recommended heat treat.)

Warren
 
A comparison between m390 and 20cv will definitely be interesting
 
A comparison between m390 and 20cv will definitely be interesting

The 20CV came out at Rc62, and the M390 came out at Rc60.5. The M390 still has the skin on it from the mill. When I did a few knives last month, the hardness went up to Rc62.5 once ground to fresh steel.

If I could get my hands on some V4E, it would be interesting to compare to 4V as well.
 
The 20CV came out at Rc62, and the M390 came out at Rc60.5. The M390 still has the skin on it from the mill. When I did a few knives last month, the hardness went up to Rc62.5 once ground to fresh steel.

If I could get my hands on some V4E, it would be interesting to compare to 4V as well.

You mean, a piece of Vanadis 4 extra, just big enough to make test specimens?
 
You mean, a piece of Vanadis 4 extra, just big enough to make test specimens?

Yes. I would love to get some for knives too, but seeing the difference between 1st generation PM and the newest generation processes is an interesting question. Just like the 1st generation 20cv and the third generation M390.
 
Some interesting results from yesterday. The no cryo/low temper z-wear came out at Rc55. I used a lower austenitizing temp, of 1925 to try to minimize or at least lessen the retained austenitite. Tempering was at 400f x 4. According to the data sheet, it should have been Rc58/59 with high temper. I’ve done a few knives for harder use at 1935f, with cryo plus low temper, and they come out at Rc62/63. I had another maker use his tester, and he got an average of Rc62.5 on the blade I sent him. It appears no cryo with low temper isn’t a viable heat treat. The sample can go to be tested anyway.

The cryo (1h, as the eta carbides get erased when using high tempers anyway) plus high temper came out at Rc62, but I didn’t grind the small amount of decarb off. I used 1925f as an educated guess as earlier testing using 1975 resulted in a Rc65 blade after tempering. This one (1925f) should be about Rc63 on fresh steel. 1935 would probably give me Rc63/64. I’m probably 1/2 Rc point off of the desired Rc63/64 to match my previous samples. I typically see one additional Rcpoint when I grind the surfaces clean, but in one case I saw an increase of two Rc points, but I think I had foil that wasn’t fully sealed on that one. Larrin, am I correct to assume the cryo converted enough of the retained austenitite that the high temper didn’t bump the hardness as much as it would have with no cryo?

The no cryo, high temper condition came out at Rc61.5, so probably Rc62.5 when clean. I used 1990f. I probably should have used 2000f, or even 2025f. I used four tempers at 1000f.

Z-FiNiT is tempering now. I left the samples in cryo for 48h. Chuck at AKS told me this steel serms to prefer long cryo soaks, and I didn’t pay enough attention to my equipment needs, as I was tempering the no cryo z-wear samples yesterday for 8h.
 
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It sounds like the austenitizing temperature would have to be even lower to heat treat without cryo.
 
It is weird that the cru-wear datasheet says that you should get high as-quenched hardness. You should go down to 1850F just to make sure.
 
I just finished tempering z-FiNiT.

The 1905 cryo high temper (895f) sample tested at Rc58/59. The data sheet predicts Rc61.

The 1805f cryo 480f temper tested at Rc56/57. The data sheet predicts Rc58.

There might be a one point Rc gain when ground to clean steel. This is a guess. My first try at hardening a nitrogen steel. My curiosity is quite piqued.

It seems hobbyist equipment might not be adequate to get the full hardness from this steel. The lower harness sample is closer. I’ll try different tempering temps on the higher austenitizing temp in future to see if we get better hardness, then we’ll have to see if we give up a lot in terms of toughness.
 
I don’t have any thick enough. I can add it to my list with 3V for my next order.

S35VN at Rc60, and Rc63. Maybe cryo vs. Dry ice too.

Warren

Don't order any S35VN, I have plenty already on hand. I'll get to them when I can. If you wanna do them before I can get to them just let me know and I'll send you what you need.
 
I just ordered an new T/C. I may try to get the S35VN coupons ready while I'm waiting on it to get here. We'll see.
 
Don't order any S35VN, I have plenty already on hand. I'll get to them when I can. If you wanna do them before I can get to them just let me know and I'll send you what you need.


No rush. If you are busy, I can do them. If you have time, you can do them.
 
It is weird that the cru-wear datasheet says that you should get high as-quenched hardness. You should go down to 1850F just to make sure.

As quenched with cryo is Rc66/67. I got a few Rc68 readings, but that may have been tester error.

I’ll throw in a coupon next time I heat treat this steel, and test it without tempering.

Zapp z-wear datasheet doesn’t give an as quenched hardness.
 
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66-67 Rc would point to pretty high carbon in solution meaning the Ms temperature may be quite low.

As for Z-Finit, “hobbyist” equipment can often be better for obtaining high hardness. Those big vacuum furnaces can’t quench as fast as you can.
 
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66-67 Rc would point to pretty high carbon in solution meaning the and temperature may be quite low.

As for Z-Finit, “hobbyist” equipment can often be better for obtaining high hardness. Those big vacuum furnaces can’t quench as fast as you can.


Not sure if there’s a typo in the first sentence. “And temperature” not sure what that means.

I find a big difference in plate quenching vs. Air cooling. One to two Rc points.

I’ll be playing with z-FiNiT and see if I can get to Rc60/61. I’m thinking of the higher austenitizing temp, and tempering around 480, like the lower temp sample.
 
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