camillus bankrupt?

Well,
I bought a Camillus today from a online store, which also has a brick and mortar store. I think they are a primary source.

What a great reason (excuse) to buy a knife! :D :D

Why don't you all join me? :thumbup:

Dale
 
rosconey said:
40% pay cut-

sounds like bankruptcy is close-

cant see people getting that raw a deal and going back to work building a quality product-
Click to expand...

The information is wrong. Camillus knows that they will lose good workers if they don't pay them well. The union is afraid to lose the membership because they have done nothing to earn their dues, so they invented this strife and strike to get the employees behind them again. They did not disclose the true terms of the contract. The 40% cut, the idea that the new health care program will cost more, and other issues alledgedly in the company proposal are untrue.

This is a clear case of union irresponsibility, killing another company because of their ineptitude and throwback mentality. How a union is allowed to lie to their own members and get away with it is beyond me. The employees, who have struggled to keep the company going through several management mistakes are now being duped into playing the union vs. management game, rather than working together to keep quality products going.
 
nydiver said:
Uh, I don't think a 30+ year machine mechanic making 11/hr is over paid. mis-Management is the place to start. There are people salivating over this to get the camillus name, not to get a 50 year old inefficient knife works that works at less than 70% due to irrepairable machinery. Who ever buys the place other than the employees is sure to close the plant and just finish the job the current management started, to import all the knives.

Spyderco, Kershaw, Cold Steel, Colt, Buck, Gerber, the list goes on an on of companies that Camillus did work for, Where the hell are they now that the little guy is going down? Well they want management out of the pic too after most of them getting a screw job from the Camillus management team. Things are bad enough that Camillus was down to COD on steel.
Click to expand...

The 30 year+ machine repairman makes more than $11/hr. true, there was a lot of mismanagement, and still is. But the union should have demands to make the company more secure rather than ask for wage increases. They don't seem to care that the only reasonable option is for someone to buy the name to put it on imports and shut the place down. This strike is irresponsible.
 
Jeff Clark said:
What surprised me was that they were operating a knife company using United Steelworkers Union members. I bet that is expensive. Here's an article from today's paper with some info:
http://www.syracuse.com/business/po...ness-2/1147943015320450.xml&coll=1&thispage=1
Click to expand...

What is the truth? The article mentioned above in the Post Standard refers to the management offer:
" The company's statement said the health plan it proposed would cost workers less than the current plan."

Yet, the workers were told that the plan would cost more. The workers deserve better than that. Were they shown the numbers by the union, by management?
 
knifeintheheart said:
The information is wrong. Camillus knows that they will lose good workers if they don't pay them well. The union is afraid to lose the membership because they have done nothing to earn their dues, so they invented this strife and strike to get the employees behind them again. They did not disclose the true terms of the contract. The 40% cut, the idea that the new health care program will cost more, and other issues alledgedly in the company proposal are untrue.

This is a clear case of union irresponsibility, killing another company because of their ineptitude and throwback mentality. How a union is allowed to lie to their own members and get away with it is beyond me. The employees, who have struggled to keep the company going through several management mistakes are now being duped into playing the union vs. management game, rather than working together to keep quality products going.
Click to expand...

I'd be surprised if Management did not inform the bargaining unit employees of the details of their offer,when they realized the strike was imminent. Especially if there was any question of misrepresentation by the union negotiators.
From all that I've been able to find out,it was just a matter of time before they had to declare bankruptcy or their creditors forced them into it.
It would be interesting to know what the executive's "Golden Parachute" packages are and how they are worded. Most do not go into effect if the company goes into bankruptcy.
Unions cause a lot of their own problems but most are smart enough to realize that,shutting down a plant with 200 dues-paying members,costs the union $$$$.
Federal law requires that strike votes will be by secret ballot,also,and only the bargaining unit members vote.
We read about the $11/hour machine operators,but what were the top hourly pay rates for the skilled positions? Ron
 
Hi all! I don't have time right now to answer everything but I can answer about the top skilled workers.
Electrician - $16.00 (actually the only classification getting a raise)
Tool & Die Maker - $13.50
Millwright - $13.00
All Set- up Persons - $11.50

That'll give you an idea , anyways. When I have time, I'll answer some other questions. Happy Memorial Day!
 
in china-
electrician-16 cents a hour or death
tool&die maker-13 cents a hour or death
millwright-13 cents a hour or death
same for all the rest-

if they started a union the govt would be doing alot of jimmy hofa imatations a lot of them-


washington wont figure it out till they raise the chinese flag over the white house(no not wallmarts,been there done that already)
 
Any health insurance plan that costs LESS these days is going to be a very poor plan.

Or.....it must be accompanied by a huge pay cut to cover the quickly increasing costs of medical care.

With the hourly rates being discussed here, such cuts would put skilled workers only slightly above the people that flip burgers at MacDonald's.

No wonder they're going on strike.

If a company screws its long-time and loyal skilled workers.....then to hell with that company, because it does not deserve to survive.

I think the company probably knows that economic realities will force them to manufacture in China......thus the company is provoking a strike so they can shut down and blame the workers.

Bullshit way of treating good workers.
 
This is a few days old, but I just found it. Any word from the workers or company on the results?

http://news10now.com/content/all_news/central_new_york/?SecID=86&ArID=67147

Workers and company officials resume talks
Updated: 5/22/2006 11:28 AM
By: News 10 Now Staff

Union workers at Camillus Cutlery and company officials return to the negotiating table today. Nearly 80 workers remain on the picket line.

Union members voted down the new contract offered by the company last Tuesday. Employees say the new proposal asked for a 40 percent pay cut, an increase in health care payments and the elimination of severance pay. The company says that's not true and that they've presented the union with its last best offer.

Camillus Cutlery released a statement saying the company is facing a severe financial crisis and asked the union for certain cost reductions.
 
Rocinante said:
thus the company is provoking a strike so they can shut down and blame the workers.

Bullshit way of treating good workers.
Click to expand...

Provoking? Are you kidding, do you really think they are financially healthy? I'm not saying they are or have been managed well, but at this point I'm pretty sure having lived through it at Schrade, that camillus is running out of money. They need new financing, having workers on strike is not a good way to get that new financing. I doubt they provoked it.
 
They need new financing? And what fool would give them money?

Face it.....big investors are not fools, and China looms as the ultimate competitor.

If anything, big investors are putting their money into China. Camillus knows that.....and probably has a deal in the works to sell made-in-China Camillus knives already.

Knowing this, and wanting to minimize the negative fallout from dumping their American workers......they are employing the usual politically correct tactic of provoking a strike and then pretending the workers are destroying the company with their greed.

A pack of lies, but effective propaganda.

It makes the company look like the victim and gets the ignorant public on management's side.

Now I, of course, do not know for sure that this is the case with Camillus.......but things sure seem headed down that road based on the accounts so far and past experience in similar situations.

I sincerely hope that the workers keep their jobs and go back to making good knives.....but it will take a change of tactics and a great effort and some great creative thinking to make it happen.
 
I think you and others are making a lot of assumptions based on poor information. I understand that this is partly because Camillus, like Imperial Schrade, is a privately held company, and they like to conduct their business quietly. Way back when Schrade was having financial troubles, an outside consultant was hired and made CEO. The guy (Mr. "B", as he has been refered to) also took on the helm of Camillus at approximately the same time. His assigned mission was to take the two companies into profitability, or failing that, find buyers. To say that he did not accomplish the owner's commision is putting it mildly. He is no longer involved with Camillus.

Now Schrade, as compared to Camillus, was a giant. Camillus is much smaller ( if my information is correct), and has concentrated on producing knives for other companies under their own stamps, and remaining mute as to their origins.

As Camillus employees (and relatives of employees) have told us, Camillus already has been forced to source parts from the Pacific Rim. And to outsource a lot of assembly (subcontract) here in the U.S. Rare is the U.S. cutlery that does not. Survival demands that knife producers meet as many price points in the market, and style diversity, as is possible. It is just a fact in manufacturing consumer goods in today's environment. Consumers have the choice of buying the higher priced ( and better made, IMHO) U.S. produced knives, or buying the cheapest "knife-like-object" they can find.

The sad fact is that a substantial portion of today's younger buyers are not only unversed in what makes a quality tool different, they could care less since "instant gratification" leads them to buy a $20 knife today, rather than wait a month, save their sodie-pop money, and buy a quality knife for $40 - $100. Neither do they have historical perspective on how buying the cheaper imported goods impacts jobs here that they and their children will some day depend on.

I guess I've ranted enough, but I must say again, what is going on at Camillus has not occured in a vacuume, and to assign blame solely to the workers, or solely to the management or owners is just plain wrong! We, the knife buying public are as much to blame as anyone, because we, even if we ourselves have loyally bought American cutlery, have failed to pass the reasons on to generation X and now generation Y, as the GI Joe and Baby Boomers are on the decline as driving forces in the marketplace.

Whew! Wordey 'ol codger, aint I?:o

Codger
 
washington is to blame-they gave massive tax cuts to companies to move to china and opened a unfairplaying field for everyone who mfgs in this country-

cant compete with labor cost,health insurance,and utilities-
not to mention the flooding of poor quality goods in order to consume the competition-

the chinese want our money to help build there war chest-so they can take over the far east some day-

whats going to happen when we go to war and cant fight because all our good are made by the enemy-and dont think for one minute they arent just that -OUR ENEMY-
 
Ros...no doubt the chi.-coms. are the enemy. as our manufactures help them to up their quality, we are just screwing the future. $0.02

how about a weigh-in from some camillus insiders? what's the latest from
thurs. & fri.? are they gonna lock all the doors? what's the scoop?
 
I think they need to give their employees a fair settlement and rename and reinvent the company to produce only premium-quality hand-crafted knives in the $100 to $500 range.

And, of course, import the standard working-class knives from China.

That would give them 20 years or so (until China has the reputation and respect to be able to dominate even THAT market).
 
I'd say the die is already cast!
Many people,especially below the Mason-Dixon line where unionized manufacturing plants are rare,aren't familiar with normal provisions that are are found in union contracts.
There can be significant financial advantages for the top management and the owners in going bankrupt because of a strike versus going bankrupt while still operating.
If the top hourly rates were $16,as someone reported,a worker making that with a wife and a couple kids could qualify for some goverment-assistance programs. I don't think high-labor costs are the big factor in Camillus's problems
Did the last contract include severance pay,in case of layoff or shutdown?
If they had a lot of high-seniority workers,that would amount to a lot of money,but if a closedown occurs because of a work-stoppage,no bargaining unit member gets a dime. But the top executives usually have "golden parachute" clauses written into their contracts.
If they have a pension plan,I'll bet it's way underfunded also.
Does anybody know who the owners are? Are the Bauer heirs still involved?Wasn't Camillus ownership involved with SMKW,or another Tennessee outfit,awhile back?
Ron
 
Just from memory it was approximately December 2003 that smokey mountain was sold by Camillus. They also had a major layoff about that time. The cash from this sale is what supposedly kept Camillus going at that time. At least that was the word at Schrade from the famous Mr. B
 
Why continue to gripe about the chinese made garbage rather than try and get the word out for people not to buy this crap? You are all blaming the wrong people! The every day american joe is the uninformed buyer of this junk! So blame him and try to persuade him not to buy this garbage anymore! If we dont buy it then there is no market for it and therefore any investment in it is lost profit!!! WAKE UP!!! lay the blame where the blame is DUE! Dont give your money to taylor cutlery or united chink brands or any of the other sell outs lining their pockets and taking out of yours!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top