camillus bankrupt?

Tell people not to buy "this crap?"

That's like telling people not to buy at WalMart because WalMart destroys small business and takes jobs and health insurance from Americans by dealing enormous amounts of Chinese products at bargain prices while cheating their own workers on health insurance and pay.

Nothing can stop them......people flock there because they're too stupid to see the big picture and they care only about getting a bargain for themselves.

And in case you haven't noticed.....what you call "crap" is improving every day and what you call good is going DOWN in quality.
 
The fit and finish and attention to detail is improving as far as appearance but the materials are still crap! Maybe if we bought our buddies that buy china stuff a real knife they would see the difference in a good knife and one that looks like a knife. (as codger says a knife like object) I have given several knives to my buddies and after having something that would actually cut cleanly rather than rip and then could be resharpened, they have converted to knife users rather than waste their two dollars on junk they now save their money for the real thing. As far as health care goes This is a free country! Get your own or do without it! The government nor your employer should be responsible for your well being in a free country that should be left up to the free citizen and as far as pay is concerned well once more it's a free country so work somewhere else! when these people dont have employees they'll pay more wages to get them! And you can say that jobs are hard to come by if you want, but then i would tell you to tell that to millions of illegals working here everyday! Crap jobs? @ $100+ tax free dollars a day I dont think so.
 
Don't blame Wal-Mart, blame people. If there was not a demand then Wal-Mart would not be buying it. Until the American people get serious and refuse to buy imported goods, it will not change and probably worsen. If people refused to buy what Wal-Mart offered, then they would be forced to buy different goods or lose sales. BTW, it's not just a Wal-Mart thing, take a look around, Target, Kmart, Sears, and so on are no different. It's the American people that need to smarten up and buy American. If we refused to buy imported goods, then maybe American factories would keep their production here. What we need are higher tariffs on imports that make it economically and financially unsound to sell imported goods.

Dan

Rocinante said:
Tell people not to buy "this crap?"

That's like telling people not to buy at WalMart because WalMart destroys small business and takes jobs and health insurance from Americans by dealing enormous amounts of Chinese products at bargain prices while cheating their own workers on health insurance and pay.

Nothing can stop them......people flock there because they're too stupid to see the big picture and they care only about getting a bargain for themselves.

And in case you haven't noticed.....what you call "crap" is improving every day and what you call good is going DOWN in quality.
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Actually.....WalMart sets the standard for exploiting employees--so others have to cut wages and benefits to compete with WalMart.

Ask any of the thousands of grocery store workers who have been cut or laid off when WalMart came into their area.....just for one example.

WalMart destroys lives in many ways.......and most people are ignorant enough to keep on feeding the monster--just to save a few pennies.

That's the ugly side of America--stupidity, selfishness and greed.
 
My wife & I, after doing some research on Walmart, rarely shop there any more. I buy American made dog food there & some American made paper products. That is about the extent of our Walmart buying.

Dale
 
OK! First, thanks for showing interest in the workers and company at Camillus. Its good to know that people care whether or not Camillus stays open.

Here's some more facts:

1. Yes. The new proposed health plan will cost the union workers less each paycheck. However, everything else goes up. Office visits, prescriptions, major medical (have to pay first $3000). So theres a give and take.

2. Yes. The Union Reps presented the contract honestly but due to the close to 50 concessions the company wants the committee recommened voting it down. The committee had the option of not even bringing it back to us for a vote if they thought it was not a good contract. They decided to let us decide.

3. When SMKW was sold, the only money that was "reinvested" was the money it took to bring the then current pension up to the proper funding level. The rest went to the owners.

4. The same family owns both the now defunct Schrade and Camillus. Inhereted from people who knew how to manage a business.

5. The "Oh-So-Great" Mr. B, thanks to managing the Schrade business and the follow-up auction sale, now makes his home in his 2.5 million dollar house on Skaneateles Lake. One further note on Mr. B - he ended up at a local candle factory here in Syracuse and managed to cut workers and reduce working hours down to a three day work week before he was booted from that job also. Oh yeah, allegedly.

6. The last negotiations talks were talks called by the federal mediators which resulted in no changes.

The bottom line for us remains the same. We want a fair contract. One that we can live with and by. We realize that we will have to make concessions and have agreed to many but not what the company is asking. Time will tell.
 
People aren't 'stupid' because they buy at Wally World - Many only have so many dollars and must shop smart! Is that stupid? NO. Spending more of your money for a product 'just' because it's made in America - now that's STUPID. I should pay more to keep you employed - sorry, I'm am AF Master Sergeant (retired) and I, like many, have to think SMART when I spend my limited dollars.
 
Well, Happy Memorial Day......I'm a retired AF MSgt, too. Four years in the Navy and 18 years in the ANG. Start drawing a retirement check and health insurance this fall, as a matter of fact.

When you consider the damage they do to communities, WalMart prices are no bargain. In fact, when you compare prices carefully.....they are higher, even initially, than the competition on some items.

And.....when you consider that after they destroy all the competition they can charge whatever they please--yeah, it might just be less than smart to play that game.

The working poor (WalMart slaves) with no health insurance end up in emergency rooms instead of getting ongoing preventative care--and that consequences out in higher health care costs for all of us because the hospitals pass their losses along to us.

Buying American has hidden benefits. Of course, we all buy foreign products, but we can minimize and we can boycott corrupt corporations like WalMart.

You gotta look at the big picture, not just today's price tag.

When we finally see that, we can do a lot of good for our community and our country.
 
Rocinate - I appreciate what you say, but to reiterate - I, and many in this country (I believe a large majority) have to watch where we spend our money. It's nice to be ideological (sp?) but in the end, one with a limited income have to be careful how/where we spend those monies; and that includes our knife purchases. Just fact. p.s. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO YOUR COUNTRY
 
As a point of interest, turn over your keyboard right now and read the country of origin label, then post it here. Mine is a emachines and says.....made in china.
 
1998 IBM - made in Thailand.
The tower and monitor were US made,though.
:jerkit: It's funny that we got along okay with over 90% american-made products up until the late 60's when Japan started exporting a lot of cars to the US after we rebuilt their manufacturing base and they started "dumping" their vehicles here for less than it cost to build them.At the same time,they imposed very high tariffs on imports from other countries.
Heck,when I was a kid in the 40's and 50's,you couldn't find foreign products for sale. I don't remember prices for most goods being out of line with what people were earning. If I couldn't afford something I wanted,I waited until I saved enough to get.
Today's "ME" generation wants it now.
Lenin or Trotsky said "The capitalist will bid to sell the rope that is going to hang him" or something to that effect.
Ron
 
Yes, thanks to all the vets......us included.

And we all need to take a stand to buy our stuff as responsibly as possible.
 
I'm a Camillus cutlery employee of 29 years. I am resigning tomorrow. Spent enough years listening to the woes of the company while trying to do my best. We have lost a lot of talented hard working people. We wanted the company to survive. We absolutely did not ask for a pay raise of any kind!!! There were only 78 people that were in the union! From at one time 400!! The building is literally falling apart!!! Ancient machinery!!!! We were not miracle workers!!!! Ended up material handling, set-up, changing and dressing wheels, logging info into computer, all while trying to put out production. One less sharpener ( out of three ) to deal with the mess!!!!!
 
HunterH said:
I'm a Camillus cutlery employee of 29 years. I am resigning tomorrow. Spent enough years listening to the woes of the company while trying to do my best. We have lost a lot of talented hard working people. We wanted the company to survive. We absolutely did not ask for a pay raise of any kind!!! There were only 78 people that were in the union! From at one time 400!! The building is literally falling apart!!! Ancient machinery!!!! We were not miracle workers!!!! Ended up material handling, set-up, changing and dressing wheels, logging info into computer, all while trying to put out production. One less sharpener ( out of three ) to deal with the mess!!!!!
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Sad that it had to happen, Hunter. It is well known that the workers are the one holding the company up, as the building is falling down. I guess with you leaving, one more pillar crumbles to dust.
Good luck with your new endeavor, hopefully you will be happy in your new job.
 
HunterH,
Good luck to you in the future. The sad fact is that we all resigned our position on May 16th as the company has no intentions of negotiating a contract. Maybe "the powers that be" should look up the word negotiating and find out what it means as it seems they believe it means "here, take this and like it". Feel thankful for the other workers in this state as this is the last business that the family can drive into the ground. Mr. Baer has to be rolling over in his grave.
 
A few days ago I ordered a Camillus CGP7B. I got it yesterday. This is a sweet knife. It is a bit smaller than other folding hunters. It is 5" as opposed to the 5-1/4" size favored by some other makers. It came shaving sharp with a leather sheath. Both knife and sheath are proudly stamped "U.S.A." the fit and finish of the knife is very good. It locks up like a rock with no blade play. Nickel silver bolsters are polished to a mirror finish. A great knife made here in the U.S.A. I am very pleased. It remindes me of my first Camillus, a Marine Corps issued TL, the electrician knife issued to Marine Corp aviation mechanics. I carried that knife all through the Marine Corps, through my time in Vietnam and managed to hang on to it when I got medevaced home. I still have the knife and can still shave with it.

In spite of the varying opinions posited in this forum as regards the strike at Camillus, I think we all would like to see the strike settled, the workers fairly compensated for their labors, and Camillus as an American brand thrive.

Just my $.02
Dale
 
I just received a Becker Crewman. It has the worst fit and finish of any knife I've ever seen.

It makes the Ontario Spec Plus knives I've had look like customs.

I'm going to keep it because I like the size and I'm going to beat the crap out of it anyway. Hopefully the performance won't be an issue.

I bought two to BK 7's at the same time about 2 years ago and they were both nicely made.
 
MSgt:

I presume you are a knife knut, since you are here. And I presume you have a $40 Camillus knife, or a $100 Spyderco, or a $150 Benchmade, or something along those lines. But I bet you don't get by on the $9.97 bubble-pack camping knife from teh Walmart rack. So it probably isn't just a case of spending the least money, but of choosing to spend the money where you want. If you have a computer, and a good knife, then you have already shown your willingness to spend more than is absolutely necessary, based on your perception of what you get for it. SOme of us perceive that a contribution to the American economy is also something that we get for our purchases, and we buy that whenever we can. The way I look at it, my kids' job opportunities are on the line.
 
Camillus don't bother to listen to their customers. A good example would be the Becker line. Many here on this forum have expressed the handle problem on becker knives, no improvements have been made. I'd rather take my business somewhere else like Busse Combat where they listen to the feedback and tweak their products to satisfy their customers.
 
greens said:
Camillus don't bother to listen to their customers. A good example would be the Becker line. Many here on this forum have expressed the handle problem on becker knives, no improvements have been made. I'd rather take my business somewhere else like Busse Combat where they listen to the feedback and tweak their products to satisfy their customers.
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I could be off base here, but I believe that the Becker knives are made to Ethan Becker's specifications under contract by Camillus so you can't really use that example to bitch about them. I, for one, absolutely love the Becker knife handles especially the micarta version, but I have bigger hands than most......

It is a sad thing to see the oldest US knifemaker go down in flames. I see it as an example of the "How can we make more money tomorrow and who gives a rat's ass about next year" theory of management. Tripping over dollars to save dimes, etc. When the philosophy should be "How can we position ourselves to maximize our profits over the long term even if we have to make a few sacrifices impacting the profit tomorrow?"

Just my two cents.
 
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