Can .45GAP replace .45ACP?

the .45 GAP should do anything a .45ACP will since its right around the same bullet weight/bullet design/bullet diameter and velocity.

when i first heard about the .45GAP it was gonna be offered in the same frame as the glock 17, that would be cool, the way it is now i'd as soon have a glock 21 myself,

as far as glock not offering any new models in .45GAP they already make the std, compact and sub compact other than a single stack or a target pistol thats about it for glock,

imho the .45GAP will never replace the .45ACP, the GAP has been around what, 2-3 yrs now, the .45ACP has been around for almost 100 yrs and will probably be around another 100 yrs or until we use ray guns or something.

not that the GAP is a bad round by any means, if they offered it in a 9MM size package (like a kahr P9 sized single stack .45GAP) i would buy one in a heartbeat, in a .45 size package, i'd as soon have a .45ACP, ammo is easier to come by, cheaper, just no real advantage to the GAP i can see.

i looked at a kahr P45 last week and its not but a bit bigger than the P9, but it is bigger, i dont know if it would be possible to get the GAP into a small pistol like the kahr P9 though, would be cool though.
 
Denver PD has a bunch on the street the they seem to be happy with them.
 
I haven't shot a .45GAP before, how does the recoil compare to a Glock 23 .40? My 23 felt kind of jumpy, I have shot .357 mag revolvers with less felt recoil.
 
<rant with a ;)>
As I see it, it is just a new salvo in the continuous assault on the apple pie and stars and stripes. First it was our cars, sector by sector (now Toyota is launching the final attack on TRUCKS with the new Tundra), in the meantime it was TVs, consumer electronics, steel, on the periphery there were Chinese cooking, Buddha, vegeterianism, and now Glock is striking into the heart, into the unassailable, the .45 ACP.

Okay, I admit, we helped with the cars, the TVs, and many other industries, but we did not suddenly change the .45 overnight, we didn't replace components with cheap parts to cut costs and inflate the end of the quarter (and long term be damned), we didn't finish it with lousy plastics that fell apart just from looking at it, we didn't change the laws of physics so that its ballistics suddenly went haywire. It is still a good ol' .45. This is one thing we did not screw up. Let's keep it that way. It could be the last piece of Americana left to our grandchildren.
</rant with a ;)>

Now where is my fiber & tofu cereal?
k030.gif

:D
 
with today's hollowpoint bullet designs, all service caliber handgun rounds suck equally. There is virtually no difference in stopping power between any 9mm, 40, or 45: they all punch little holes. That being said, the 45ACP will never go away as, like the 1911, it's proponents are driven more by nostalga than rational thought.

As for the 45GAP, i can have 8rds of it in a glock 19 size package, or i can have a glock 19 with 15 rounds of 9mm. Easy choice. Stopping someone with a handgun relies on the projectile destroying the CNS or impacting a vital structure causing enough blood loss to incapacitate. The solution is more holes.
 
To me it's clearly a nostalgia thing. Almost the same way that the 1911 is a nostalgia thing.

Are there more advanced cartridges than the .45ACP....yes. Are there much better designed pistols than the 1911....yes.
 
What gets me is the blind loyalty to the cartridge because of it's history. If you look at ANY ballistic test the +p 9mm meets or in most cases exceeds the .45ACP. Usually with twice the capacity.
 
You don't even need +P anymore. all the hollowpoints reliably expand at lower velocities. I go with the 147's in 9mm for the added penetration.
 
Matteo Escobar said:
What gets me is the blind loyalty to the cartridge because of it's history. If you look at ANY ballistic test the +p 9mm meets or in most cases exceeds the .45ACP. Usually with twice the capacity.
Click to expand...

i havent seen these tests. in the tests i have seen the 9mm, .40, and .45 perform similarly, ie penetration into balistic gel. none will penetrate body armor with any regularity.

i have also seen tests where the 9mm overpenetrates through media such as drywall, where the .45 and even a .223 wont. caveat being tests and statistics are sometimes adjusted to suit a predetermined outcome.

re: you belief that many pistols are of better design than the 1911, that is totally subjective.

in the end, what feels best, and what i have the most confidence in is what i will carry.
 
i believe shot placement and multiple wound channels will determine the outcome of most gunfights.
 
victory said:
with today's hollowpoint bullet designs, all service caliber handgun rounds suck equally. There is virtually no difference in stopping power between any 9mm, 40, or 45: they all punch little holes. That being said, the 45ACP will never go away as, like the 1911, it's proponents are driven more by nostalga than rational thought.

As for the 45GAP, i can have 8rds of it in a glock 19 size package, or i can have a glock 19 with 15 rounds of 9mm. Easy choice. Stopping someone with a handgun relies on the projectile destroying the CNS or impacting a vital structure causing enough blood loss to incapacitate. The solution is more holes.
Click to expand...

I sort of confused here, but can you clear up how you think hollow points make all bullets suck. What do you want to shoot FMJ bullets, do you think those would make bigger holes.
 
Horned Toad said:
I sort of confused here, but can you clear up how you think hollow points make all bullets suck. What do you want to shoot FMJ bullets, do you think those would make bigger holes.
Click to expand...

i think what he means is that all three common pistol calibers carried by law enforcement are equally bad, or equally good, depending on your point of view.

there is really very little distinction between the three most common calibers, at least balistically.

modern ammunition of all three tend to perform similarly.
 
correct, pistols poke little holes. Rifles tear shit up. All pistols suck equally well at killing people.

Hollowpoints level the playing feild even more.
 
victory said:
correct, pistols poke little holes. Rifles tear shit up. All pistols suck equally well at killing people.

Hollowpoints level the playing feild even more.
Click to expand...

Everyone here understands rifles are superior to handguns in the stopping department.

Ballistics, gel, penetration tests, blah, blah, blah............

None of that means squat.

The only thing that matters is how often the particular cartridge with a particular bullet puts down the bad guy/girl on the street in the quickest manner.

That is the only true test of any cartridge designed for self defense.

If all that stuff meant anything, and if all cartridges fired from a handgun were equally worthless then the GAP would be just as good as anything else.

For those of you looking at the numbers, when a 230 grain bullet with the same HP design is pushed at the same velocity it does not matter from whence it came. It will have the same performance and will give the same results.

If the GAP performs well on the streets it will be here for a long time to come.

The ACP will never go away since it is a proven performer in a proven package that exists in too great a number to be cast to the side.
 
Big and slow or fast and light? It doesn't really matter that much when you have good shot placement because both will work in normal situations.

When I carried a 10mm CCW, everyone said it was too much - too much recoil, too much penetration, too much power, etc. Thankfully, I never drew in anger so, that remains an unanswered question.

When I decided to down gun from my Glock 20 to the Sig 357 version, I heard the same comments again which I really did not understand because it is essentially a 357 Magnum revolver with an extra large cylinder (you think you have ammunition with a 7 shot wheel gun? :)).

These days, for pure defensive use, a lot of law enforcement agencies see the 40S&W as the best blend of both fast and light and slow and heavy. These days I tend favor something in the middle and at neither extreme.

The 45GAP? It is a perpetuation of an antique. I could hunt with 45/70's too but, WHY? Superior modern smokeless rounds exist and are widely distributed in the retail chain so they are easy to find. I'm not shooting suppressed (silencer) where staying subsonic is important so, I really think you need additional velocity to get the optimal blend of performance characteristics. Of course, with a heavy 45 caliber bullet you have to practice to deal with the increased recoil.
 
Having actually used both a .45 acp and a 9mm in life or death situations I have never viewed the .45 as an antique nor pathetic in performance. On the street I have been forced to fight with a .45 four times an a 9mm three times (that was what the people writing the paychecks said to use).The occassions are broken down to 3 times .45 1911, 1 time .45 Glock 30, all 3 9mm were P-35 Browning "High Power".
All occurances were within 16 feet, .45 ammo was twice Black Talon/ twice XTP. All 9mm was Golden Sabre. All hits were center mass with only 1 double tap in .45. All 9mm was double tap, center of mass. All .45 targets immediately stopped hostilities. One 9mm immediately stopped, 2 had to be further subdued.
Granted this is a small sampling but I would say the old warhorse .45 did it's job well and the 9mm did a fair job, but thats just my opinion. The .45 GAP should hold up its end ballistically. It just needs some street time.
Would I rather have a rifle? Damn straight, I think the handgun is a horrible fighting implement compared to almost any rifle. But, Its hard to find a holster for concealing an AR or an M1A.
Also in the equasion is the fact I have been carrying for 25 years nonstop, and I practice weekly with my carry weapon and carry ammo.
Or maybe its just a case of an "antique" carrying an antique. Bigk6 :rolleyes:
 
Terry Newton said:
Everyone here understands rifles are superior to handguns in the stopping department.

Ballistics, gel, penetration tests, blah, blah, blah............

None of that means squat.

The only thing that matters is how often the particular cartridge with a particular bullet puts down the bad guy/girl on the street in the quickest manner.

That is the only true test of any cartridge designed for self defense.

If all that stuff meant anything, and if all cartridges fired from a handgun were equally worthless then the GAP would be just as good as anything else.

For those of you looking at the numbers, when a 230 grain bullet with the same HP design is pushed at the same velocity it does not matter from whence it came. It will have the same performance and will give the same results.

If the GAP performs well on the streets it will be here for a long time to come.

The ACP will never go away since it is a proven performer in a proven package that exists in too great a number to be cast to the side.
Click to expand...


hollow points that expand in flesh expand in ballistics gel, hollow points which dont expand in flesh dont in gel either. if ya have 2-3 layers of denim gel replicates flesh as good as anything does, its what the FBI/DOD and lots of others use and is not a bad predictor of how bullets behave in real life.

its the only scientific repeatable way to test bullets right now anything else is simply opinions.

how bullets perform on the street is usually unknown to the laymen anyway and have a wide amount of variables ie if the person was on drugs, did the billet hit bone, did it hit in a vital area, did the bullet expand, how long before they dropped, how many rounds were fired, how many rounds were actually needed, etc, etc and someone to decide how to interpret the data.
 
Terry Newton said:
Ballistics, gel, penetration tests, blah, blah, blah............

None of that means squat.

The only thing that matters is how often the particular cartridge with a particular bullet puts down the bad guy/girl on the street in the quickest manner.

That is the only true test of any cartridge designed for self defense.
Click to expand...

Actually, ballistic gel testing is the only scientifically valid way of testing a bullets terminal effects and the accuracy of gelatin testing has been corroborated by autopsy data. The Marshal and Sanow one-shot-stop statistics (and i use the tern statistics very lightly) have be repeatedly refuted as junk science.

Sid Post said:
Big and slow or fast and light? It doesn't really matter that much when you have good shot placement because both will work in normal situations.
Click to expand...

While shot placement is the most important aspect, it actually does matter. Having insufficient penetration to reach vital structures means that your perfectly placed shot was wasted. Whether the round is big or small, fast or slow, it must be able to meet a minimum standard of penetration (12" minimum as determined by the IWBA). If you're using ultralight, hypervelocity prefragmented ammunition, there is a strong likelyhood that your perfect COM shot will have a less than desired effect.

bigkahunasix said:
Having actually used both a .45 acp and a 9mm in life or death situations...
Click to expand...

Not to discount your experiance, but it's all circumstantial, that is, unless you went back in time and shot the very same guy 6 times under controlled circumstances.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top