Can we bring khukuri into National Park?

[Last Visible Canary]

That is not the case. You do not need a permit to carry a knife or khuk in the national parks. All state laws are still in effect, however. If I were concerned about running into a forest ranger who did not know his own law, I'd carry a copy of it in my pocket.

PS I see the links do not work- I am sorry for that.
munk

your links are abbriviated links - the "..." in the center of them shouldn't be there. if you can find the full link, it should work.

 

[munk]

Thanks. I tried fixing them but cannot. Where I pulled them they work fine- but cut and paste does not. There an explanation for that? At any rate, 'weapon ' is defined; there's nothing else in the statute. They also define 'person' and 'watercraft'.....
"Last Visible Canary": is that the one used in Coal mines in Britain to test the air? Always thought it was a good handle.


munk

 

[Cpl Punishment]

psychological/social: I am more weary of people openly carrying blades then of those who have them, but I only notice them on the off chance when they bend over or their clothes brush against them. why? because I know better then to open carry a blade in public, or any instance where I expect sheeple to be present. it's common courtesy to try to avoid scaring those around you - whatever the reason they might be scared of you for.

Your location is showing through.
Living in a less communist state, it's legal here, barring local ordinance, to carry any size blade openly. So, "knowing better then to open carry a blade in public" isn't a factor everywhere.

And I do not feel any obligation to jump to alleviate one's irrational fears. Once you do that, people learn they can control you simply by saying that "I's beez skeered" whenever you're doing something they don't want you to do. There's no reason to fear a blade of any size, unless it's drawn and brandished toward you.

 

[ivan51]

"And I do not feel any obligation to jump to alleviate one's irrational fears. Once you do that, people learn they can control you simply by saying that "I's beez skeered" whenever you're doing something they don't want you to do. There's no reason to fear a blade of any size, unless it's drawn and brandished toward you."

LOL

 

[Last Visible Canary]

Thanks. I tried fixing them but cannot. Where I pulled them they work fine- but cut and paste does not. There an explanation for that? At any rate, 'weapon ' is defined; there's nothing else in the statute. They also define 'person' and 'watercraft'.....
"Last Visible Canary": is that the one used in Coal mines in Britain to test the air? Always thought it was a good handle.


munk

yes, if your trying to copy a link the link may be abbreviated in what is shown as text, but the hyperlink url it uses to direct you is complete. if you right click over the link and select "copy link location" and then paste it, it should be the full link. the same can also be said for the shown url when visiting the page, you may have to find a way to get at the full url another way instead of just copying the url box. it can get difficult sometimes, especially with stuff like popups and some pdf's. I trust your qoutes are direct, so in the end it's a lot of hassle that won't do much

last visible canary is actually an abstraction of "last visible dog" from "a Mouse and His Son" by Russel Hoban.

the full movie (the start of the scene involving the origin of the handle starts at 49:00):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1OWdw1IwdYY
the book:
http://www.amazon.com/Mouse-His-Chi...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216605743&sr=8-1


for my purposes, yes, it is a mine shaft canary

either looking forward, to the limits of where you can go safely into the darkness, or backwards, knowing what danger you will have to cross to get back to safety, to home.

Your location is showing through.
Living in a less communist state, it's legal here, barring local ordinance, to carry any size blade openly. So, "knowing better then to open carry a blade in public" isn't a factor everywhere.

And I do not feel any obligation to jump to alleviate one's irrational fears. Once you do that, people learn they can control you simply by saying that "I's beez skeered" whenever you're doing something they don't want you to do. There's no reason to fear a blade of any size, unless it's drawn and brandished toward you.

I come from california, but I currently live in washington. the rules are different here, but I still hold to my state of social awareness and moderation. people look you in the eyes here, not expecting to start a fight which I will never get used to.

I'll carry what I'll carry wether legal or not, but doing something that I know will cause attention to be brought to me by those around me, especially those who would otherwise not pay attention to me is something I passively attempt to avoid in all that I do. theres no reason for me to tell someone I have a knife if I don't have to, especially in an area where it is uncommon. if they need to know, I'll tell them, if they don't then I'll go about my merry way blending into the crowd.

i had to edit this to avoid "giving advice" because no one needs to follow the rules I set for myself. my "advice" about dealing with national parks like you would government buildings still stands though. certainly it will change from area to area, but if you want to avoid stepping on toes whether legal or not, stick to what is necessary and try not to be showy about it.

 

[christcl]

Thanks again for all the information and stories. Its been helpful.

Ok, we have two options. The guys want to rough it and get a real campsite and really rough it. If thats the case, I will bring my M43 and justify it by saying we need it for our firewood and camp chores. I don't plan to make a scene with it. =) Just when we going hiking or exploring, it feels funner when we lug equipment around. If anything, it will probably be strapped to my backpack as discreet as possible.

If we get a lodge, as the girls want, then I will probably just bring my 8inch SwampRat or ZeroTolerance fixed blade.

 

[fearn]

That is not the case. You do not need a permit to carry a knife or khuk in the national parks. All state laws are still in effect, however. If I were concerned about running into a forest ranger who did not know his own law, I'd carry a copy of it in my pocket.

Thanks Munk. I stand corrected and educated, and happy to be so. California has some weird blade laws (banning, for instance, throwing stars), but so far as I know, khukuris are still legal to carry in California.

And thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt, Andy and Ted. I appreciate it.

F

 

[ilbruche]

The danger of bringing a khuk into a park is dealing with rangers.

I have worked in the parks and a lot of the LE rangers are overzealous control freaks. You have 2 types of rangers...the non LEO rangers who man the gates, give talks, maintain trails and do wildlife research. Then you have the LEO's.

The LEO rangers in some parks take their job waaay too seriously. Especially in Zion.

I'd say a lot of the rangers would consider a khuk a "weapon". If I was going to carry one I'd have it in my pack.

I must also say that there is little reason for a khuk in most parks. During the summer a vast majority of them have fire bans even in the campgrounds. The backcountry sites almost always prohibit campfires and you're limited to stoves only. Most of the parks are tinderboxes waiting to go up. If every backcountry camper had a fire there would be way more fires.....something the park doesn't want to deal with for many reasons. Mainly because a burn area is unsightly and they don't want visitor numbers to drop.

Collecting firewood is also prohibited in most parks. Taking anything from a park is prohibited. Rocks, feathers, bones, dirt, sticks, dead bugs, etc. Even in campgrounds you have to buy wood in town or from the dudes that drive around the campground and sell it.

So for most parks I see little reason for carrying a khuk. You can't have fires and you can't chop any trees for building shelters. What other reason does that give you? Self defense? Perhaps. I'd rather carry a stout staff.....I'm pretty good with a bo staff.

If you want to carry a khuk for chopping wood........find some nice BLM land and do whatever you want. No rangers and far less restrictions.

 

[tedwca]

Fixed your links munk.

 

[tedwca]

FWIW, I've actually wrestled with two different cougars at separate times. One was 180lb male cat and the other is about 160lb male cat. I was in the enclosure taking photos with them and ended up wrestling with them when they jumped up on me. Both were declawed, but had their canines intact and I'm over 300lbs. They both acted the exact same way. They put their paws on my shoulders or arms and tried to pull me over. As long as I stood upright they didn't really know what to do.(kinda like a boxer on the ground with a UFC fighter) I have no doubt that if they were seriously attacking(they were not) a knife would be very effective against them as I had perfect access to their chest and stomach. As it was I was able to push them away and they went back to playing with the items they were playing with before they thought I might make a fun toy.

Cougars and most cats are hard wired for 4 legged prey and they don't really get a human's layout. If you are crouched over or if they can pull you over so you match the profile of their normal prey they know where the neck is. Standing up straight is confusing to them. I can only think of one case where the person was attacked while in an upright stance(I don't know of ALL the cases, obviously) and his wife was able to drive the cat off with a pen and a stick.

 

[munk]

Thank you, Ted. Thanks for encouraging Peace also.


Ilbruche; it really depends upon the Park whether or not you can burn and what you can burn. The bit I transferred from Sequoia was talking about fires in certain places and dead wood pickup. Dead wood needs to be cut.



How much weapon and why is up the individual. I've never had trouble without any, but I do know of violent crime in the Parks, and it would seem a deterent, the same way the presence of handguns and shall issue laws deter crime. (Gary Kleck found bad behavior stopped when a gun was sighted in most instances) IN many of the parks there is an ill feeling, a 'every man for himself' attitude. I remember the day 40 years ago when you saw another hiker or vehicle you honked or waved, but the last time I went to Yellowstone the tourists kept to themselves and followed the rule; never talk to strangers. Perhaps it was only this stranger...there was a regular group hug when I wasn't around. But seriously, I found many visitors hopelessly uptight. And local criminals do prey on visitors to national parks. I suppose carrying any weapon is almost always based not on the probability of ever having to use it, but of the consequences that one time you did need it and it wasn't available because there was no 'use' for it in the national parks. And why is there no use? Because the ranger is going to protect you?



munk


a PS....when I hiked alone in the San Bernardinos, I eventually carried a Ruger Blkhawk 41 mag with a 7.5" barrel...and ran into some trouble with Rangers who were confused about what I could carry in a wilderness area. They thought the regs were like the national parks!! I was never stopped, but one told me it was a citation offense, and this was not resolved until I called the Superintendent of the entire forest who apologized for his Rangers. I came to carry a xerox copy of the relevant law in my pocket, and if you think you're entering a politically correct forest, that might be a good idea with knife regs too. The point of the khuk is that next to a gun, it's the the best. I don't agree the poster who had different lengths for different assignments, and that is my point- everyone is different and deserves to carry what they have decided is best for them.

 

[kronckew]

don't mess with them squirrels, theys nasty.

the hybrid squiders are even worse tho.

luckily they do have natural predators.

even paranoids have enemies.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Last Visible Canary:
I didn't mean my post to come down on you (sorry if you felt that I did), but to show that such attitudes are regional. Where I live, it's fairly normal to see a man out and about with a Ka-Bar sized knife on his hip. Even in places like Wal Mart. Heck, even in the gun stores, which make you check your firearm when you come in, couldn't care less how big a knife you carry. That is to say, that carrying a knife, even a large one doesn't attract attention in town, much less in the woods. Now, walking down the street, a cop would probably ask why you had a kukri. In the woods, they'll ask if they can see it and where you got it, how much was it, etc.

In the National Parks around here, they'll definitely have a fit if you have anything that looks hunting oriented: rifle, handgun, crossbow, bow, spear, etc. But kukris, hatchets, machetes? Not a problem, except interrupting you to find out where they can get one. Heck, some will even ask if they can take a few swings at some deadfall!

All depends on where you're at, and what people are used to there.

 

[Steely_Gunz]

Boy am I late to the party

I saw this thread a couple days ago, looked at the question, read the first answer or two and said, "That's nice."

I had no idea it was going to turn into bit of a weeing match

I'm glad everything worked out and lines in the sand were rubbed smooth.

IMHO, different strokes for different folks. When I camp, I always take a nice big khuk to split the wood I bring for a fire....as well as a plethora of other knives to play with.
When I just hike, i like to pack light. I bring a light 14" Siru or 12" AK/UBE that won't pull my pants down. I wear it openly, but I don't swing it around in front of people out of respect. It's there if I need it.
When I hike AND camp (as in humping it to the site), I pack my 12" Khuk on my hip and a lightish chopper on my ruck with sort of a cozy over the handle. It both protects the handle from getting snagged, and quite honestly it doesn't weird out any other hikers.

Personally, I have absolutely no problem with anyone bringing whatever tools they want into a wilderness setting. As long as they aren't being a total jack@$$ and harming the trees, then let them use what they want. Furthermore, I also understand that today's national parks are not as wild and woolly as they once were. Many, many, many people get by without a large blade and are a bit freaked out by them. It's not their fault. Programming has reinforced such learned behavior. But, I do my best to try to respect their timidness by not flaunting my tools that they perceive as weapons.

Long story short, thanks to Munk's research I have the freedom to pretty much pack whatever I want short of a firearm in a public park. I also have the common courtesy to respect others good time by being discrete.

Edit to add: I have never once been hassled by a ranger about my khuk. The handful that have seen me using it ask where I got it.

 

[tedwca]

It's OK Jake, I think it turned out well, Lots of good information was uncovered and no one got out of hand. I think everyone handled the discussion as adults with different opinions. That's what I look for here at the Cantina. Maturity.

 

[TWBryan]

What I got out of it:
California sucks.
National Parks suck.
If I go hiking I need to carry a large backpack with tedwca inside to fend off any cougars that jump on my back.

Did I miss anything?

 

[tedwca]

What I got out of it:
California sucks.
National Parks suck.
If I go hiking I need to carry a large backpack with tedwca inside to fend off any cougars that jump on my back.

Did I miss anything?

LOL, if you can carry me for any distance I don't think you need any help with cougars.

Here's a pic of Apache, if you look close you can see me in his eyes.

Here's me with a couple cheetahs. I'm bigger now:grumpy:

 

[TWBryan]

Nice looking kitties. Since lifting you would be difficult I think I will contact the trunk-monkey people for a backpack model, I'll give the monkey the khukuri and it'll deal with the cougars and rangers.

 

[ivan51]

What I got out of it:
California sucks.
National Parks suck.
If I go hiking I need to carry a large backpack with tedwca inside to fend off any cougars that jump on my back.

Did I miss anything?

HAHA think you hit the nail on the head

 

[C.S. Graves]

I'll carry what I'll carry wether legal or not, but doing something that I know will cause attention to be brought to me by those around me, especially those who would otherwise not pay attention to me is something I passively attempt to avoid in all that I do. theres no reason for me to tell someone I have a knife if I don't have to, especially in an area where it is uncommon. if they need to know, I'll tell them, if they don't then I'll go about my merry way blending into the crowd.

This more or less sums up my stance in this heated thread.

Personally, as much as I'd love to bring a khuk with me on a hike, I'd probably fare much better with a big ol' jug o' water and antihistamines.