Can't believe I'm saying this, but Schrade.........

[Bugout Bill]

I feel this is a bit of an unfair statement, as Scurvy mentioned we do use 3CR on the new Starter series and some promotional opportunities. Let's please not make it sound more than it is.



Crap packs...interesting. It's important to remember who we are as a manufacturer, and the internal goals we strive for. We've mentioned many times that we are a manufacturer that desires to have offerings for everyone. I'd say today, we are the only brand(s) that can service entry level, opening price point crap (your words), to an ultra premium output, and everywher in between. We do it all.

You want to criticize when you should be applauding. We're trying to expand the industry via the mass retailers in this country, and the product is just not good enough for you personally. So it's crap?

Perhaps a little understanding is needed here. Not every knife we put out is going to be for you 04tg, but to go out of your way to call out those that are not for you is pretty crappy in itself. JMO.

I think it is remarkable that an official representative of a major company (that no longer has a presence on this forum) felt the need to enter a thread that isn't about his/her employers, attack a poster for a colloquial statement, and then demand respect from the rest of those on the thread.

 

[Kai Corp.]

I think it is remarkable that an official representative of a major company (that no longer has a presence on this forum) felt the need to enter a thread that isn't about his/her employers, attack a poster for a colloquial statement, and then demand respect from the rest of those on the thread.

Ok, I'm back out, thanks BB.

 

[Codger_64]

Thomas here. Sorry don't really post here anymore, but wanted to chime in.

Well heck, there's a complete turnaround attitude LOL Starting a thread and ending it with completely different perspectives.

I feel this is a bit of an unfair statement, as Scurvy mentioned we do use 3CR on the new Starter series and some promotional opportunities. Let's please not make it sound more than it is.

Crap packs...interesting. It's important to remember who we are as a manufacturer, and the internal goals we strive for. We've mentioned many times that we are a manufacturer that desires to have offerings for everyone. I'd say today, we are the only brand(s) that can service entry level, opening price point crap (your words), to an ultra premium output, and everywher in between. We do it all.

You want to criticize when you should be applauding. We're trying to expand the industry via the mass retailers in this country, and the product is just not good enough for you personally. So it's crap?

Perhaps a little understanding is needed here. Not every knife we put out is going to be for you 04tg, but to go out of your way to call out those that are not for you is pretty crappy in itself. JMO.

I've noticed you've been a big voice around here with regard to who makes what where in China, and have some understanding of these China factories strengths and weaknesses. Could you elaborate on where you draw your knowledge on this subject from? Appreciate.

Glad to see your input here! Yes, any company which tries to service a broad spectrum of pricepoints is going to endure criticism, often unfair, of their entire line as well as their business model.

"Crap packs". I love it. I saw the same when Schrade introduced their clampack knives back in the eighties, even having a patent on the packaging. It was a boon to merchants in reducing shelf wear on boxes, nearly eleminating pilfering and allowing customers to chicken eye though not coon finger the contents. A very good innovation, IMHO. And the same product that was also sold in regular fold down and more expensive gift boxes.

I understand the angst over the Schrade/Camillus closings and new ownerships of the marks. More than most people here. I have spent countless hours and dollars researching the histories, the people and products and have a substantial collection of their knives. They both, under original ownership, made knives for every pricepoint and tried to service every interest. And the new owners are not doing anything substantially different.

But the wonderful thing about having so many brands of knives is that if, for whatever reason, real or imagined, one develops an angst against one brand/maker (I heard that the President of KAI doesn't like kittens), there are plenty of alternatives to choose from. And then there is the little recognized fact that many makers share features and designs, sometimes under license, sometimes because they are not public property (public domain) not propriatary and anyone can make their version of the design.

Thanks again for dropping in to give a manufacturer's perspective KAI. I'm pretty sure that Stewart would but he doesn't need the headache! :thumbup:

 

[Bugout Bill]

"Crap packs". I love it. I saw the same when Schrade introduced their clampack knives back in the eighties, even having a patent on the packaging. It was a boon to merchants in reducing shelf wear on boxes, nearly eleminating pilfering and allowing customers to chicken eye though not coon finger the contents. A very good innovation, IMHO. And the same product that was also sold in regular fold down and more expensive gift boxes.

I'm pretty sure Benchmade sells stuff in the clam shell packs.

And then there is the little recognized fact that many makers share features and designs, sometimes under license, sometimes because they are not public property (public domain) not propriatary and anyone can make their version of the design.

That Manaro clone is a little much.

 

[Codger_64]

I'm pretty sure Benchmade sells stuff in the clam shell packs.



That Manaro clone is a little much.

Have you asked Sal about it?

 

[rsngfrce]

Ok, I'm back out, thanks BB.

Personally, I was VERY pleased to see you post... I am a hugh Kershaw fan and unfortunately joined this forum after KAI had already left, and I consider the lack of a Kershaw dedicated forum to be a very large void here. Hopefully, KAI will someday reconsider this decision for the people benefit of the people who LIKE their knives, and control improper levels of rude dissension with deletions or such. But back to the topic...

In my relatively lower priced knife world, I find Schrade to be about the only company that seems to be putting any sort of overall challenge up to Kershaw's dominance.

 

[Bugout Bill]

In my relatively lower priced knife world, I find Schrade to be about the only company that seems to be putting any sort of overall challenge up to Kershaw's dominance.

Kershaw doesn't steal designs.

 

[NeilB]

Nice to see you again, Thomas. Always appreciate your perspective.

 

[RevDevil]

I think it is remarkable that an official representative of a major company (that no longer has a presence on this forum) felt the need to enter a thread that isn't about his/her employers, attack a poster for a colloquial statement, and then demand respect from the rest of those on the thread.

It wasn't an attack Bill, for cryin out loud. It was offering some clarification that was apparently willfully neglected by too many "aficionados" these days. Asking to not be crapped on or speculated on is now an attack. Are you serious right now? Really? Come on Bill. Nice cheap shot about the "no longer having a presence here. Totally uncalled for, what I would call a punk move (as a member, not as a moderator of course); lest I fall under the microscope myself and have my improprieties broadcast publicly.

Funny how some people treat being educated with the same apprehension as a trip to a blind medieval dentist.

 

[severedthumbs]

It' beyond me why anyone would copy the Bullseye design. Thats one ugly knife design!

 

[Tripwire895]

[video=youtube;eruE5Uka5Pw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eruE5Uka5Pw[/video]

First knife is a Sal Manaro/Boker Bullseye ripoff.
Second is very Crusader Forge-esque.

There's a bunch of other knives of theirs that are either direct ripoffs or very similar to other knives.
The SCH401L is a copy of a Boker Plus Anti-Grav.
The SCH203T is a ZT 0400 copy.
The SCH F2SM is a copy of a Chris Reeve Integral Fixed blade (can't remember the model)
The SCHF3 copies The handle design from Chris Reeves fixed blade like the Green Beret and Pacific

Those are just the ones I knew were copies of other knives. There are countless others that I couldn't put my finger on.

:thumbdn:

Honestly, in addition to what looked like a couple copies (I'm not going to get into that), I have one huge issue with the model he introduces at 3:49. I think that one needlessly blurs the line between assisted and automatic. On one hand, it's advertised as assisted on BHQ and can be opened using thumbstuds. On the other hand, in Missouri, a switchblade is defined as...

(18) "Switchblade knife" means any knife which has a blade that folds or closes into the handle or sheath, and
(a) That opens automatically by pressure applied to a button or other device located on the handle
(b) That opens or releases from the handle or sheath by the force of gravity or by the application of centrifugal force.

571.020. 1. A person commits a crime if such person knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells:
(7) A switchblade knife;

... The argument for assisted openers is that any opening mechanism to propel the blade into motion from rest is on the blade (think most flippers and every thumbstud I've ever seen). Since the "finger actuator" is not actually part of the blade but rather is attached to the handle, it would be pretty easy to convince people that's a switchblade. I think mechanisms like this aren't what the knife community needs in a time of ever stricter laws.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

In my relatively lower priced knife world, I find Schrade to be about the only company that seems to be putting any sort of overall challenge up to Kershaw's dominance.

Schrade went out of business almost a decade ago.

 

[Codger_64]

Pretty sure he meant the branding, not the Imperial Schrade Corporation.

 

[Morrow]

I think it is remarkable that an official representative of a major company (that no longer has a presence on this forum) felt the need to enter a thread that isn't about his/her employers, attack a poster for a colloquial statement, and then demand respect from the rest of those on the thread.

Attack? Demand respect? You need to get a grip on reality.

EDIT: I'm actually a bit irritated you're trying to turn an honest and informative post into something else. Keep it up.

 

[buckthorn]

It ain't Schrade. Just like how Camilius ain't Camilius.

You're so right! Think of the (lack of) morality involved in buying a dead company's name and then just continuing to use it to sell poor quality knives!

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

Pretty sure he meant the branding, not the Imperial Schrade Corporation.

I am sure they sell a lot of knives to people familiar with the name but unaware that it no longer means a thing.

 

[o4tg]

Thomas here. Sorry don't really post here anymore, but wanted to chime in.



Well heck, there's a complete turnaround attitude LOL Starting a thread and ending it with completely different perspectives.
P

I feel this is a bit of an unfair statement, as Scurvy mentioned we do use 3CR on the new Starter series and some promotional opportunities. Let's please not make it sound more than it is.



Crap packs...interesting. It's important to remember who we are as a manufacturer, and the internal goals we strive for. We've mentioned many times that we are a manufacturer that desires to have offerings for everyone. I'd say today, we are the only brand(s) that can service entry level, opening price point crap (your words), to an ultra premium output, and everywher in between. We do it all.

You want to criticize when you should be applauding. We're trying to expand the industry via the mass retailers in this country, and the product is just not good enough for you personally. So it's crap?

Perhaps a little understanding is needed here. Not every knife we put out is going to be for you 04tg, but to go out of your way to call out those that are not for you is pretty crappy in itself. JMO.


I've noticed you've been a big voice around here with regard to who makes what where in China, and have some understanding of these China factories strengths and weaknesses. Could you elaborate on where you draw your knowledge on this subject from? Appreciate.

Yes, I most certainly can state that I like the looks of a product, but have no intention of buying it. Maybe I'm weird like that? Never knew that was something that was frowned on.

I remember another of my favorite brands that changed it up and started focusing on entry level knives with every single expense cut. It then spread like an infection through the company over the years. Not saying it WILL happen to KAI, but the signs are there. Gerber is still trying to convince the knife enthusiast market they are valid again, despite selling millions of crap pack knives over the years to uneducated Walmart buyers. Again, not saying that's what's happening here, but you have to understand why people are concerned when you start offering knives that have absolutely no focus but making money off of the unsuspecting and ignorant.

The signs being using 3CR/420J2. You want honesty? Regardless of pricing, this steel has no place in a folding knife, and I think offering it is wrong. I know it's business and you want to attract millions in Walmart revenue, but that still doesn't justify making a knife that has essentially the worst actual blade steel you could find. Again, that's my opinion which likely doesn't matter anymore to you at this point.

As I sit here with an 0350 and Skyline within a few feet of me, yes, those packages are crap packs. The blade steel is pointless for a company as established and known for quality as you guys are, IN MY OPINION. Opinions vary though and even though it's conjecture, I'd almost bet every knife in my collection you most certainly don't have one of your 3CR knives in your pocket.

While I'm flattered you looked in my recent posts, I'm also offended you didn't also note that one of the knives I recommend the most is the ZT 0350. Look at it this way though. The more knives you offer with bottom of the barrel blade steel, the more you expose yourself to negative opinions. How many people will buy these knives and make a few cuts only to have sub par experiences that they will convey to their friends about the brand.

And FYI, I do appreciate your input and was not insulted by your post. With all due respect, I still highly disagree with your use of 3CR. That is just my opinion, which I don't expect to have any impact on your line up or choices.

 

[Codger_64]

I am sure they sell a lot of knives to people familiar with the name but unaware that it no longer means a thing.

Like GEC and most other knifemakers? Northfield UN-X-LD (1858 - 1919) and Tidioute Cutlery (1897 - 1911). Schrade Cutlery Co. was 1904 - 1945. The Hammerbrand belonged to New York Knife until they bankrupted then it was later bought and used by IKCO. Remington hasn't produced knives since 1940. Robeson closed in 1965. The new owner continued to make knives under that name just like Robeson did when they bought out Kinfolks.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

They are not Taylor.

 

[rsngfrce]

I am sure they sell a lot of knives to people familiar with the name but unaware that it no longer means a thing.

I apologize for my ignorance... though, based on your condescending and unrequested response, I would personally say something else went out of business almost a decade ago, assuming it ever existed in the first place...