Can't believe I'm saying this, but Schrade.........

[Inazone]

I own four knives that, by all appearances, are identical except for the logo on the blade. One is stamped "Schrade USA XT2B" and another "Schrade XT2B" minus the "USA" stamp; the latter was made in China after Taylor acquired the Schrade name. The other two, both USA-made, are a Rigid and an Outdoor Life. The packaging on both suggests that they were made by United Cutlery, but I don't know the history there. Regardless, they look identical in every way. Why own four of what is essentially the same knife? I bought the Taylor-made (Chinese) version first, liked it a lot, and made a point to find a USA version. After buying a used one, I learned from various reviews and whatnot that the Rigid and Outdoor Life knives were the same. I have no idea what kind of steel was used for any of them, the USA Schrade included, but I don't really mind. In this case, the USA Schrade (and the other two USA-made "copies") came first, but the Chinese version made under Taylor's ownership is loyal to the original as far as I can tell. I feel that there must be some connection between Schrade and United Cutlery in terms of the manufacturing, just as there is with various Chinese knives sold under different brand names today.

That's not to say that there aren't some outright ripoffs out there, because there certainly are, but it seems to me that it comes down to owners of one manufacturer's products being far more upset over another manufacturer's "theft" of a design than the original manufacturer ever was. I'm a guitar guy, and popular/classic designs are copied all the time. This isn't an accident, but it's not necessarily malicious. It's when someone deliberately makes fakes (usually in China) with the original logo and copied design in an effort to knowingly deceive customers that the real trouble starts. Schrade is a household name among knife owners, and if they are deliberately and illegally copying another manufacturer's product, that's going to show up "on radar" pretty fast. If the original manufacturer knows about it and doesn't take issue or pursue legal action, I take that to mean that either 1) there is already an arrangement between the two companies or 2) the "original" manufacturer doesn't have a patent or exclusive license and knows they don't have grounds for legal action. We as consumers may never know.

It occurs to me that three of the five Schrade knives I own were made under Taylor's ownership of the brand, but I have yet to find any shortcomings as it pertains to their function as cutting tools. As collector pieces, they have no particular value. So, if the discriminating knife enthusiast can - for example - recite the specs of a CRK original and afford that knife, while the casual buyer opts for Schrade's much cheaper copy with no regard for the design's history or original specs, that's no different from countless other products.

 

[Ahk]

I dont care if Taylor brands bought out a DEAD company and is marketing it. At least they are bringing life to it. Yes it will never be the same quality as the old schrade but at least the company isnt 6 feet under. And who knows they could bring manufactering back to the US and in years to come they could start to produce the same quality that they used to.As of right now their schrade/taylor brand knives are not bad, for the price point. Im just glad the brand is alive although its not the same...its still back

 

[Bugout Bill]

I dont care if Taylor brands bought out a DEAD company and is marketing it. At least they are bringing life to it.

There is a difference between rebirth and necromancy.

Yes it will never be the same quality as the old schrade but at least the company isnt 6 feet under. And who knows they could bring manufactering back to the US and in years to come they could start to produce the same quality that they used to.As of right now their schrade/taylor brand knives are not bad, for the price point. Im just glad the brand is alive although its not the same...its still back

When US manufacturing returns, they will have my full support. And no, some of taylor's products (smith and wesson) arent as bad as people make them out to be.

 

[Ahk]

There is a difference between rebirth and necromancy.

Necromancy..You just made my night. Thankyou, ive never heard someone put it that way. you do have a point XD

 

[buckthorn]

If they want to make knives and sell them fine, but why be a parasite and trade on a no longer existent company's name? If you don't think Schrade or Camillus is dead take a ride to Ellenville, NY or Camillus, NY. While you're there, stop and talk with some of the folks who worked in those factories and see how they feel about all this. Moving production out of the country is bad enough when the original company has done the moving and remains in business. To do what Taylor has done is really sleazy (sorry for using that word but it fits).

 

[Codger_64]

A lot of angst here. But it is just the way of the world. Knives with nostalgia marks are a fact of the industry and the market it serves. And it has always been so. In the 1870's when it wasn't possible to get enough domestic made knives to satisfy growing market demands, cutlery suppliers began importing heavily from England and Germany. Domestic cutleries resented the loss of market shares and prompted McKinley to impose a heavy import tariff in an attempt to curb imports and regain market shares. For a while it worked, but it prompted the suppliers to open their own domestic cutleries as well as their own facilities overseas. And so not only did they import English and German knives, they imported the cutlers as well. And their manufacturing methods. Out of this root grew the largest cutlery manufacturer in the world which was always seeking ways to gain more market share, less expensive manufacturing. But after more than a hundred years it failed. It was not the fault of any person outside of the company. It was ownership/management problems, unable to sufficiently change to meet a changing market.

 

[upnorth]

I don't know what to think about my Sharde ''sharp Finger'' these days. I was informed that the new Taylor pieces were inferior to the old. But then I read that they are 440 C and stand up as well as the old 1095 ? knives ?....Confusing.

 

[luke213]

I've got a couple old schrade knives that I like for cutting up deer but the new ones are impressive for the price to me being a bit of a bargain knife guy.

Luke

 

[Codger_64]

Ah... but for those so inclined, for whatever reason, there are still millions of Sharde originals of every flavor out there waiting to be bought! Myself, I am still miffed that I can't buy a new Willys Overland like they used to make. I hear they are putting the Jeep name on Chrysler products now. And building them out of parts sourced overseas and even in Canada!

 

[Inazone]

If they want to make knives and sell them fine, but why be a parasite and trade on a no longer existent company's name? If you don't think Schrade or Camillus is dead take a ride to Ellenville, NY or Camillus, NY. While you're there, stop and talk with some of the folks who worked in those factories and see how they feel about all this. Moving production out of the country is bad enough when the original company has done the moving and remains in business. To do what Taylor has done is really sleazy (sorry for using that word but it fits).

Taylor did exactly the same thing that businesses do every day. Whether it's using the familiar name of a defunct brand (Schrade) or that of a non-knife brand (Smith & Wesson) is no different from other industries. Fender Musical Instruments has bought up numerous other, smaller companies and continues to sell instruments under those brand names despite have little or nothing in common with those companies' previous products. Most people think of Volvo as a Swedish brand, but it was actually owned by Ford and more recently by a state-owned Chinese corporation. How many times has Dodge/Chrysler changed owners in the past decade? It's all about name recognition.

Nobody would buy a knife specifically because it has a Taylor logo. Many recognize Kershaw and ZT but might not buy a "KAI" knife. People might like Fiskars scissors but probably wouldn't think to look for a Fiskars knife . . . but Gerber is a familiar brand. Branding is important, plain and simple.

 

[Bugout Bill]

It would be interesting to see US made Old Timers compare to the China made ones. Given that the Chinese seem to make slip joints well, and the fact that the materials aren't all that different, I'm sure that the quality would be pretty close.

 

[luke213]

The quality control might be the weak point right now for schrade but I bet that if you had an average to good one it would be pretty dang close. I love us made items I make them myself but I also appreciate a good bargain priced item that is quite good. I own several Kershaw knives from China and a few older us ones as well. Actually prefer the newer ones because of design but both are well made quality pocket knives.

I've got some old round knives from the late 1800's that are really nice steel and work well for what they are I've got one of their modern models and it's still us made but the quality isn't close to the older renditions design is basically the same but workmanship is not.

Luke

 

[Codger_64]

It would be interesting to see US made Old Timers compare to the China made ones. Given that the Chinese seem to make slip joints well, and the fact that the materials aren't all that different, I'm sure that the quality would be pretty close.

I have a few of Taylor's imported Schrade branded knives coming from another member who wants my opinion as I compare them to real U.S. Schrades. I'll see about posting the results when I am done. I did this back in '05-'06 with some of the earlier fixed blade patterns and those, very early production runs, did not fare too well. We'll see. I still have no collector interest in them, but they might be good cheap users.

 

[Bob W]

How good was Schrade back in the day? Camilius had alot of really nice knives, but the only US made Schrade design I'm familiar with was the infamous Cliphanger (ignoring all their old timey designs).

The Cliphanger is a pretty poor knife, IMO. So were the Irish Imperial knives.
On the other hand, the Old Timer series had a level of good and consistent quality matched by few other brands. Schrade hunting knives, like the PH1 and PH2, were excellent quality and good materials. Even the Rhode Island Imperial knives were pretty good considering the very low prices.

It would be interesting to see US made Old Timers compare to the China made ones. Given that the Chinese seem to make slip joints well, and the fact that the materials aren't all that different, I'm sure that the quality would be pretty close.

I don't find the new delrin anywhere near as nicely done as the originals; the finished dye job just looks 'flat'. And the originals were generally 1095 carbon steel, while the current import Old Timers are all stainless (some original OT models were stainless too).

While I don't have a modern Old Timer to compare, I have been gifted a couple of China-made Imperial knives. The quality is pretty bad, almost as bad as the Irish-made era examples.

 

[Codger_64]

Here is a web-mined example of the TBLLC SCH897.

 

[Bugout Bill]

The Cliphanger is a pretty poor knife, IMO. So were the Irish Imperial knives.
On the other hand, the Old Timer series had a level of good and consistent quality matched by few other brands. Schrade hunting knives, like the PH1 and PH2, were excellent quality and good materials. Even the Rhode Island Imperial knives were pretty good considering the very low prices.



I don't find the new delrin anywhere near as nicely done as the originals; the finished dye job just looks 'flat'. And the originals were generally 1095 carbon steel, while the current import Old Timers are all stainless (some original OT models were stainless too).

While I don't have a modern Old Timer to compare, I have been gifted a couple of China-made Imperial knives. The quality is pretty bad, almost as bad as the Irish-made era examples.

Oh god, the Irish Imperial. Horrifyingly bad knives, I wasn't aware that was an actual brand.

 

[Bob W]

The Imperial knife brand probably has a long and perhaps pre-Schrade history. But in 'recent' times Imperial was one of many brands used by the Imperial-Schrade Corporation that went out of business in 2004.
In the 1970s and 1980s, the most common knives around were Barlow knives made by Imperial in R.I. Really not bad construction most of the time, and very good carbon steel. At some point, mid-1980s (I forget exactly), the production was moved to Ireland where they became the lowest of the low-end Schrades such as the Apex and Tradesman knives.

I can't recall from memory, and I'm away from home at the moment, but it seems the later Frontier brand Schrades were also made in Ireland.

Schrade eventually closed the Ireland factory and moved the low-end production to China. Months later, Schrade went out of business.

 

[cncpro11]

Ah... but for those so inclined, for whatever reason, there are still millions of Sharde originals of every flavor out there waiting to be bought! Myself, I am still miffed that I can't buy a new Willys Overland like they used to make. I hear they are putting the Jeep name on Chrysler products now. And building them out of parts sourced overseas and even in Canada!

Yup.
They even demolished the factory! All that's left is one of the Overland smokestacks.

 

[PURPLEDC]

:thumbdn:

Honestly, in addition to what looked like a couple copies (I'm not going to get into that), I have one huge issue with the model he introduces at 3:49. I think that one needlessly blurs the line between assisted and automatic. On one hand, it's advertised as assisted on BHQ and can be opened using thumbstuds. On the other hand, in Missouri, a switchblade is defined as...

(18) "Switchblade knife" means any knife which has a blade that folds or closes into the handle or sheath, and
(a) That opens automatically by pressure applied to a button or other device located on the handle
(b) That opens or releases from the handle or sheath by the force of gravity or by the application of centrifugal force.

571.020. 1. A person commits a crime if such person knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells:
(7) A switchblade knife;

... The argument for assisted openers is that any opening mechanism to propel the blade into motion from rest is on the blade (think most flippers and every thumbstud I've ever seen). Since the "finger actuator" is not actually part of the blade but rather is attached to the handle, it would be pretty easy to convince people that's a switchblade. I think mechanisms like this aren't what the knife community needs in a time of ever stricter laws.

under that definitions the schrade does not qualify as an automatic knife. There was actually some type of bill passed that defines assisted opening knives and make sure they dont get lumped into switchblade laws. The schrade does not operate "automatically". This would indicate that the blade as at a fully closed at rest position of which it is fired by an internal spring or similar device. The key word here is automatically. The schrade needs to be opened manually for a short distance then the assisted mechanism takes over and ensures the blade locks up. Hence the term assisted. If the blade did not require manual manipulation at all then it would be "automatic" and there would be issues. Some dealers and states as well as local government have erred on the side of caution and unwittingly lumped them in with automatics. Now even with with these knives technically being legal you can still get arrested for them. Its not a police officers job to interpret the laws. Only to enforce them. If he feels you may he has probable cause to assume you have broken the law you can still get arrested. Then its up to you to prove you werent breaking the law. Either way these knives can be more trouble than they are worth. And you dont want to argue with a police officer that your knife is legal.

 

[Bighaze51]

I bought the collectors tin uncle Henry knives from tractor supply a few months back. I believe these models are 9cr13mov. 3 knives for $25. I couldnt find anything wrong with them. However, I've tried to like some of the other old timers and just couldnt do it. The fit and finish were terrible on them