Can't seem to find any 1095 oil

D

DirtyBrad

Joined
Dec 20, 2006
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My mom's a glass maker, so she's got a nice kiln I've been planning on using for my first knife project.

I'm using 1095 and have a screwed up piece that got close enough to finished to be a perfect guinea pig. I'd been planning on using olive oil per evenheat's page, but the more I read here, the more it seems that 1095 really needs a dedicated fast oil.

I've been looking around, but it seems like Park #50 and the like are out of stock all over. Anyone have either a line on where to buy some appropriate commercial stuff or a recipe for some home brew that will work with 1095?

If it makes a difference, the piece is about 3/16" thick and 11" overall. It's a pretty simple survival-style with about a dime-thick edge.

In the back of my mind, I'd wanted to do the test heat treat this weekend, but the lack of oil looks like it's going to block that. As always, any help from the gurus would be much appreciated.
 
In the for sale are, look for Patriqq's "Park's #50 Quench Oil" thread. Last I heard, he was still getting 5 gallon drums of P-50 and AAA. You may have to go back a page or two in the forum.

--nathan
 
E-mail sent, thank you. I'm hoping I can get away with less than $100-worth. This is still my first knife and I'm trying to keep the budget to a minimum at this stage.

I've still got my fingers crossed for Bubba's homemade super fast quench.
 
disolve enough salt in a gallon or so of water to float an egg. you will probably have to heat the water some. then heat the blade to just above 1450 and plunge it into the brineright away.
 
I haven't used brine, but your risk is higher than oil, less than water. If you've ground things out evenly and don't have any big stress risers (sharp angles), you'll probably be just fine.

--nathan
 
I'm hoping to put only blood and sweat into this knife, but I might also add some tears if that thing busts. I'm new and doing everything with hand tools, so each one of these represents quite a bit of time.

Does the brine dictate a certain position? Edge in first, point in first? I assume with the brine, I still need to lower quickly then keep it moving lengthwise, right?

I've read about a gallon a pound for oil and like 140 degrees. Same on both for the water?

I appreciate all the help. I've been asking a ton of questions lately and I hope they're not too repetitive. I've been reading all I can on this stuff trying to find answers, but a lot of the time that just leaves me with even more questions.
 
I've quenched mine in water and have never gotten any cracking. I think it only cracks if you overheat the steel, and the steel is thick.
 
DirtyBrad said:
I'm hoping to put only blood and sweat into this knife, but I might also add some tears if that thing busts. I'm new and doing everything with hand tools, so each one of these represents quite a bit of time.

Does the brine dictate a certain position? Edge in first, point in first? I assume with the brine, I still need to lower quickly then keep it moving lengthwise, right?

I've read about a gallon a pound for oil and like 140 degrees. Same on both for the water?

I appreciate all the help. I've been asking a ton of questions lately and I hope they're not too repetitive. I've been reading all I can on this stuff trying to find answers, but a lot of the time that just leaves me with even more questions.
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the first cut that a knife makes should be the surface of the quench medium i use kind of a slicing stab and the move back and forth length wise. having the steel too hot seems to be the greates cause of cracking when using water/brine.
 
I know it's not considered correct but I use 1095 and old Nicholson files for my steel and my quench oil is a mix of 20 wt. motor oil and ATF, about 50-50. I have never had a blade crack using it.
 
Doesn't that mixture wind up being relatively slow, though? While you're not cracking, are you maybe missing getting it fully hardened?
 
Nope. My test is a sharp file. The good file won't touch either 1095 or the old files done that way. It just slides over the blade and won't bite at all.

Not scientific I know but it works. I have a couple that I use all the time cutting up stuff around the house and shop. They were tempered at 425 degrees F for one hour. They hold an edge very well.

I first mixed this as an experiment. After a couple or three blades I added a little more ATF to make it about a 50 -50 mix. It has worked so well for the last couple of years I have just kept using it.
 
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arrowhead said:
Nope. My test is a sharp file. The good file won't touch either 1095 or the old files done that way. It just slides over the blade and won't bite at all.

Not scientific I know but it works. I have a couple that I use all the time cutting up stuff around the house and shop. They were tempered at 425 degrees F for one hour. They hold an edge very well.

I first mixed this as an experiment. After a couple or three blades I added a little more ATF to make it about a 50 -50 mix. It has worked so well for the last couple of years I have just kept using it.
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Unfortunately, that file test will tell you nothing about getting 1095 fully hardened, and I will bet hard earned money that you didn't. A brand new file will skate over hard pearlite just as if it were good hard martensite, and while you say your blades hold a good edge, there is no way that they are at their full potential. 1095 must cool from 1475°/1500° to below 900° in under one second to reach full hardness. Even ATF alone will not get this done. I can guarantee your blades are a mix of pearlite and martensite. The martensite prevents your file from cutting the pearlite, but you can safely bet that it is there with that quench oil mix. Canola oil will do a better job than that mix, but Parks #50, or an equivalent is the best in oils for 1095. If one is adventurous, brine will beat both.
 
I have used canola oil for my 1095 blades:o and everyone that has used my knives was happy with the performance of their knives. However, it is true that even with the canola oil, the steel is not getting as hard as it could possibly be. I found this out when I went to go make some flint strikers out of 1095. When I quenched them in the canola oil, they did not throw sparks very well. When I quenched them in just some heated water, they would throw sparks like crazy. With old fashioned flint and steel strikers, I know that the harder the steel is, the more sparks they generate. I think that was a good indication though that my blades probably did not get fully hardened in the canola oil. I for one, am going to either stick with O1 or 1080/1084...that is until I can get some proper quench oil. I do like 1095 though. The only thing I like better about the O1 is that when I get it, it is fully annealed, the 1095 is still pretty hard.
 
Houghton Quench K is a fast oil. I have been using it and have had no problems.

As for homemade quenchants... canola oil has worked well for me. It has one of the highest flashpoints beside peanut oil. Preheat to 130F for best results. I can get 5160 to 60RC (as quenched) and 1080 to 62RC which isn't that bad for an organic oil.

Rick
 
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Brine seems to be pulling ahead.

Are we talking about girl with the umbrella salt from the cabinet or do I need something special?

Is there a reason not to max out the salt? If I remember my high school chemistry, the water can hold a certain amount of salt in solution (super-saturated?).
 
And I'll point out that the problem with "not getting full hard" isn't the lack of hardness - it is a symptom of pearlite which plays hell with edge stability. If you like to sharpen your blades to an acute angle - the presences of pearlite (very fine alternating bands of carbide that will skate a file and weak soft iron) will cause a fine edge to chip or roll over. And folks who have never really used a knife with a good steel and good heat treat and a good edge geometry don't "get it".

If you're hell bent to do this without a good quench oil, perhaps try brine. The presences of salt destabilizes the vapor jacket, leading to a more even quench which will reduce soft spots and warping. If you pull it out after about 8 seconds you can try to straighten any warps with gloved hands while it is falling through the martensite formation.

Try 3/4 pound table salt in a gallon of water. Agitate well.
 
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