Can't seem to find any 1095 oil

Since no one commented on Brownell's Tough Quench oil I looked it up. Website says it has a low rate of heat transfer to minimize cracking and distortion. Also says it is for all oil quenched steel. Draw your own conclusions but it sounds like it would be too slow for 1095.
 
Based on what I've read here, it seems like brine or #50 are the only way to get the most out of the 1095. The risk of cracking or bad warpage with brine was too high to me and I couldn't find the #50 anywhere quick, so I opted to start over in 0-1.

If I'd done a little more research, it's what I would have started with from the beginning, I think.
 
Don Hanson III said:
Remember we are quenching thin knife blades not large chunks. Think about it folks! That thin edge is going to cool much quicker than a 1" ball.
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That's right! :)

Geometry is a big part of it. However, if you get the edge too thin it either warps and/or air chills before it hits the quenching medium. It's a fine line, with very little margin for error.

If you do everything just right, you can get within one point of full hardness along the edge/point section with canola...
 
My feelings is that us new guys have to take out as many variables as possible. I'd rather follow the rules as well as I can until I have some actual experience on which to base variation.
 
True DB, but don't forget that,... Shortening the "learning curve", also shortens the "learning"...
 
arrowhead said:
Since no one commented on Brownell's Tough Quench oil I looked it up. Website says it has a low rate of heat transfer to minimize cracking and distortion. Also says it is for all oil quenched steel. Draw your own conclusions but it sounds like it would be too slow for 1095.
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You must have missed this; :)
The 11 second Mcmaster carr oil will work fine for 1095. Don Fogg and Matt Lamey quench 1095 in Tough Quench with good results and it's a slower oil.
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On paper it is too slow ;)
 
I don't see how we can talk about quench speed, and/or quench depth,... without talking about geometry...

"Geometry" effects everything!
 
Bill Burke said:
the first cut that a knife makes should be the surface of the quench medium i use kind of a slicing stab and the move back and forth length wise. having the steel too hot seems to be the greates cause of cracking when using water/brine.
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Well said Mr. Burke, even I can relate to that. Now go to work those folks in Pheonex are depending on you.;):D
 
Don Hanson III said:
Tai, just goes to show, there's more than one way to get-r-done.

I quenched a couple thousand blades made from sawblade steel years ago in olive oil and the feedback on them was great. I went with Park's 50 when searching for the most active hamon.

Guys, testing your results is where it's at!
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Man, I think that could stand repeating:

Guys, testing your results is where it's at!

And you test by cutting stuff and seeing what works and what fails. Acute edge angles vs obtuse. What causes edge roll and edge chipping. What is too hard and too soft. What happens when you don't achieve full martensite. What alloys like what edge angles in what applications. Hey, this other alloys breaks when really hard. Hey, this other stuff it great, but it rusts. Hey this new stuff that is supposed to be so wonderful sucks any way I look at it, what gives? This other stuff works good and doesn't rust much etc.

For better or for worse, we are a relatively "scientific" group here. And I thank our metallurgical bladesmiths for their efforts to disseminate useful knowledge.

It is important to realize that "knowledge" can be misunderstood or misapplied. For example, the heat treat information that comes with the D2 I order says something like "soak at temp 30 min per inch of section". So a 4 min soak for 1/8" is good right? No, that's way wrong. So just because I had information, didn't mean I had the entire picture. But testing showed me that.

It is easy to misunderstand some of the information given out here, despite efforts to make it understandable. Our metallurgical guru says it is simple and easy and correct to quench in a known quench oil. And he is probably right. But people read this as if it were written in stone and Mosses is walking around in his Jehovah sandals showing this to people and infer that other quenches won't work. They're misinterpreting the knowledge given to them. And the Guru is tired of discussing the point. It isn't an interesting subject.

I'm not as skeptical about science as Tai, but I know it is easy to misapply it and misunderstand it. And there is a natural human tendency to "see" what validates what we want to see. Which usually means, our heat treat we're doing is the end-all-be-all. And the scientific approach we take here is a good tool to shed light on what we think we see. I think that science is your friend, but folks who know something from experience aren't necessarily wrong just because it appears to contradict what we think we know. Testing tells you that.

Test your stuff.
 
In regards to selecting a commercial quenching oil, is one particularly better than another (assuming that they are both "fast" oils) when trying to achieve a hamon using 1095? (3/32 and 5/32 thickness)

I've been considering the McMaster Carr "11 second oil" due to price and availability.

Would this be a good choice if a hamon is desired?

Thanks!
 
EZ, the Master 11 sec. oil will work fine but Park's 50 will likely give more hamon activity.

Natham, that was a very good post...!
 
I've seen steel spec sheets that were full of typos... :D

... lots of information out there being passed off as science or fact that is just plain wrong... and lots of assumptions about assumptions, that lead to more false assumptions.

That's why you have to think for yourself, test your knives,... and get outside the box once in a while.
 
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Don Hanson III said:
EZ, the Master 11 sec. oil will work fine but Park's 50 will likely give more hamon activity.

Natham, that was a very good post...!
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Actually, Canola oil will likely work fine. Try it and test :)

Tai, I have run across a good bit of bad published info. Steel specs, HT, etc...
 
I don’t think science is necessarily friend or foe,… good or bad. It could be either. It’s what you do with it that counts.

Besides that,… where would science be without skeptics? Without asking questions? Without new discoveries?

How can science progress with out someone thinking outside the box and using their imagination?

Is engineered bottled water necessarily any better than filtered tap water?

The best knife maker is the one who asks the best questions. Answers are a dime a dozen…
 
Here's a hypothetical:
You quench a blade in canola and you get poor results. So,... you "assume" it was due to the quenching medium, when it could have due to a number of other variables...
 
Tai Goo said:
Here's a hypothetical:
You quench a blade in canola and you get poor results. So,... you "assume" it was due to the quenching medium, when it could have due to a number of other variables...
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Wouldn't thinking outside of the box here involve a scientific methodolgy to identify the variables, isolate, and then test them. Maybe it's not fair to call 'bad science', science at all.

I think a good basis for exploring and understanding the effects of geometry on heat treating would be very interesting.

Take care, Craig
 
Craig, Those are good points, but,... where do we draw the line between good science and bad science?... true science or pseudoscience, or not science at all?

The funny thing about science is,... no one really knows what it is... a little of this and a little of that. :)

I don't think of what I do as "science", although some folks tell me it is...
(... don't forget "math"!) :)

... I think of it more as art.
 
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