Carothers and Guns

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Busse black paper micarta grips.:thumbsup:;)
 
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Casinostocks said:
Question for handgun, particularly the 1911 aficionados:

I've never owned one but going to get one and I have narrowed it down to the Sig Sauer 1911 Select (naturally in .45 ACP only). Don't forget that I live in CA where the gun roster according to our State's DOJ is much much thinner than most, specially those of you who happen to be Red Staters (no politics please!!!). This is going to be for home and range only (no CCW here) and I want to keep my first purchase of a 1911 at just a tad over $1K (W/O taxes) and I also don't want to accessorize, so if you have personally used this handgun and have something against it or are for it, I'd be very grateful for your opinion.

Oh, I also like the fact that it has a rail and the closest to this is a shorter barrel 1911 made by Springfield, but I'd honestly prefer a Sig.
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For home defense, buy a Glock 9mm and shoot it a lot. A 1911 is a terrible choice unless you're using it for target shooting. Between tolerance stacking, too much rail/slide interface making it foul prone, magazine sensitivity... the list goes on; 1911's are better left to the target lanes. While a well built 1911 is far and away one of the most accurate and entertaining semi-auto pistols you can get, they just aren't good for defense. There is a reason why almost every law enforcement or military organization has ditched them (in fact many don't even allow them for personal carry in many cases). A Glock is a cheap gun.. if it gets lost, who cares. If it breaks or wears out (which it will not likely do), who cares. If it gets stolen, who cares, replace it. They are not the most ergonomic guns, but they are extremely simple and supremely reliable. Groggy in the middle of the night is not when you want to be fiddling for a safety, fixing a FTF, or trying to find the slide release on a 1911. Unless you have time, means, and money to train a lot with your chosen handgun, choosing the simplest most reliable means of delivery is the best bet. Training IS NOT shooting at paper on a lane, that is target practice.

On a second note... Sig 1911's are trash. They are too high priced for what you get; which are cast frames, a slew of MIM parts, crappy magazines, and a bunch of stupid special editions. The best 1911s for the money would be Springfield custom shop, colt, or dan wesson. They are also generally (with a few exceptions) the only 1911's you will get your money back or make money on when you eventually sell it. Despite what many on the internet or "kinda knows stuff about guns, but not really" crowd think, Kimbers are no longer a good 1911. (See previous Sig 1911 comments, which is taken over by the former CEO of Kimber; who brought over all his MIM parts and cheap production ideas.) Unfortunately, with the globalization of production and labor, many great companies of old no longer make the great products they used to, and rest on their name and reputation. Kimber and Sig are probably the worst offenders here.

When it comes to 45 vs 9mm, this is not even a question anymore. 9mm has more capacity, lower recoil, higher reliability, and more platform selection. It also suppresses better, if you're so inclined. The ballistic debate is settled. With modern advances in hollow point performance, the wound patterns of the 9mm and 45acp are nearly identical. The sectional density and increased velocity of 9mm equates to better penetration through barriers in many cases, when compared to 45acp. Don't get me wrong, I have a serious soft spot for 45acp. However, aside from its niche uses, it just doesn't compete in real world dynamic situations anymore.

KISS is the name of the game. I prefer not to share my personal background; but I can tell you that without a doubt that the uglier the gun and less worried about damaging it you are, the better a shot you will be with it.
 
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When it comes to home use/inhome protection, I'll go with a 1911a1 any day. Forget target practice. It's hard to kill a piece of paper, but a human, no problem. Anyone I hit with a .45acp at home is gonna go down fast. I am not here to argue the point, only to express what is not just my opinion, but my experience. And I would never argue the point with respect to non-equivalent velocities, muzzle energy comparisons, etc. But suggesting the 1911 is not a good weapon for defense is just not taking into account the personal geogaphy of the defensive zone. Mine is where I live. I will always have a 1911. A multitude of owners of 1911s are equipped at home with the weapon. To unilaterally suggest it is not a good weapon for defense is a stretch, because for anyone with training and experience, it is a great home protection weapon. Take it out on your hip as a carry, yeah, at that point I would question it's real usefullness for defense, unless in the hands of someone trained to shoot reflexively without pause, as needed.

And for that matter, my second weapon of choice is a Sig P238, albeit a .380 (but 1911 structure), just not the best caliber or loads for anything beyond home defense, but an easy weapon to use, unless in California (yeah, I live there), where the Sig is required to "raise the red flag" when chambered. Your comments may well be appropriate toward the masses who do little or no shooting but lots of us know what is appropriate for US. While I agree a .380 is not at all the caliber of choice for most, the P238 is handy in the right hands and a really well-made weapon. Many of us prefer ease of handling and enjoy the machinery that a well-made weapon indeed is. Whether or not it is good, or not, for defense is of no consequence for those who hit and drop what they must. But for Joe Blow, yeah, a pricey, light load auto that might actually cause your death rather than save it. But Glocks are just very useable pieces of shit.

Feel free to tear me apart, limb from limb, word for word, for my rebuttal:mad::D:D:D
 
I've written out a lengthy response twice now, and deleted it twice. It included a personal story about how I've come to my personal opinion on the matter, but never mind that.

My point is (would have been, at any rate) that the 1911 will do just fine in a home defense situation. More important is to keep your collective chit together in the moment, and HAVE IT HANDY, than any preference or broad statements about the caliber or platform. Get a gun and get familiar with it.
 
Yea, of course a possessing a 1911 for defense will ensure a person is well equipped. The problem is in the emotional cache that people attach to “machinery of a well made weapon.” A weapon is simply a tool. I’ve seen your impressive collection; and that alien predator looking knife, while no doubt a fine piece of work, pales in comparison. To a proper field knife for proper field work. If someone is well trained and experienced with a 1911, it may well be the best choice. I’ve seen many people go out and buy a 1911 because 45acp stops a threat in 1 hit, and because the 1911 is created by god himself.
 
As far as HD options, anecdotal info from folks who work in ERs:

"If you know anyone who's trying to pick a firearm for HD, tell them to use a long gun. We see gunshot victims from handguns all the time. Most of them survive. We rarely ever see victims of long guns. Those usually go straight to the morgue".

The goal isn't expressly to kill an intruder, but to stop the threat as expeditiously as possible. It just happens that the level of trauma that most effectively stops a person the fastest, also tends to have a significantly higher mortality rate.

There are of course, considerations with regards to being able to use it 1-handed (if you need to open doors, or grab little ones etc.).
 
""Yea, of course a possessing a 1911 for defense will ensure a person is well equipped. The problem is in the emotional cache that people attach to “machinery of a well made weapon.” A weapon is simply a tool. I’ve seen your impressive collection; and that alien predator looking knife, while no doubt a fine piece of work, pales in comparison. To a proper field knife for proper field work. If someone is well trained and experienced with a 1911, it may well be the best choice. I’ve seen many people go out and buy a 1911 because 45acp stops a threat in 1 hit, and because the 1911 is created by god himself.""



Ah, I see. Someone comes to the defense of a perfectly good weapon for many people (as in, call you out for your patently ego-driven rant, preaching the gospel according to "hammeredsole", the self-appointed mental health expert who goes on further about "the emotional cache that people attach to the machinery of a well made weapon", then begins in a rather subdued and low key manner, to throw shade on another's collection piece: "I’ve seen your impressive collection; and that alien predator looking knife, while no doubt a fine piece of work, pales in comparison. To a proper field knife for proper field work." Well, DUH! Rather like comparing apples and oranges, so how else can such comment be described except as a bit mean-spirited, a rather pathetic approach that attempts to draw a comparison between an art piece vs a damn good field knife. I will,though, give you credit for not writing a book on the subject this time.

Your turn at the alter......until Nathan himself trashes the both of us.
 
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So I went to the local gun store and while browsing the consignment stuff something really caught my eyes! I just luv beautiful long rifles with furniture type wood. This one looked like glossy walnut in really good physical condition. So I start fiddling around with it and write down some info:

Browning BAR with Safari and some other ornamental type etchings on the receiver chambered in .270 Winchester 22” barrel and a scope. Shoot, I may have to pick up hunting game again, although I prefer to hunt birds but obviously not with a gun like this, LOL. Anywho, it’s one of those from the 70’s or maybe 80’s? Parts made in Belgium and assembled in Portugal. Just wanna learn more before I drop about $1K but as a mooch shopper, it’s hard to get a Grand outta me if your last name is not Carothers :D
 
Casinostocks said:
So I went to the local gun store and while browsing the consignment stuff something really caught my eyes! I just luv beautiful long rifles with furniture type wood. This one looked like glossy walnut in really good physical condition. So I start fiddling around with it and write down some info:

Browning BAR with Safari and some other ornamental type etchings on the receiver chambered in .270 Winchester 22” barrel and a scope. Shoot, I may have to pick up hunting game again, although I prefer to hunt birds but obviously not with a gun like this, LOL. Anywho, it’s one of those from the 70’s or maybe 80’s? Parts made in Belgium and assembled in Portugal. Just wanna learn more before I drop about $1K but as a mooch shopper, it’s hard to get a Grand outta me if your last name is not Carothers :D
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Mat, you can buy a New (BAR Safari) in (Tennessee-Brand spanking New) for $1149! I Believe all the Bar Safari Models are still made in Belgium, and assembled in Portugal!

Browning (I Believe) is actually owned by FNH Fabrique Nationale Herstal in Belgium!

I owned one years ago, Very Beautiful and reliable Rifle:thumbsup:

https://www.browning.com/support/frequently-asked-questions/firearms-manufactured.html

https://chuckhawks.com/bar.htm

https://www.browning.com/products/firearms/rifles/bar.html
 
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