Carothers vs Fiddleback

This might surprise some people but I think FBF actually is a better choice in small knives for many applications.

When you look at what CPK is offering in a small blade, the EDC2, vs the wide selection of small patterns in FBF there is just a lot more to pick from.

I tried a bunch of FBF customs all to compare against the FK and the HDFK, no model compared as far as performance. I’m talking Bushcrafter, BC Sr, Bear Paw, and several others.

However at the time I had an EDC 1 which I compared to the Runt, Recluse and the Hiking Buddy etc and I kept those models while selling the EDC 1.

In a small pattern you aren’t likely going to be subjecting the steel to the abuse you would be in a larger pattern so the steel IMO is less important.

That all being said, I don’t have an EDC 2 to compare.

But my Runt is Osage, my Hiking Buddy is super dark African Blackwood and the Recluse is beautiful Rosewood. So they are really nice little knives and I believe they are keepers for now.

But in a more FK vs similar model FBF or larger knife, it’s CPK all day for me.

On fit and finish, I actually think CPK takes the cake here. Almost all of my FBF have little spots where “mistakes” that are just artifacts from the hand made process happened, plunge isn’t quite even, grind is a little off center or uneven height, the blade is a bit recurve, scratches in the wood, maybe a pin is a little proud or errant scratches off grain from sanding. Not a single one has come able to shave arm hair so pretty dull. Generally I need to sand, polish and sharpen a FBF upon receiving it to be happy with it.

My new CPKs have zero issues with F&F, and all are easily shaving sharp. Good to go out of the box.

Plus, an EDC is a good $100+ in many cases cheaper than a FBF custom. EDC will sell for what you put in, FBF will cost you likely $75-$100 in loss to sell.
 
On the flip side I have purchased many Fiddleback Forge knives, directly from Andy or a dealer, and aside from 1 random knife that slipped through with a squared spine and less than ideal cutting edge they have all come able to shave arm hair (ironically I did not even complain to Andy about it as I liked the 90 spine on it). For a fully handmade, high production ground-by-hand shop, overall fit and finish is exceptional from my experience. I am referring to a much larger sampling than 10 or so knives. And if you ever have a problem, Andy will take care of you.

If "optimized" 3v steel and some others in the patterns offered by CPK meet your needs, surely go for it. Excellent knives. In fact, I would take a HDFK over any of the similar FBF offerings, namely the Duke. Yet, the Duke/Woodsman and similar are great knives as well.

On the other end, Andy's current steel of choice (A2), heat treated in house, is no slouch in real world use on his smaller and larger knives and plenty capable in your average non-abusive use. Plenty of folks will Google you the metallurgical properties between the two main steels in question and you can determine the trade offs that suit your own needs.

Limited availability of CPK patterns and inflated secondary market values are definite drawbacks, but shouldn't stop you from trying for any knives of interest. Fiddlebacks are readily available nowadays largely from over production in my opinion, but this was not the case not that long ago where Friday sales sold out instantly. There is also a FBF pattern for just about any use you could think of with a lot of redundancy, and a wide range of steel thickness and handle configuration for any one knife model. You could get lost in it all, but like the CPK forum there is tons of reading about the various models in the FBF sub.

I do agree the current secondary market for FBF sucks IF you are selling. As a buyer, I find it hard to complain over 10, 20, 30% or more discounts from the maker's price... If you are not buying a primo wood handled knife in thin stock you will have a tough time reselling if the model doesn't work for you. If you have an idea of what you want, deals can be had if you don't want to support the maker directly. It can be a turn off for anyone wanting to try out different knives and configurations.

Both "brands" are made by good people who are vested in the product and their customers. Both make great knives. Bottom line.

tl/dr: Get you 1 or 3

David45 David45 it would be interesting your responses should you post this exact same thread over on Andy's forum
 
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Contrary to what some think, A2, O1 and other knife steels are just fine for their intended purpose. OCD is fine if that's your bag, but plain carbon steel has done the job for couple of thousand years. There is a group of blade smiths who specialize in 52100 and think that it out performs anything else. Of course it will rust if not maintained. So what? Who doesn't take care of a $1500 plus knife?

RE: A2 rusting. I bought an A2 blank from Bob Engnath in the mid '90s. It sat in my garage in the PRK and now sits in my garage here in AZ. It has a few stains from tree sap, but no rust. It has never been oiled or even wiped off since I put a crappy handle on it.
 
I don't any FBF knives but I had toyed with the idea of getting a few to sample. In fact I was very close to pulling the trigger on their Camp Knife, but then Nathan surprised us with the HDFK. I am more subjective and biased toward CPK than any other fixed blade maker on here. Asa matter of fact, some Blade Forums brutes may have even accused me of being a total fanboy!

With that said, if the OP's objective is purely food prep and some bushcraft stuff, Nathan does not currently offer a pattern dedicated for bushcraft and I'm hoping that his FK-2.0 will be more geared toward those kind of purposes. If you can not hold on till then, then try out a FBF pattern more dedicated for the purposes which you have described. Regarding the A2 steel, I was fortunate enough to land one of Nathan's Shivs in Latrobe A2 in mint-mint-mint condition and I will not give that one up for all the tea in China (luckily, I'm not too much into tea!). Nathan's treatment and craftsmanship with the Latrobe A2, has produced an armor plate busting blade! #sayzme
 
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Nothing wrong with being a fanboy. Especially when the knife in question is super high quality like CPK. I see fanboys who ooh and ah over knives that IMHO aren't worth 1/10 of the selling price.

IMHO, Nate's knives are worth more than what he sells them for. Shhhhhh. Don't tell him that I said that. He may raise his prices.
 
Casinostocks said:
I don't any FBF knives but I had toyed with the idea of getting a few to sample. In fact I was very close to pulling the trigger on their Camp Knife, but then Nathan surprised us with the HDFK. I am more subjective and biased toward CPK than any other fixed blade maker on here. Asa matter of fact, some Blade Forums brutes may have even accused me of being a total fanboy!

With that said, if the OP's objective is purely food prep and some bushcraft stuff, Nathan does not currently offer a pattern dedicated for bushcraft and I'm hoping that his FK-2.0 will be more geared toward those kind of purposes. If you can not hold on till then, then try out a FBF pattern more dedicated for the purposes which you have described. Regarding the A2 steel, I was fortunate enough to land one of Nathan's Shivs in Latrobe A2 in mint-mint-mint condition and I will not give that one up for all the tea in China (luckily, I'm not too much into tea!). Nathan's treatment and craftsmanship with the Latrobe A2, has produced an armor plate busting blade! #sayzme
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the FK 2.0 and the DEK1 will fill a void right now in the line up that represents potentially large production runs, since both are in the sweet spot wrt to size and utility
 
I love both.

CPK has extensive time, money, and materials in research and design. Everyone here knows or should know that Nathan is at the top of the field in terms of optimized metallurgy and precision.

Fiddleback Forge, by contrast, is producing a product that, to me, is best in class for feel in hand and also there are human hands at each step of making the blade.

Which is to say that CPK will and does appeal to the part of me that appreciates a sebenza.

Whereas Fiddleback speaks to the side of me that listens to the blues and swims up muddy rivers and admires women in low cut blouses (but also in nice summer dresses).
 
While I was a late on the draw for today’s EDC2 sale, CataD surprised me by offering me his pole position. His generosity was promptly followed by a pm from Jo. Details have already been exchanged. I’m very happy my lucky stars lined up so quickly. This was a great way to end a very tough work week!

Thanks again CataD!
 
David45 said:
While I was a late on the draw for today’s EDC2 sale, CataD surprised me by offering me his pole position. His generosity was promptly followed by a pm from Jo. Details have already been exchanged. I’m very happy my lucky stars lined up so quickly. This was a great way to end a very tough work week!

Thanks again CataD!
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You're very welcome, David45 David45 ! Hope you'll enjoy it for years to come!

JustinFournier said:
Awwwww C CataD is such a sweetheart.

<3<3!!
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LOL, JustinFournier JustinFournier , you made me blush hahaha!

Cheers guys,
C.
 
UffDa said:
Nothing wrong with being a fanboy. Especially when the knife in question is super high quality like CPK. I see fanboys who ooh and ah over knives that IMHO aren't worth 1/10 of the selling price.

IMHO, Nate's knives are worth more than what he sells them for. Shhhhhh. Don't tell him that I said that. He may raise his prices.
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Nathan must certainly know by now that he could easily increase his prices by a "modest" 20% on a whim, just by observing and following the trend of his knives' prices on the secondary market whereby because of limited supplies and the almost insatiable demand, his knives fetch between 40% to 100% markups on certain currently retired patterns. However as I had mentioned before, Nathan & Jo are not from the school pf economics which teaches, "let's just increase our prices willy-nilly in order to test as to how much the market tolerates these arbitrary increases".

I'll be quite honest when I say this: I rather pay 2 x as much for a retired CPK pattern which I had missed out on such as a Shiv than pay same ballpark sum for a Chris Reeve survival fixed blade. This is not meant as a disparaging remark to the Reeve knife, but even at 2 x the original price for a Nathan knife, I know that I'm getting heckuva lot more than the aforementioned which undoubtedly has its own followers and collectors, and rightfully so ;)
 
The EDC 2 is just too good. To me it’s the perfect knife. Fiddleback probably has something for everyone since there are so many variations and nuances but they feel so pretty, I’ve already used my EDC 2s for stuff I wouldn’t use my fiddlebacks for and yeah it’s probably a lot to do with the resale. I wanna be able to sell my fiddlebacks or give them as presentable gifts whereas I feel like the cpk knives don’t show any wear from stuff like grinding along the bottom of my front door etc. And I don’t wanna sell them anyway.
 
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I use both with vigor as noted previously.

I will also say that Andy @ Fiddleback has done business with Nathan and the production Fiddlebacks will give you a taste of both maker's work.

With respect to the OP, couching this as one vs. the other does disservice to their unique strengths and story of creation.

So let us say CPK compared and contrasted with Fiddleback Forge.
 
Panthera tigris said:
I use both with vigor as noted previously.

I will also say that Andy @ Fiddleback has done business with Nathan and the production Fiddlebacks will give you a taste of both maker's work.

With respect to the OP, couching this as one vs. the other does disservice to their unique strengths and story of creation.

So let us say CPK compared and contrasted with Fiddleback Forge.
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I had a Hiking Buddy. It's a really nice little knife. Did Nate make that?
 
I don't know all the details, but my understanding was that this team was involved with crafting and texturing the micarta on different models of the Fiddleback production knives. I wouldn't describe these as a CPK product or collaboration, but rather an output of Carother's machining business.

That said, they are pretty sweet.
 
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Casinostocks said:
Nathan must certainly know by now that he could easily increase his prices by a "modest" 20% on a whim, just by observing and following the trend of his knives' prices on the secondary market whereby because of limited supplies and the almost insatiable demand, his knives fetch between 40% to 100% markups on certain currently retired patterns. However as I had mentioned before, Nathan & Jo are not from the school pf economics which teaches, "let's just increase our prices willy-nilly in order to test as to how much the market tolerates these arbitrary increases".

I'll be quite honest when I say this: I rather pay 2 x as much for a retired CPK pattern which I had missed out on such as a Shiv than pay same ballpark sum for a Chris Reeve survival fixed blade. This is not meant as a disparaging remark to the Reeve knife, but even at 2 x the original price for a Nathan knife, I know that I'm getting heckuva lot more than the aforementioned which undoubtedly has its own followers and collectors, and rightfully so ;)
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a good number of people I've talked to in the industry think that CPK could raise the prices a fair amount and still be very competitive. I've sat in on conversations regarding pricing, and I've grudgingly come to really appreciate what Nathan has decided to do in keeping CPK's pricing relatively low, and consistent with the product. Greed is a pervasive issue amongst us humans. It behooves us, in all right ways, to consistently consider the value we put out there, and not get hopped up on fame and fortune. CPK is a modest operation, and although it will grow, that modesty is baked in because of the people involved. I feel very strongly that I lucked out big time in becoming attached to such sincere people who just want to do the best they can.
 
Somehow the issue of pricing always comes up.

I think Nathan understands that secondary market pricing doesn't reflect realistic primary market pricing as it's largely based on scarcity which wouldn't exist if his prices were at that point. I'm sure he remembers very well the days his knives sat unsold at prices they would instantly sell at now, and not a lot has changed in what he is doing on his end. It's a product of the current hype surrounding the brand and people jockeying for position and status in buying knives at prices way higher than they previously would have let them pass at because.... desire for social status is real. Additionally, if his prices were closer to current secondary market prices as compared to where they are now, there would come a higher expectation from buyers which would likely require his "field grade" promise to be altered.

I think a lot of us are here as Nathan likes to do things a specific way, and we like the way he does things. He doesn't even make a pattern he gets bored of past the point he wants to make it. We should let him do what he wants to do how he wants to do it and enjoy the fruits of CPK's collective labor.
 
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