Carothers vs Fiddleback

JustinFournier

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I’m with you on the long term demand prediction Tommy.

The reasons why I’ve believed other makers demand/hype would slow has generally been true, but none of that is present in CPK.

I also think Andy will continue to be in demand. He is really good at handles, and things like rare and beautiful wood varieties don’t go out of style. I only bought wood handles in FBF and was never disappointed in the quality of the wood.
 

David45

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There is a wealth of experience in the foregoing threads and I appreciate everyone’s perspective.

I buy different knives for different reasons. Mostly I buy knives because I appreciate a quality tool. I really appreciate anything that does not need electricity or fossil fuel to perform it’s function. I buy many knives for their perceived functionality but rarely use them. I’m sure I could sell them and not feel the loss other than I won’t get to fondle and enjoy a well made object just for itself and it’s intended purpose.

Some would say I have acquisition disorder. But I am discriminating when spending. I don’t spend beyond my means and can’t afford to indiscriminately support vendors/makers. But I do intend to reward myself for the hard work I do. The point of the thread was to decide which way to go at this time FBF or CPK.

I have the feeling I’ll own something from both makers before long. But the fates have already spoken. Two forum regulars have surprised me with their kindness and generosity. The result was last nights acquisition of an EDC2. It was an unexpected opportunity I couldn’t pass up. My disorder is satiated for the moment. I know I’ll enjoy it and intend to use in as many ways as my urban environment will allow. It will be carried just because I can. It will do kitchen duty despite having plenty of kitchen knives. It will be my kind of fun!

Now, will it take up left side belt space normally occupied by a spare magazine pouch? Should I do the unthinkable and leave my GLOCK at home so the Carothers beauty can ride my right hip? Tough decisions to be made..........

I hope Jo gets one in the mail pronto!
 

ndmiller

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Put the Carothers behind your mag pouch on left hip where you can grab it with your left hand. Glock stays on your right hip as god intended. You'll be the laughing stock if someone in Florida catches you not rocking your glock.
 

Bmurray

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There is a wealth of experience in the foregoing threads and I appreciate everyone’s perspective.

I buy different knives for different reasons. Mostly I buy knives because I appreciate a quality tool. I really appreciate anything that does not need electricity or fossil fuel to perform it’s function. I buy many knives for their perceived functionality but rarely use them. I’m sure I could sell them and not feel the loss other than I won’t get to fondle and enjoy a well made object just for itself and it’s intended purpose.

Some would say I have acquisition disorder. But I am discriminating when spending. I don’t spend beyond my means and can’t afford to indiscriminately support vendors/makers. But I do intend to reward myself for the hard work I do. The point of the thread was to decide which way to go at this time FBF or CPK.

I have the feeling I’ll own something from both makers before long. But the fates have already spoken. Two forum regulars have surprised me with their kindness and generosity. The result was last nights acquisition of an EDC2. It was an unexpected opportunity I couldn’t pass up. My disorder is satiated for the moment. I know I’ll enjoy it and intend to use in as many ways as my urban environment will allow. It will be carried just because I can. It will do kitchen duty despite having plenty of kitchen knives. It will be my kind of fun!

Now, will it take up left side belt space normally occupied by a spare magazine pouch? Should I do the unthinkable and leave my GLOCK at home so the Carothers beauty can ride my right hip? Tough decisions to be made..........

I hope Jo gets one in the mail pronto!
Never bring any brand of knife to a gun fight. The gun always wins.
 

Casinostocks

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Never say "always".

I watched that myth getting debunked by the Mythbusters Team, version 1.0 (the cast finally changed after like 10 years for their newest season which started in late 2017). If the knife is already drawn and the assailant is both fast and accurate while the handgun is still holstered, there's a chance that the knife attacker can have his knife already sunken into the gunman's neck or heart, before the gunman has had a chance to fire a shot, as long as the distance between the two is less than 15 feet or so. Of course the gun owner's skills, reflexes and training makes crucial differences in the outcome, but if we're talking about a willful knife attacker who can close a short distance very fast with a 6" or longer blade versus an unsuspecting handgun slinger, the outcome may surprise a lot of people!
 

David45

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Put the Carothers behind your mag pouch on left hip where you can grab it with your left hand. Glock stays on your right hip as god intended. You'll be the laughing stock if someone in Florida catches you not rocking your glock.

An excellent solution but it does get pretty crowded under a suit jacket!

Notwithstanding, I’ll have that EDC2 there the day after Jo gets it to me.
 
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JustinFournier

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I watched that myth getting debunked by the Mythbusters Team, version 1.0 (the cast finally changed after like 10 years for their newest season which started in late 2017). If the knife is already drawn and the assailant is both fast and accurate while the handgun is still holstered, there's a chance that the knife attacker can have his knife already sunken into the gunman's neck or heart, before the gunman has had a chance to fire a shot, as long as the distance between the two is less than 15 feet or so. Of course the gun owner's skills, reflexes and training makes crucial differences in the outcome, but if we're talking about a willful knife attacker who can close a short distance very fast with a 6" or longer blade versus an unsuspecting handgun slinger, the outcome may surprise a lot of people!

Fake news!! Rarely a thing as unsuspecting guy with a gun. And no reason to stay still when someone lunges at you, open that gap. Lots and lots of YouTube videos on how to defend against it.

Guy with knife has a shot, but it isn’t necessarily a win, knife guy is lucky if he comes out alive even if he buries the knife in guys chest. Guy with knife in his chest can still empty a mag in other guy.
 

Casinostocks

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Fake news!! Rarely a thing as unsuspecting guy with a gun. And no reason to stay still when someone lunges at you, open that gap. Lots and lots of YouTube videos on how to defend against it.

Guy with knife has a shot, but it isn’t necessarily a win, knife guy is lucky if he comes out alive even if he buries the knife in guys chest. Guy with knife in his chest can still empty a mag in other guy.

I'm not worried as I can both moonwalk and shoot at the same time!
 

ndmiller

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I think the point was don't bring a knife to a gunfight is just a cliche, not a hard fast rule, and may only apply if you know a gunfight is coming. But if you knew there would be a gunfight, who would actually choose to attend said gunfight? The cliche should be don't bring yourself or don't show up to a gunfight.

Fake news!! Rarely a thing as unsuspecting guy with a gun.

Nope. I see them everyday, most police, most security and bank officers, most people I see working at ranges armed, and most people I see at ranges shooting. All have guns and most are unsuspecting. It's their electronics today, taking their attention away from the world 10-15 seconds out of almost every minute to glance down and check their phone. Freaking Barney wearing horn shoes could sneak up on the majority of these folks and stab them in the back while they check their social media.

Regardless, unless you are highly skilled with a handgun, drawing and making shutdown immobilizing hits (brain, spinal cord) within a few seconds on a moving target, even an untrained attacker with a knife can hurt and possibly critically injure you very very easily. Without that level of training I would doubt you finish your draw stroke and are instantly fighting for your life in panic city. If you think otherwise, time to get more realistic handgun training. If you are that skilled, great, you shouldn't have been there in the first place.

And no reason to stay still when someone lunges at you, open that gap. Lots and lots of YouTube videos on how to defend against it.

Youtube videos to defend against it? I wouldn't let someone guard my empty beer cans in the recycling bin after watching a youtube video. Watch some knife attack videos where people with guns (sometime more than a few guns or people) were sliced up and/or killed because they didn't have the training and/or didn't follow it to just fire and kill the attacker as soon as the knife was presented.

Obviously anything said above reverse it just by having a loaded rifle or shotgun (00 Buck) in hand with mild training (like at home). Handguns are weak and inefficient weapons with their biggest strength concealment adding to reaction time.
 

UffDa

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Fake news!! Rarely a thing as unsuspecting guy with a gun. And no reason to stay still when someone lunges at you, open that gap. Lots and lots of YouTube videos on how to defend against it.

Guy with knife has a shot, but it isn’t necessarily a win, knife guy is lucky if he comes out alive even if he buries the knife in guys chest. Guy with knife in his chest can still empty a mag in other guy.

A guy with the nerves and tendons of his strong arm severed doesn't have much of a chance. If you are talking about an untrained person either with a gun or knife, the outcome may be different. If one or the other is trained, it's a whole different story. If both are highly trained, the advantage goes to the person with the gun IF he has the gun in his hand.
 

betzner

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Sorry, but you're all missing the key to staying alive. When it comes to two armed people encountering each other, the one who wins is he or she who reacts (begins shooting) without thought. Anyone who has ever had to shoot someone in defense of their own life knows what I mean. Of course, this is just IMHO, but having had to do it. It's a matter of not thinking, but acting.
 
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JustinFournier

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I think the point was don't bring a knife to a gunfight is just a cliche, not a hard fast rule, and may only apply if you know a gunfight is coming. But if you knew there would be a gunfight, who would actually choose to attend said gunfight? The cliche should be don't bring yourself or don't show up to a gunfight.



Nope. I see them everyday, most police, most security and bank officers, most people I see working at ranges armed, and most people I see at ranges shooting. All have guns and most are unsuspecting. It's their electronics today, taking their attention away from the world 10-15 seconds out of almost every minute to glance down and check their phone. Freaking Barney wearing horn shoes could sneak up on the majority of these folks and stab them in the back while they check their social media.

Regardless, unless you are highly skilled with a handgun, drawing and making shutdown immobilizing hits (brain, spinal cord) within a few seconds on a moving target, even an untrained attacker with a knife can hurt and possibly critically injure you very very easily. Without that level of training I would doubt you finish your draw stroke and are instantly fighting for your life in panic city. If you think otherwise, time to get more realistic handgun training. If you are that skilled, great, you shouldn't have been there in the first place.



Youtube videos to defend against it? I wouldn't let someone guard my empty beer cans in the recycling bin after watching a youtube video. Watch some knife attack videos where people with guns (sometime more than a few guns or people) were sliced up and/or killed because they didn't have the training and/or didn't follow it to just fire and kill the attacker as soon as the knife was presented.

Obviously anything said above reverse it just by having a loaded rifle or shotgun (00 Buck) in hand with mild training (like at home). Handguns are weak and inefficient weapons with their biggest strength concealment adding to reaction time.

So I’ll be more serious here. I apologize for playing with Mat and not doing it earlier. I don’t know what they teach in various places in the US as I wasn’t trained in the US military, and the closest I’ve come to that is having former Seal who was a trainer for 8 years do a few classes I attended. The rest of my training was done by Canadians in Canada or South Africans in the ME. They all do things differently.

The whole thing is a little hokey. I apologize for my dry sense of humour.

If someone is ape shit crazy waving a knife around, sure, someone paying attention will see him a long way out hopefully. Though I know what you mean, there are people who walk right into poles or water fountains as they are staring at their phones, or crash their car and die. Yes of course. If the person with the knife is part of a crowd and both are in a crowded place and that person with the knife has the intention of getting close and killing you, you will likely never see it coming. Lots of experts die at the hands of someone one they didn’t expect to be a threat.

Context is everything. If you’re at a checkpoint or something, you will be vigilant and dude with a knife will probably die quick without doing any damage.

Here is a fun video:

 

UffDa

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Maybe this topic should be moved to Practical Tactical where all the "ex-spurts" are. ;)
 

UffDa

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I just remembered that "The Best Defense" last Wednesday covered knife vs. gun. The thing you have to remember is that the techniques shown only work if you're bald.

TheBestDefense5.jpg
 

JustinFournier

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I just remembered that "The Best Defense" last Wednesday covered knife vs. gun. The thing you have to remember is that the techniques shown only work if you're bald.

TheBestDefense5.jpg

Mat already won with the shooting moonwalk.

Everyone knows that a well executed moonwalk would stop an attacker dead in his tracks, while a poorly executed one would convert the attack into a dance-off.
 
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