Carrying a knife . . . .

[rje58]

I never said or implied in any way that "it's entirely everyone else's fault if knife users are looked upon askew", but you never let that stop you from insinuating all manner of misleading crap about myself and others. Can we interest you in another hobby, on a different forum?

You want to stick your head in the sand and believe it's entirely everyone else's fault if knife users are looked upon askew, of course feel feel to do that and continue complaining about "them" here.

Below is your quote that I took exception to, emphasis mine:

I carry a knife. I find knives useful and I like them.

All the people I know who do NOT carry a knife are thoughtful, considerate, intelligent, civic-minded folks who have a million better things top worry about than what's in my pants.

I have encountered many people who DO carry knives...most of them through BF. And plenty of them were/are overcompensating whackos with fetishized tactical "killing junkie terrorists" bents. By far not the majority, but we all have met them.

This appears to be another example of how some people choose to instigate, agitate and generally make nuisances of themselves, whilst trying to give the (in my mind, false) appearance of being supportive (if somewhat condescending and overly self-important, highly superior) members of this forum.

 

[Pilsner]

As is often the case, some of the things written here about London and Londoners are rather lacking in nuance, which is to be expected, of course. Nobody is trying to ban knives from London, that simply is a fiction. We cook everyday, just like in other places, and we have a full array of kitchen knives. Knife laws, in terms of carry, are no different from anywhere else in the UK, which have not changed for years.

The police are more twitchy, and I understand why: they aren’t unreasonable. The problem we face as a city and in our local communities is teenagers carrying blades and stabbing each other. These are not smart, privileged kids. London has pockets of grinding poverty and deprivation*, and even smart, wealthy teenagers aren’t usually the best at thinking of consequences before they act.

The focus is on prevention, and appealing to these kids to hand in their blades has limited but measurable success. A lot of them carry because they are frightened in the first place and therein lies the deeper problem. In Glasgow, police have had astounding success in tackling this very issue by running education and support programs that start at A&E [ER], when the kid gets stabbed for the first time, which often would lead to the victim then carrying a knife themselves - early intervention is good!

Anyway, back to the regular program, but it’s worth hearing about the real picture from time to time. I’m a Londoner and so is my wife, and we both own and use knives every single day. No worries.

*I could walk you down my street to see some.

 

[pinnah]

Violent criminals are all in favor of weapons bans/gun control.
It makes their chosen career safer.

Their victims cannot defend themselves.

I'm fairly confident that most victims of violent crime are not killed or attacked by "criminals" per se. Instead, they are attacked by their husbands, family members, friends, work colleagues, neighbors, bloke at the bar, and the like. Which is to say, that most violent crimes are crimes of passion committed with weapons that a person has "on hand" or has easy access to (e.g. the chef knife in the kitchen butcher block).

To your point about career criminals, gang members and terrorists... people who make plans on committing violent crimes as opposed to just crimes of passion... my sense is that what they prefer is a tremendous disparity in what weapons they have vs what weapons their victims have (in the same way that the US is in favor of bans on nuclear weapons). In Massachusetts, the vast majority of handguns used in crimes come into the state illegally through Maine and New Hampshire, which have much laxer gun laws. The same is true in Chicago, Washington DC and many other cities and states that are near states with lax laws. Perhaps we should close the borders between states to control the flow on contraband weapons?

Bans and gun control do nothing to make the victims safer nor to lower the chances of them being killed.

Would you advocate making it legal for high school boys to purchase weaponized nerve agents? Or Claymore mines?

While this sounds like an absurd example, it underscores that nobody other than comic book villains seriously advocates for a complete lifting of all bans on all weapons. We all support the drawing of a line in the sand somewhere and we do so because we all understand that we as a society are safer with some weapons out of circulation in the general public.

Exactly where that line gets drawn is, or should be, a matter of democracy should we choose to do that sort of hard work.

 

[marcinek]

This appears to be another example of how some people choose to instigate, agitate and generally make nuisances of themselves, whilst trying to give the (in my mind, false) appearance of being supportive (if somewhat condescending and overly self-important, highly superior) members of this forum.

I'm sorry you cannot cope with an opinion differing from yours without resulting to personal insults. That really limits the potential for having a discussion about knives not members with you....which we have been told repeatedly is what we should be doing.

I stand by my statement. I have yet to know someone who does not carry a knife who is not a thoughtful, considerate, intelligent, civic-minded person who have a million better things to worry about than what's in my pants.

If you find that so unbelievable, I feel you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Again, you are welcome to feel its you vs. "them", and my opinions and those of the folks who don't carry knives are just there to upset you and be unsupportive, but that hardly does anything to address the issue that the OP posed.

And it's a forum. Just like in the real world not everyone is going to support your point of view.

 

[pinnah]

The focus is on prevention, and appealing to these kids to hand in their blades has limited but measurable success. A lot of them carry because they are frightened in the first place and therein lies the deeper problem.

There are several "deeper problems" here, I think.

Bans are a form of policing and policing in and of itself is (almost) never a solution to the underlying problems that drive violence. Many social problems that end in violence are better handled by addressing root causes with interventions other than police and generally for less money. See "The End of Policing".

Another "deeper problem" with such bans is how they get subverted for the purpose of targeted suppression of minorities. For all the pro-gun posturing of the US Republican Party, the current administration (under Jeff Session) has aggressively sought Federal prosecutions on gun law violations which have disproportionally affected minorities who often carry out of fear just as you describe. NYC's much discussed bans on "gravity knives" is similar.

 

[kickert]

I have recently moved back to the states after spending the last 7 years in rural Africa. No one would raise an eyebrow to see a person carrying a 18" bush knife around in public because knives are tools. Now that I am back it takes some getting used to because when I pull out a 2.75" folder to open a box, people give me funny looks. I live in a pretty outdoorsy area of the country so in many settings the use of a knife is understood, but as a day-to-day useful tool, it still seems odd to many people -- and that seems odd to me.

 

[Pilsner]

There are several "deeper problems" here, I think.

Bans are a form of policing and policing in and of itself is (almost) never a solution to the underlying problems that drive violence. Many social problems that end in violence are better handled by addressing root causes with interventions other than police and generally for less money. See "The End of Policing".

Another "deeper problem" with such bans is how they get subverted for the purpose of targeted suppression of minorities. For all the pro-gun posturing of the US Republican Party, the current administration (under Jeff Session) has aggressively sought Federal prosecutions on gun law violations which have disproportionally affected minorities who often carry out of fear just as you describe. NYC's much discussed bans on "gravity knives" is similar.

That is certainly a point of view with which I am familiar. But the fact is that London does not have different laws or bans than the rest of the UK concerning knives. It does however have an area known ‘the square mile’, about half an hour’s walk from my front door; this does, confusingly, have slightly different rules pertaining to the world of finance. One interesting thing I learn from interacting with the good folk here is that our domestic current affairs are sometimes misunderstood and therefore misrepresented by foreign media. I’m sure our journalists do the same as well.

I haven’t really addressed the philosophical point you touched upon, and like many questions of political philosophy it is not a simple problem with quick solutions. I am a firm advocate not only of the social contract, but also of the importance of recognising when it needs refinement and not being frightened of change!

 

[rje58]

There's no need to resort to personal insults, which is not what I've done. I've simply stated my honest opinion about your actions and behavior, as you are doing when you say that "you cannot cope with an opinion differing from yours without resulting to personal insults." It's not just your opinions that I find offensive - it's more often your attitude and presentation.

I'm sorry you cannot cope with an opinion differing from yours without resulting to personal insults. That really limits the potential for having a discussion about knives not members with you....which we have been told repeatedly is what we should be doing.

Thank you! Now we are getting somewhere! Please let me try to clarify what you are saying, and you may begin to understand why I and many others find it so off-putting.

You clearly state that "I have yet to know someone who does not carry a knife who is not a thoughtful, considerate, intelligent, civic-minded person". Yet, in another post, you clearly state "I have encountered many people who DO carry knives...most of them through BF. And plenty of them were/are overcompensating whackos with fetishized tactical "killing junkie terrorists" bents." (Emphasis mine, not yours)

This seems to me to be analogous to going on a ecological website and saying that everyone you have known that wasn't "an environmentalist" was thoughtful, considerate, intelligent and civic-minded, but that plenty of environmentalists were overcompensating whackos with festishized nature-worshipping, tree-hugging bents who were trying to put everyone in the logging and construction industries out of business and damage the economy - but by far not the majority.

I wonder how that would be received...?

Just saying....

I apologize if you thought I was insulting you, that is never my intent. Happy New Year 2019 to you and all my fellow knife knuts.

 

[22-rimfire]

.... The same is true in Chicago, Washington DC and many other cities and states that are near states with lax laws. Perhaps we should close the borders between states to control the flow on contraband weapons?

I take the opposite perspective. There wouldn't be a problem if the places you mentioned had reasonable laws consistent with nearby states. The term "lax" is what demonstrates your attitude on the subject. But I have known your attitude on the subject for years.

My state used to have a 3.5" blade length limit. That changed a couple years ago and I have not heard if there has been a rash of stabbings and murders because of blade length. It however is the easiest way for a government of legislate what is "legal" versus illegal rather than having to define switchblade, gravity knife and so forth.

 

[jackknife]

In Massachusetts, the vast majority of handguns used in crimes come into the state illegally through Maine and New Hampshire, which have much laxer gun laws. The same is true in Chicago, Washington DC and many other cities and states that are near states with lax laws. Perhaps we should close the borders between states to control the flow on contraband weapons?
.

Oh for Gods sake, more of the brainless blaming of an inanimate piece of matter for the crimes! How about drinking? The prohibition went over well too, right?

Let me tell you a little something pal. I grew mostly in and around Washington D.C and the Maryland suburbs. Like D.C., Maryland was a very anti state. Anti gun and very strict knife laws. Yet crime was high. In D.C. and the immediate suburbs, shootings and knifings were common place. Yes, some guns came in from Virginia and North Carolina. Yet how come, per capita, the shootings in D.C. were way higher than in Virginia.

I ultimately abandoned ship of the home state and moved to Texas as a political refugee. Now the town I liven is a bit a suburb of Austin, guns are all around, and seeing one carried openly on the hip is NOT an unusual thing. Yet, crime is very very low, shootings are rare compared to my old stomping grounds of D.C. and people have a genuinely better and more polite attitude.

If y have a problem of guns in Massachusetts from Maine and New Hampshire, maybe you'd be better off with adjusting your overly restrictive laws to be more in line with your neighbors? I know Boston. I spent a year up there and I know it can be a rough town if you wander a few blocks the wrong direction. Maybe the citizens of Massachusetts need to be entrusted with the same rights of ownership the neighboring states have. As far as D.C. goes, the criminals love having the general populace to be known to be unarmed. It makes the criminals life much much easier. Way less chance of a work related injury because some citizen thought he had the right to defend himself.

Knives, guns, no matter, the state has zero business telling us what we can carry and can't. I moved across the country to be able to practice my 2d amendment rights to the fullest, and I think knife owners need to have that same right. If a citizen wants to have a Bowie knife on his hip, it's his right, if he doesn't abuse it. If he does abuse it, then HE looses that right as an individual, not the rest of the society as a whole because of the actions of one individual.

Weapons laws and bans are the totally brainless action of not having to bother to think and hold individuals responsible for their own behavior. Like the zero tolerance rules of schools. I am against any bans of any kind, but make the individual answer for his breach of the social contract. Not the rest of the people who did nothing wrong. Bans are the sheep reacting to the wolf.

 

[pinnah]

I take the opposite perspective. There wouldn't be a problem if the places you mentioned had reasonable laws consistent with nearby states. The term "lax" is what demonstrates your attitude on the subject. But I have known your attitude on the subject for years.

Several years ago, my great aunt passed away and we held the service for her in the church my great grandparents helped to build in the little village in very rural Vermont. It was a nice service and I helped carry the casket to the hearse. As we were breaking up and getting ready to head up the cemetery for the interment, my cousin asked me if I wanted to ride with him. I climbed into his unlocked pick up to find his 30-30 lever gun muzzle down in the passenger compartment. It was October, so a few weeks early but whatever. He muttered about needing to check and he reached over and opened the lever to toss out the chambered round.

A few weeks later, I came back up and purchased 32 SP rounds at teh general store without needing to show ID and stayed at my cousins with 10 or so rifles laying around the house unlocked in various bedroom gun racks and leaning in mud room corners.

I recount this to assure you I'm 100% comfortable with lax gun laws. It's what I grew up with.

But... democracy being what it is, I also support the people of Massachusetts or Illinois or Washington DC or London or wherever to democratically control the weapons in general circulation. I'm sitting in a bar right now near a guy I consider a friend - enough to have gone shooting with and will again - and honestly, he's not somebody who should have an LTC nor access to high-capacity semi-automatic weapons.

I don't have any good solutions to offer here.

FWIW, I'm regularly shooting in the 250s on our 22 rifle gallery team with iron sights. Santa brought me a scope, and hopefully I break 270 by this time next year.

 

[pinnah]

Oh for Gods sake, more of the brainless blaming of an inanimate piece of matter for the crimes!
<mercy snippage..>
Bans are the sheep reacting to the wolf.

Would you advocate making it legal for Walmart to sell weaponized nerve agents to teenagers?

We all agree to the merits of weapons bans. We simply disagree on where to draw the line.

 

[marcinek]

There's no need to resort to personal insults, which is not what I've done. I've simply stated my honest opinion about your actions and behavior, as you are doing when you say that "you cannot cope with an opinion differing from yours without resulting to personal insults." It's not just your opinions that I find offensive - it's more often your attitude and presentation.

This seems to me to be analogous to going on a ecological website and saying that everyone you have known that wasn't "an environmentalist" was thoughtful, considerate, intelligent and civic-minded, but that plenty of environmentalists were overcompensating whackos with festishized nature-worshipping, tree-hugging bents who were trying to put everyone in the logging and construction industries out of business and damage the economy - but by far not the majority.

I wonder how that would be received...?

Just saying....

You made the Barney Fife cracks, which is an insult, and have been discussing my "attitude and presentation" instead of knives.

As for the reception of my statements? I don't care...I'm a grown man....I carry knives!

Sorry if I have disturbed your "safe space."

 

[22-rimfire]

Shooting 22 rifles is one heck of a lot of fun and challenging at generally low cost. Love it! I am not comfortable with cities creating their own gun laws or knife laws for that matter. While I have little use for an AR, I support the right to own and shoot them. But I do not support folks that demonstrate carrying their AR's on their shoulders because it is legal in most cases. I think your friend should have the right to an AR if he wants one. I don't support having it with him in a bar in general. You get a lot of people around of varying criminality and it's too easy to disarm someone with a rifle in such a place and then use it for what I would consider evil purposes.

The line drawing is a tough thing. I think that few people dispute the line not allowing nerve agents, explosive rounds, or weapons of mass destruction within the civilian population.

 

[Boru13]

Enough of the insults and politics, we're done here.