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My same feeling.
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Case....hate?
- Thread starter JTR357
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My same feeling.
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- Dec 15, 2003
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I enjoy my Case knives but I'm not a fan boy. All of my post '70s Cases have fit and finish issues like the photo above, or worse. I've picked through many examples at stores and have never found one that doesn't have some issue --mismatched scales, significant blade rub, weak springs, lop-sided hafting like the example above, and even ill-fitting scales. I just don't undestand those of you who claim fit and finish on Case knives is great. Fit and finish is top notch on Chris Reaves, RAT, and Victorinox, but not Case.
I also find their marketing of new and different scale colors a little like Beanie Babies.
At the same time, despite their problems, they are functional knives. My yellow handle medium stockman with CV blades is one of my favorite knives.
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You mean there are actually people out there who DON'T LIKE Case knives? It's pure communism, I say.
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I feel strongly both ways. 
The old Tested and XX knives have always exemplified 'Case' for me. When I handle their current work, it often seems strangely smoothed-over, a bit insubstantial and almost toy-like compared to the solid, no-nonsense working knives of old, but that could easily be an emotional, rather than objective, reaction.
I'm pleased as punch that the venerable old company is still going strong and has a devoted following. I plan on boarding the CV Swayback bandwagon real soon, but they just don't make em like they used to.
The old Tested and XX knives have always exemplified 'Case' for me. When I handle their current work, it often seems strangely smoothed-over, a bit insubstantial and almost toy-like compared to the solid, no-nonsense working knives of old, but that could easily be an emotional, rather than objective, reaction.
I'm pleased as punch that the venerable old company is still going strong and has a devoted following. I plan on boarding the CV Swayback bandwagon real soon, but they just don't make em like they used to.
Will Power
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Look at those scales:thumbup::thumbup:
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That is really sweet Rick... Gotta love the old ones
Kris, I know things happen, but I have never not had someone from Case return e-mails. A couple years back I sent an old trapper in for new blades, Shirley even took the time to call and make sure I wanted to spend the money because it was not covered under warranty.
As far as people here talking down to others who carry non traditional knives, I don't recall ever seeing anyone do that. However this is the traditional sub forum so there isn't much enthusiasm for talking about other styles of knives.
I own a couple knives that are not traditional as I'm sure others here do as well, but we don't talk about them... At least not here
Kris, I know things happen, but I have never not had someone from Case return e-mails. A couple years back I sent an old trapper in for new blades, Shirley even took the time to call and make sure I wanted to spend the money because it was not covered under warranty.
As far as people here talking down to others who carry non traditional knives, I don't recall ever seeing anyone do that. However this is the traditional sub forum so there isn't much enthusiasm for talking about other styles of knives.
I own a couple knives that are not traditional as I'm sure others here do as well, but we don't talk about them... At least not here
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I own lots of Case knives, and will probably buy more, but I have moved Case knives into my "only buy first hand in person" list. Due to the number of loose blades and poor fit I've run into enough, I won't buy them online anymore. (Queen is on the same list now)
They can and do make some great knives, but their QC seems to be slipping.
They can and do make some great knives, but their QC seems to be slipping.
I feel strongly both ways.
The old Tested and XX knives have always exemplified 'Case' for me. When I handle their current work, it often seems strangely smoothed-over, a bit insubstantial and almost toy-like compared to the solid, no-nonsense working knives of old, but that could easily be an emotional, rather than objective, reaction.
I'm pleased as punch that the venerable old company is still going strong and has a devoted following. I plan on boarding the CV Swayback bandwagon real soon, but they just don't make em like they used to.
And that is what made Case great. Knives like that...
Buzzbait
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I'm not a big Case fan. I bought some a few years back, and the quality was pretty bad. I have a lot of slipjoints, from a lot of different manufacturers, and those Case knives rank at the bottom of the heap. Nice bone scales, but lousy fit and finish. They were a train wreck. Very sloppy workmanship.
I got brave, and tried Case out again a couple weeks ago. I bought a BSA Jr. Scout. The design of the knife is simply outstanding. I mean OUTSTANDING!!!! The attention to detail on the design is incredible. I have a lot of scout pattern knives, but the Jr. Scout is on a whole different level in terms of design. The way that all of the tools relate to the handle is a small piece of heaven.
The downside of the experience is that the main blade rubs against the bottle cap lifter, thus scratching the tip of the main blade. The cap lifter and awl also have a tiny bit more play than I'd prefer. Also, the color of the scales isn't even in the ballpark of the online pictures from the Case website. I thought I was getting caramel bone, but half of the bone is colored white. The shaping of the bone to the steel liners is not quite right in spots, and half of the shield is covered with epoxy. The blade was badly sharpened, and the knife was filled with grit and grime.
The Jr. Scout may sound terrible, but it's not. It's about the same quality as I've gotten from Queen and many German brands in the past. The same quality as Camillus and Schrade a few years back. It's basic production slipjoint quality. You take your chances if you buy online. You may get a great one. You may get a lousy one. But chances are that you'll get one like mine. Acceptable, but nothing earth shattering.
Let's face it. Most production slipjoints do not offer exceptional quality control, except for maybe Victorinox. I don't know why all of the major brands can't even come close to Victorinox fit and finish, but it's just the way it is. I will mention that I haven't tried any of the various Tidioute brands or Canal Street, but I'd be surprised if they possessed Victorinox quality either.
I'm actually liking Case more since the purchase of the Jr. Scout. Case has reached back and achieved the quality level of most of the other major slipjoint brands. That's nothing to write home about, but it is a step in the right direction.
I got brave, and tried Case out again a couple weeks ago. I bought a BSA Jr. Scout. The design of the knife is simply outstanding. I mean OUTSTANDING!!!! The attention to detail on the design is incredible. I have a lot of scout pattern knives, but the Jr. Scout is on a whole different level in terms of design. The way that all of the tools relate to the handle is a small piece of heaven.
The downside of the experience is that the main blade rubs against the bottle cap lifter, thus scratching the tip of the main blade. The cap lifter and awl also have a tiny bit more play than I'd prefer. Also, the color of the scales isn't even in the ballpark of the online pictures from the Case website. I thought I was getting caramel bone, but half of the bone is colored white. The shaping of the bone to the steel liners is not quite right in spots, and half of the shield is covered with epoxy. The blade was badly sharpened, and the knife was filled with grit and grime.
The Jr. Scout may sound terrible, but it's not. It's about the same quality as I've gotten from Queen and many German brands in the past. The same quality as Camillus and Schrade a few years back. It's basic production slipjoint quality. You take your chances if you buy online. You may get a great one. You may get a lousy one. But chances are that you'll get one like mine. Acceptable, but nothing earth shattering.
Let's face it. Most production slipjoints do not offer exceptional quality control, except for maybe Victorinox. I don't know why all of the major brands can't even come close to Victorinox fit and finish, but it's just the way it is. I will mention that I haven't tried any of the various Tidioute brands or Canal Street, but I'd be surprised if they possessed Victorinox quality either.
I'm actually liking Case more since the purchase of the Jr. Scout. Case has reached back and achieved the quality level of most of the other major slipjoint brands. That's nothing to write home about, but it is a step in the right direction.
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Wow Rick! 
That 6214 1/2 (or is that a 6216 1/2 ?) is gorgeous!
You basically have the same opinion of the new vs the vintage Case knives. The former one, while very nice, seem toyish as you mentioned compared to the solid feel of the old models even in the same pattern. For example, besides the half-stops that I mentioned, the bolsters on the new ones seem thinner than the old ones.
I really hope Case can figure that old formula for reproducing that "je ne sais quoi" characteristic that made those old Case knives so distinctive.
That 6214 1/2 (or is that a 6216 1/2 ?) is gorgeous!You basically have the same opinion of the new vs the vintage Case knives. The former one, while very nice, seem toyish as you mentioned compared to the solid feel of the old models even in the same pattern. For example, besides the half-stops that I mentioned, the bolsters on the new ones seem thinner than the old ones.
I really hope Case can figure that old formula for reproducing that "je ne sais quoi" characteristic that made those old Case knives so distinctive.
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I have held others folks Case knives and found them excellent. I suggest to new knife searcher to go to a local establishment and handle some Case's, and if they happen to have other knives also see what they feel like.
I am exclusive because I chose to be very early in life. Because I liked what I had encountered AND everyone else carried Case, Schrade or Old Timers. Everyone keep doing your own thing because I like to see and hear about your knives. I believe that is what all of this is about. Believe me, I can complain about my brand, what I am waiting for is the perfect knife one of you guys find. Some of your customs are near perfect. I also have a soft spot for knives older than current movie stars........
I support American made knives and compaines first. Case is one of those few.
300Bucks
I am exclusive because I chose to be very early in life. Because I liked what I had encountered AND everyone else carried Case, Schrade or Old Timers. Everyone keep doing your own thing because I like to see and hear about your knives. I believe that is what all of this is about. Believe me, I can complain about my brand, what I am waiting for is the perfect knife one of you guys find. Some of your customs are near perfect. I also have a soft spot for knives older than current movie stars........
I support American made knives and compaines first. Case is one of those few.
300Bucks
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I've always been a Case fan, but never liked all the Case knives. Love most of the pre 1980 stuff in carbon/CV.
I sold a lot of slip joints in the 80s', 1000s and Case was at a low point but still very, very popular in the Southeast. The yellow tapper in CV was the best seller by far.
Like said, since the late 90s' Case has improved a bunch and is doing a great job. I really like seeing some of the old patterns return and more models in CV lately :thumbup: Still best if you can pick one out in person, instead of ordering on line.
I sold a lot of slip joints in the 80s', 1000s and Case was at a low point but still very, very popular in the Southeast. The yellow tapper in CV was the best seller by far.
Like said, since the late 90s' Case has improved a bunch and is doing a great job. I really like seeing some of the old patterns return and more models in CV lately :thumbup: Still best if you can pick one out in person, instead of ordering on line.
sgbeskin
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You're right Don, Case has always been popular here in south Mississippi. Even when they are terrible, people still swore by them. I was talking to my daddy the other day, he has only carried Case knives his whole life and he is nearing seventy years old, he made the comment that the newer Case knives I had given him were in his words "shaped like a damn box." He's right the old Case knives I have are all sturdier and the handle edges are more round. I also won't buy a Case without looking at it first.
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Yeah, sgbeskin, I was in Tallhassee Florida back then and carbon steel slipjoints were king, with Case at the top. We sold an awful lot of German made slips also.
The above picture really show the diff the old knives have over the newer. Notice how the scales and bolsters are rounded down almost to the liners. This gives a much better feel to a pocket knife. Handles seemed thinner, springs were stronger and the blades were not tumble finished, which rounds off all edges and corners. Very nice knife, Rick!
The above picture really show the diff the old knives have over the newer. Notice how the scales and bolsters are rounded down almost to the liners. This gives a much better feel to a pocket knife. Handles seemed thinner, springs were stronger and the blades were not tumble finished, which rounds off all edges and corners. Very nice knife, Rick!
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Oh...
Hi,
Comparing steels and knife design performance is my version of knife collecting. (Kind of geeky, but it works for me.)
There is still some question as to the hardness of Case Tru-Sharp. Taking a Rockwell hardness requires flat parallel surfaces. On most traditional knives, that means the base. But the bases of most traditional pocket knife blades have to be annealed so that the blades can be bent to fit into the knife. While some designs have straight blades and would not actually require annealing, it is unclear to me as of yet whether Case anneals them. I hae my eye on a couple of knives that should solve the puzzle, but I've not had a chance to buy them, so I will pass on the hardness question just yet.
However, I do a lot of edge retention testing using manila rope and blades rebevelled so that they all have the same edge angle. I found the edge retention of Case Tru-Sharp to be what I would normally expect from 420HC hardened to the mid 50s. I find that my Buck 420HC blade , which is hardened to 59HRC holds an edge better. AUS8 at 59HRC is better than the Buck. 440C at 58HRC is a further step above the AUS8.
To get back to the original question: For light daily use, which is all a lot of us have, Tru-sharp works great. Takes a great edge. Resharpens easily. But there's a lot of folks that prefer steels with better edge retention than they get with Case Tru-Sharp. They aren't necessarily snobs. They just need steel with better edge retention because of their daily cutting needs.
Frank
I wonder if the matter of why some people hate Case even touches on the hardness of the steel?
There are some people who do not forgive or forget, and there was a period where Case QA did slip a bit. But I think every company has a up and down period in ther history. But some of these people are the type that may have seen a poor example of a Case, so they formed the attitude etched in stone, that "they make a bad knife and I'll never buy one of them." Period.
I've seen people like this in every area of life. To use an example, Smith and Wesson had a bad period a couple decades ago. As did Harley-Davidson under the old AMF company. But then they, like Smith and Wesson, got out from under, and had a rebirth of good production under thier own control. I have a S&W revolver I bought three years ago, and it's one of the best shooting handguns I've ever had. But some shooters are still clinging to the old, "Smith and Wesson's are junk since the Bangor Punta days". It's like a tumor in thier brain, and it's not going to change.
Another thing may be a self inflicted shot in the foot with the collector of the month thing. Like the commemoratives Winchester was coming out with in the late 70's, they had a gun for everything. Case has the Johnny Cash knife, the John Deer knife, the whatever knife, and this can lead to a perception that Case is making a cutlery version of the Boyds Bears or Beenie Babys like one poster mentioned. The over doing of collector knives can "Cheapen" a companies reputation of quality. I know they make money off them, and I have no doubt Case did a market survey on the idea, but as much as it may draw a new customer base, I wonder if it may also loose them some customer base.
An offshoot of the collector thing is the steel snobbery. A lot of old timers look down on stainless steel. With the carved in stone mentality of some people, they've never got beyond the old stainless of the 1940's and 50's, where it really did have some edge holding problems when compared with a good carbon steel. One of the most high ranking bladesmiths I ever knew, still held to the idea that stainless steel was bad stuff, suited only for butter knives and other table wear. He preached it to his last days on this earth, he was so sure of the truth as he knew it. And maybe when compared to his own knives forged out of W2, 5160, and some O1 here and there, it may have been. But life is not black and white, but made up of many shades of grey. Some people are just stuck in time with thier own misconceptions. Just because A is better than B, does not mean B is bad. Just because a Porshe is faster than a Toyota, does not mean the Toyota is a bad car for commuting to work or other real world driving around.
I think the people that will make a statement that they hate Case, and will never buy one of thier knives, are just showing an attitude based on the lack of any knowledge, combined with steel snobbery. We are living in an age of exess in everything, and if it's not the latest hot lick steel, specially blended for jet turbine fan blades or other such hype, they look down thier nose at it. I mean, if it's not the lastest wonder of metalurgy that can hack open a car door or some other Jack Baurish feat, what good is it? Just as there are people who think if a knife does not have instant one hand opening, and a lock so supposedly solid it can jack up an Abrahms fighting vehicle, it can't be a real knife. I've had people look at my sodbuster, or a peaanut, and express wonder that I would use an old worthless knife that's dangerous because it has no lock. Another form of knife snobbery.
People just develope attitudes out of ignorance. I know one older man who still won't buy any Japanese car or truck because of Pearl Harbor. That's okay by me, it leaves the good stuff for those who really appreatiate it. If there's a nitch I think Case is overlooking, it's the one filled by the closing of Schrade and the Old Timer line. I wonder if Case should try making some Old timer type of pocket knives; a little rough, saw cut delrin scales, carbon blades, prices a working man could afford to use on a job site. A Case version of the middleman jack, or the 34OT.
But then, who knows? If I had the answers, I'd be rich, instead of a retired machinist counting pennies.
There are some people who do not forgive or forget, and there was a period where Case QA did slip a bit. But I think every company has a up and down period in ther history. But some of these people are the type that may have seen a poor example of a Case, so they formed the attitude etched in stone, that "they make a bad knife and I'll never buy one of them." Period.
I've seen people like this in every area of life. To use an example, Smith and Wesson had a bad period a couple decades ago. As did Harley-Davidson under the old AMF company. But then they, like Smith and Wesson, got out from under, and had a rebirth of good production under thier own control. I have a S&W revolver I bought three years ago, and it's one of the best shooting handguns I've ever had. But some shooters are still clinging to the old, "Smith and Wesson's are junk since the Bangor Punta days". It's like a tumor in thier brain, and it's not going to change.
Another thing may be a self inflicted shot in the foot with the collector of the month thing. Like the commemoratives Winchester was coming out with in the late 70's, they had a gun for everything. Case has the Johnny Cash knife, the John Deer knife, the whatever knife, and this can lead to a perception that Case is making a cutlery version of the Boyds Bears or Beenie Babys like one poster mentioned. The over doing of collector knives can "Cheapen" a companies reputation of quality. I know they make money off them, and I have no doubt Case did a market survey on the idea, but as much as it may draw a new customer base, I wonder if it may also loose them some customer base.
An offshoot of the collector thing is the steel snobbery. A lot of old timers look down on stainless steel. With the carved in stone mentality of some people, they've never got beyond the old stainless of the 1940's and 50's, where it really did have some edge holding problems when compared with a good carbon steel. One of the most high ranking bladesmiths I ever knew, still held to the idea that stainless steel was bad stuff, suited only for butter knives and other table wear. He preached it to his last days on this earth, he was so sure of the truth as he knew it. And maybe when compared to his own knives forged out of W2, 5160, and some O1 here and there, it may have been. But life is not black and white, but made up of many shades of grey. Some people are just stuck in time with thier own misconceptions. Just because A is better than B, does not mean B is bad. Just because a Porshe is faster than a Toyota, does not mean the Toyota is a bad car for commuting to work or other real world driving around.
I think the people that will make a statement that they hate Case, and will never buy one of thier knives, are just showing an attitude based on the lack of any knowledge, combined with steel snobbery. We are living in an age of exess in everything, and if it's not the latest hot lick steel, specially blended for jet turbine fan blades or other such hype, they look down thier nose at it. I mean, if it's not the lastest wonder of metalurgy that can hack open a car door or some other Jack Baurish feat, what good is it? Just as there are people who think if a knife does not have instant one hand opening, and a lock so supposedly solid it can jack up an Abrahms fighting vehicle, it can't be a real knife. I've had people look at my sodbuster, or a peaanut, and express wonder that I would use an old worthless knife that's dangerous because it has no lock. Another form of knife snobbery.
People just develope attitudes out of ignorance. I know one older man who still won't buy any Japanese car or truck because of Pearl Harbor. That's okay by me, it leaves the good stuff for those who really appreatiate it. If there's a nitch I think Case is overlooking, it's the one filled by the closing of Schrade and the Old Timer line. I wonder if Case should try making some Old timer type of pocket knives; a little rough, saw cut delrin scales, carbon blades, prices a working man could afford to use on a job site. A Case version of the middleman jack, or the 34OT.
But then, who knows? If I had the answers, I'd be rich, instead of a retired machinist counting pennies.
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sgbeskin
Gold Member
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- Jun 8, 2005
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I hear you Jackknife! Wish I had the answers too!
Daddy hasn't ever cared what kind of steel his Case had. I talked to him yesterday about this thread. He laughed and said "there is a place where people only talk about knives? Ain't nothin' to a knife but a blade and a handle, what more is there to say?"
But i did tell him about what a couple of us have said about the radius of the handle in the older knives, blade snap, etc... The old man said that sounded about right to him.
Daddy hasn't ever cared what kind of steel his Case had. I talked to him yesterday about this thread. He laughed and said "there is a place where people only talk about knives? Ain't nothin' to a knife but a blade and a handle, what more is there to say?"
But i did tell him about what a couple of us have said about the radius of the handle in the older knives, blade snap, etc... The old man said that sounded about right to him.
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