Case....hate?

[hunterfisher808]

Jackknife, now thats a pretty 20/20 observation. Great take on it!

 

[kamagong]

I think the people that will make a statement that they hate Case, and will never buy one of thier knives, are just showing an attitude based on the lack of any knowledge, combined with steel snobbery.

jk, while I think you may be reading too much into the personal decision about whether to buy a Case knife, I have to ask you if steel snobbery is always such a bad thing. This is a good time to be a knife nut. If someone doesn’t like Tru-Sharp stainless, that person doesn’t have to accept it and can find something with ATS-34, D2, or 1095. I love the fact that we as consumers don’t have to take what a knife company tells us is good enough, we can go out into the market and choose something better.

Plus, I don’t think it’s snobbery to acknowledge that something is better. For a using knife, ATS-34 is a better steel than Tru-Sharp stainless, and that is a fact. That’s probably why Tony Bose chose ATS-34 for his Case collaborations, and did not choose Tru-Sharp.

 

[yobbos1]

What Jackknife said. +1:thumbup:

 

[338375]

jk, while I think you may be reading too much into the personal decision about whether to buy a Case knife, I have to ask you if steel snobbery is always such a bad thing. This is a good time to be a knife nut. If someone doesn’t like Tru-Sharp stainless, that person doesn’t have to accept it and can find something with ATS-34, D2, or 1095. I love the fact that we as consumers don’t have to take what a knife company tells us is good enough, we can go out into the market and choose something better.

Plus, I don’t think it’s snobbery to acknowledge that something is better. For a using knife, ATS-34 is a better steel than Tru-Sharp stainless, and that is a fact. That’s probably why Tony Bose chose ATS-34 for his Case collaborations, and did not choose Tru-Sharp.

Agreed that there are many choices to be had these days, and thats not a bad thing. I like ATS-34 and have had it on quite a few knives as well as D2..
For the average person that doesn't spend hours a day on here and just buys a knife to use, most of them probably couldn't even tell you what type of steel their knife has. They use it, and when it gets dull they sharpen it...
I wouldn't be as much fun, but sometimes I think there is a lot to be said for that way of thinking. Kinda like in the olden days, it was a tool. Nothing more, nothing less....

Geez, that sounds really boring doesn't it?

 

[jackknife]

jk, while I think you may be reading too much into the personal decision about whether to buy a Case knife, I have to ask you if steel snobbery is always such a bad thing. This is a good time to be a knife nut. If someone doesn’t like Tru-Sharp stainless, that person doesn’t have to accept it and can find something with ATS-34, D2, or 1095. I love the fact that we as consumers don’t have to take what a knife company tells us is good enough, we can go out into the market and choose something better.

Plus, I don’t think it’s snobbery to acknowledge that something is better. For a using knife, ATS-34 is a better steel than Tru-Sharp stainless, and that is a fact. That’s probably why Tony Bose chose ATS-34 for his Case collaborations, and did not choose Tru-Sharp.

I don't like snobbery of any kind, espcially if it's the type where it's won't make any difference.

Of course, if you're paying hundreds of dollars on a custom knife, you want a better steel. But in a production knife, I'll be willing to bet that 95% of the people who will be carrying the knife won't be able to tell the differnce in a day to day using situation. The truth is, most people these days live in an urban or suburban environment, and the days of grandad working the family farm are long gone for most Americans. For the Joe Averidge working guy driving to work in his SUV, I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that they won't know what kind of blade steel is in thier knife. Look at who's the biggest knife company in the world; Victorinox. The sak mystery steel is along the lines of something like 440A, but for the millions of millions of knives they make each year, the rest of the world doesn't seem to care what steel is in the blade. They sell more knives than any three of thier competitors put together.

Yes, ATS-34, and D2, are better steels, but in my experiance the heat treat and profile are the deal breakers, not the steel. I personally won't buy any knives from Queen because I have the odd opinion that a knife, or anything you buy should be fully functional and ready to go right then. Of the Queen knives I've bought, all arrived dull as a butter knife. To me that's just not tollerable. It's like buying a new car that won't run, or a new gun that won't shoot till it gets some gunsmith attention. I don't care if Queen uses a better steel or that I can get a S&M with ATS-34, if I have to spend hours working on it to get it up to speed, or send it back or to someone to be reprofiled, that's a deal breaker to me.

But these people who say they won't buy a Case because they look down thier nose at the True Sharp, most likely won't know the difference. I've been using knives most of my 68 years now, since I was a little kid, and I have to admit, on the days when I'm carrying my bone stag true sharp peanut, I can't tell the difference in cutting. And I've cut a heck of alot of stuff in my life. When there's a tomato plant drooping and I have to cut a piece of jute twine, the true sharp goes right through it. When the UPS truck drops off my monthly shipment of tobacco from Fred Stoker, the true sharp opens the box with same efficiancy of my CV peanut. I know if I cut open boxes all day, I'd be able to tell a difference, maybe, but who does that? If they do work in a stockroom, chances are they have a box cutter on them.

Most of the rest of the world is not looking at knife magazines, going online at knife forums, or even aware there are knife shows. But some of the people who may feel they need a pocket knife don't care what it's made out of, just that it works. Knives like Douk-Douk's, Opinels, Mercators, and such, have been around a very long time, yet they remain popular today as in the past. A Douk-Douk is tempered almost as soft as some machete's, yet it cuts. It works. When it gets dull, it gets sharpened. And there is one of the problems. Most people I know are not very good at sharpening.

Sooner or later, that knife is going to need to be touched up. A D2 blade at RC58-59 is going to be harder to sharpen in a few minutes than a true sharp, 440A, 1095, or other simple steel. Most working people don't want to, or have the time to play with thier knives, that are cult worship items. They want something to sharpen up quick and get back to work or whatever. It's only the dedicted knife knut that plays with, fondles, and admires thier knives. The same kind of people that will buy a knife from Tony Bose. To them it may make a difference. But they are about 1% of the knife buying public. For the rest of the world, they seem to go with something that can be touched up fast. Like the butcher I saw in Spain. In a small rural town a guy was butchering a goat. The knife was not cutting as well as it could have, so the guy goes over to the stone steps of a shop, uses the stone step to strop his knife on, goes back to butchering the goat and nodding in satisfaction at the improvement. All he cared about was getting the job done. And that's the bottom line with any tool. And isn't that the botton line with anything? That it work?

I had the exreme privilege of having as a friend for over 30 years, Bill Moran. Bill was a stickler for one thing; he always preached that any item should function at it's intended task before any other consideration. Form following function. In all the years I knew Bill, I saw he was a very parctical man. He always carried a small sheath knife of his own making on his hip. About a 4 inch little thing, very much like a mora number 1. It was a very nice knife, with Bill's signature silver wire inlays, and relief carving on the curley maple handle. But what I had to laugh at the irony of, on his keyring he had a Victorinox classic. He'd open his mail with it, and use it for things here and there. He'd use it to keep his sheath knife in show condition to use as an example of his craft, while using the little sak for his mundane cutting chores. Yes, there was William F. Moran Jr., happily cutting away with a tiny sak, while a couple thousand dollar knife hung on his hip. The sak mystery steel was good enough for one of the worlds best bladesmiths. It worked, and that was what Bill cared about.

I am convinced that these people who hate Case knives are simply over impressed with themselves, and are not dealing with reality. I'd like to know how many owners of Tony Bose knives take them out and use them on job sites, small game and fish, camping, and general outdoors stuff. How many of them are safe queens, and will never see use outside the sock drawer or vault? In most cases, these "I'll never buy a Case knife" people are just depriving themselves of owning a very nice knife, made by very nice people, who care about what they are doing. For the moderate price of a Case knife you get a very good fit and finished knife, that will do the job for 99.999% of what you have to do.

What more can you want?

 

[knarfeng]

I don't like snobbery of any kind, espcially if it's the type where it's won't make any difference.


I am convinced that these people who hate Case knives are simply over impressed with themselves, and are not dealing with reality. I'd like to know how many owners of Tony Bose knives take them out and use them on job sites, small game and fish, camping, and general outdoors stuff. How many of them are safe queens, and will never see use outside the sock drawer or vault? In most cases, these "I'll never buy a Case knife" people are just depriving themselves of owning a very nice knife, made by very nice people, who care about what they are doing. For the moderate price of a Case knife you get a very good fit and finished knife, that will do the job for 99.999% of what you have to do.

What more can you want?

While there are a lot of young folks that overemphasize steel properties, I consider that automatically assuming snobbery is not appropriate. Some folks know exactly what the differences are between steels and exactly what they want or need.

I stand by my words.
Tru-Sharp has very low edge retention compared to an awful lot of other steels. There are people who's daily knife use patterns requires better edge retention than that of Tru-Sharp.

That does not make them snobs.

Even if a person doesn't need, but merely wants some other steel, that still does not make them snobs. It merely means that their tastes or interest in cutlery are different than yours. Even on the traditional forum, I think that is allowed.

By the way, I have several Case knives, and they see pocket time.

 

[Blues]

I agree with you, Frank. Different strokes for different folks.

There's nothing wrong with wanting a certain level of performance out of a knife or steel just as there's nothing wrong with expecting a certain level of fit and finish.

Otherwise we might as well just close up shop as there'd be no variety and nothing to talk about.

You have nothing to apologize or make excuses for in my opinion as your posts and findings have always appeared to be very well reasoned. (And besides, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, whether right or wrong, without being branded.)

Folks, let's try to express ourselves and our opinions without name calling or pointing fingers.

 

[99f250]

I really like Case knives, the fit and finish you get for the money is a bargin be it in CV or SS, however I only collect ones from the 80's and earlier, there's just to many variations with themes, colors and tang stamps today for my taste.

 

[BJE]

I have to aggree with Jackknife, but I am a very old fashioned person, as is his view on tools.

I am glad we have different choices in steels, but the way they are marketed as being so much superior is just wrong. I was a bit of a steel snob and preferred the higher end stuff, but when it came down to actually using it I couldn't tell a difference. Sharpening is another story however, I can really notice a difference there and it isn't better. I am now and have been for some time, completely satisfied with 1095 and SAK steel.

I think it is human nature to always want something better, and I think certain knife companies are taking advantage of this and making us believe the other steels are garbage and not fit to carry. They are trying to sell a product after all, they want you to think theirs is better than the other guys.

I have found what I like and I relize everyone is different, I hope you all find something you are satisfied with someday, it is a great feeling to be happy with what you have and not want more.

Try not to fall into a marketing scams, once you relize you are wanting something because they are telling you to want it, you start thinking with a more level head and make wiser financial decisions.
If something works great for years and suddendly stops being good enough because someone told you so, it might have something to do with them wanting you to buy their product.

 

[CUTS LIKE A KRIS]

I don't like snobbery of any kind,

The truth is, most people these days live in an urban or suburban environment, and the days of grandad working the family farm are long gone for most Americans.

What more can you want?

With much respect (I seem to be negative in this forum and will post positives in the near future I promise) I must take you to task for these statements, from my own personal experience, Where you live makes no difference to what work you expect out of a knife (I lived 20 years on a farm and now 11 years urban:grumpy. When I worked in an oilfield warehouse I used my knives daily and somewhat hard. I needed a steel that was tough enough and held an edge until the end of the day at least. From my experience the "lower end" steels would not cut it from a day to day basis. I asked for what the higher end steels brought, and woked within the limitations of that steel. I do still carry a SAK with it's mystery steel, but in honesty only use the electricians blade much, and reserve most cutting to other steels. Currently I prefer D2 for my Traditionals as it has the toothy edge I prefer as well as the toughness that works best for me. I still will carry a lower grade steel when the pattern fits my daily activities better, but will always pick a better steel if the same option is given.

I do respect your experience but this has been mine.

 

[BJE]

When I worked in an oilfield warehouse I used my knives daily and somewhat hard. I needed a steel that was tough enough and held an edge until the end of the day at least. From my experience the "lower end" steels would not cut it from a day to day basis.

Interesting point, one I don't put much thought into because I have never had that problem. I broke down a butt load of cardboard yesterday with my SAK, and while it was noticeably less sharp than when I started, it still had no problems breezing through the task. If it would have become too dull to use, I have an extra blade I could turn to and I keep a small pocket stone in my truck.

Simple steels have been adequate for professionals for years, people that use their knives much harder in a day than I do in a month. Take the Green River Knife Works knives that were used by plainsmen to skin BUFFALO, I can't think of any larger task you could take on with a simple single bladed knife than that.

Not saying this is the case with you, but I know a lot of people that justify over-the-top items by saying they need them. Knowing darn well they never would have exceeded the limits of the "lesser" item. There are some people in this world that actually need S90V, but they are few and far between.

All of this has been my personal opinion and as such it is subject to being occasionally...
wrong.

 

[Blues]

In the end it seems to me that folks are entitled to get what they paid for.

If that's premium steel and super edge holding...so be it. If it's art and aesthetics, that's fine as well. If it's old timey nostalgia, who's to say otherwise? Your money, you get to choose.

Bottom line, we each come to this with varying tastes, requirements, likes and dislikes. As long as we can find a maker that can scratch that itch we're ahead of the game. There's no need to look askance at another user/collector's set of priorities.

Who's to say what's valid or warranted? There's plenty of room to accommodate all.

Those who have decided that nobody needs a knife with different characteristics than those they have chosen for themselves are as guilty as anyone else of the same narrow minded point of view that they find objectionable in other instances.

 

[no-one]

If it is all the same to you Gentlemen, I would like to interject for a moment.

I use knives in my lively-hood and have for the last eighteen years, and so long as the knives I use do the job, I could not care less who made them or out of what.

BUT....pocket knives are "BOY JEWELLERY" and as such are intensely personal....and I for one do not want to be sporting the same bling the other blokes are parading about with.



Ps, the good news is that there are not too many Case pocket knives where I live, so I have a couple and am quite happy with them....and there is not a thing wrong with the stainless in the Case Sodbuster JR that I have.

 

[hlee]

I have to admit that for years I was, if not a case hater, not a fan of Case knives. My opinion was formed from hearing my dad and one of his brothers talk about how their case knives wouldn't stay sharp in their pockets. They were tru-sharp or whatever stainless they were using in the 80's. I also remember him and his brother taking about the old yellow handled trappers that they both had, and how they would take and KEEP an edge. From then on, up until quite literally a few weeks ago, I refused to buy Case knives. The collector editions, and commemorative editions, and whatnot did nothing to help their image in my mind. However, a couple of weeks ago I bought a few Northfield (GEC) trappers (the first traditional pattern knives that I had bought myself) and then set out to find a nice whittler pattern. I found a knife shop in the area (not easy in the bay area) and went to have a look. I picked up a case seahorse whittler and it has seen exclusive pocket duty ever since. It displaced a benchmade minigrip, a spyderco mini-manix, and a kershaw whirlwind. Even though those other knives were easier to open and close (they are all one-handed knives), and easier to use in my job- when I realize that the thing that I am holding needs to be opened- I still reach for the whittler in the morning.

The fit and finish of this knife is at least as good as the Northifelds that I bought. Better in a couple of instances of bare head trappers that exhibit gaps between the liners and springs. However, the Case is amber jigged bone and the Northfields are stag, and really good stag at that. From what I can tell Case isn't using great stag on their stag knives, so it is a bit of an unfair comparison. I am open to having my opinion changed if anyone has examples.

You may be wondering why I am not carrying one of the trappers. Well, they were bought as fathers day gifts, one for me and one for my dad- and a coupe others to put away for my two sons (don't tell my wife). As I live 1500 miles from my dad, I haven't given him his knife yet (he is coming to CA this coming weekend) and I have vowed to keep both of our knives as they came from the vendor until I can give his to him.

Now, I can't tell whether the Case will beat out the Northfield for pocket time when the latter is finally unwrapped, but I can say that it has the early lead. I may not be a fan of Case, but I am no hater.

 

[Don Hanson III]

I have to admit that for years I was, if not a case hater, not a fan of Case knives. My opinion was formed from hearing my dad and one of his brothers talk about how their case knives wouldn't stay sharp in their pockets. They were tru-sharp or whatever stainless they were using in the 80's. I also remember him and his brother taking about the old yellow handled trappers that they both had, and how they would take and KEEP an edge.

In my earlier retail knife days we got this all the time. Guys come into the store and see all the Case knives and say "Case used to make a good knife, wish they still offered carbon blades". I'd just smile and point out all the Case knives with CV blades, they usually always bought one or two It amassed me the large number of knife people who thought Case had gone exclusively to SS blades, while the yellow and some bone handled models have always been available in CV.

 

[mnblade]

In my earlier retail knife days we got this all the time. Guys come into the store and see all the Case knives and say "Case used to make a good knife, wish they still offered carbon blades". ... It amassed me the large number of knife people who thought Case had gone exclusively to SS blades, while the yellow and some bone handled models have always been available in CV.

Indeed. This is one of the reasons I kept e-mailing the Case web geeks over and over and over, telling them they needed to create a single easy-to-find page that lists all their CV knives. Having this link makes it easier to spread the gospel.

 

[Sniper X]

one reason given by a pocket knife user collector friend of mine is
the steel. the surgical stainless steel. he does not like it.
carbon is fine with him, also aus 6 & 8 is good too.

if Case used more 1095(CV) he might be more interested

i have a few Case knives, mostly Seahorse patterns. the fit and finish is superb. steel grinds handles are great, no complaints.

Case has re-issued the big balloon whittler in stag , pretty cool
buzz

I love the Seahorse Whittler pattern and have only two. I'd buy some more when I find them for a good price as I love the Case knives, especially the Seahorse.

 

[greater]

I have the Case Peanut and a medium Amber jigged bone stockman both in CV steel and these knives are on the money. They are well made and sharp.

The peanut I got was much better than I expected and the medium stockman was better than I expected.

The Cheetah however I find is just alright since it had some side to side blade play. It is quite a looker though with it's blue bone handles this one has true sharp stainless.

 

[greater]

Very useful well designed tools for the money.

 

[nagamitsu]

I think most of the reasons have already been mentioned.
Quality was up and down for some years, many versions directed more at collectors, and some folks thinking the steel offered is low grade.
But then again some people just don't like certain brands.
Even though I don't personally care for the versions that are more designed for "collectors", I can see Case' point to making the many different versions...

Its all about reaching a broader customer base and keeping the doors open.
If thats what it takes for them to stay in business, I'm all for it.
Recently they have been bringing out versions that are designed to attract the folks that are really after quality users, like the Chestnut CV series.

You will hear people say that they would never own Buck knives either.
However, the lowly 30 dollar 110 or 112 have been around for years and stood the test of time. Its just an old design that doesn't have the latest offering in steel. Although with their Paul Bos heat treating, the steel performs nicely, especially at the price point.

IMHO some people go through life with blinders on and reach decisions based on what others say (or read on the interweb) instead of giving a product a fair chance in the own experience.....

Gentlemen,

I used to collect and carry Case Seahorses, what turned me completely off them was when they introduced their slim lock line of knives.

Whilst I have not handled, nor ever had the thought of buying one, it must be said that the slim lock at around USD100+ upwards looks identical and may perhaps be a reground/re packaged version of the liner lock they marketed in the early 90s. The price back then was in the mid USD20+ according to an old SMKW catalog. Those who have old catalogs featuring Case knives may be able to shed some light to it....

Just my 2 cents worth.

cheers