Case....hate?

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From what I have heard, the Case of the early 90's was not the same Case that it is today, or was in the 60s and earlier. I was under the impression that the early 90s was a low point for the company in terms of the quality of product put out. It may not be fair to compare the two knives, even though they have similar appearance.
 
Is there a market for Case and high end steels? Other than 420J2/420HC, or whatever their current SS steel is? How well do their special editions, like the Bose collaborations, sell? How well do their CV folders sell? Is it worth it to them to go from the collectors and everyday user, that love their SS folders, to alienating them for the few hardcore knife knuts who appreciate good steel, but could get by with SS too ;). I have all kinds of steels, customs, high end productions. S30V, D2, A2 etc. Know what I use the most? My Vic Farmer.

As for fit and finish, the recent Case models I have acquired have greatly improved over the Case knives I did have. The shields do not fall out of the handles, the bolsters do not hang over the scales, the blades don't wiggle as soon as you take them out of the box brand new.
 
shaldag said:
Judging by the difficulty in acquiring them, they must sell pretty d--- well.
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Not to mention the prices. (Which don't seem to go down much though an occasional bargain shows up.)
 
Why would the choice of high end steel alienate collectors and everyday users? The question is, "would the capital costs of tooling up a high end line of knives be offset by the sale of those knives, given that the target market is some miniscule % of the total market?" Would the knife nuts notice the change?

I know that if someone says the name of any large knife manufacturer that a stereotypical representation of the knives they produce pops into my mind. Randall- model 1, buck- 110, case- stockman, etc. I wonder how many people here would notice if spyderco came out with a high end line of truely traditional pocket knives? I wonder how many of us would think to check whether or not Case changed their stainless steel useage from tru-sharp to ZDP-189? And of them, how many would actually make a pruchase?

Case's problem is that the financial market is still in the toilet. People are losing their jobs. People would rather buy bread than collectibles. Most of us don't NEED a knife, and most of those of us that do could get by with most any knife. Too many people are letting the panic sway their discretionary purchases. Even when they have no rational reason to scrimp, they do. My job is in no danger of being cut, neither is my wife's, and before the meltdown we were living within our means. Even still, I have cut back on nonessential purchases. When the economy recovers and the panic subsides, Case will likely still be here.
 
I have a few Case slip joints and have compared them to a classic John Primble (OK Primble is a little crude on finish, fit is just satisfactory) congress and an Amherst cutlery stag doctor.

I like the Cases better. Two out the six have a tiny bit of side to side blade play (red bone small Texas toothpick and yellow handled pen knife [the large blade] both CV.) not enough to matter regardless.

The others are right up there on fit and finish, the red bone congress CV, jigged amber bone medium stockman CV, a jigged amber bone tru-sharp trapper/hunter (gut hook has ever so teeny tiny side to side play barely noticeable,) and the Peanut yellow handled CV. The peanut and congress has half stops which I really like.

I consider the peanut to actually be the best in fit and finish (go figure) and the pen last (still good however.)

Except for the Northwoods blade forum knife (which cuts as good as the case) the Case knives cut better. Fit and finish on the Northwoods was excellent out of the box but the large blade did get side to side play after use and EDC. To be fair the Vintage Primble (old new stock) came with such a lousy edge out the box
I don't really know if it will cut as good when sharpened.

While the Amherst doctors knife has excellent fit and finish it came to me with a small portion of the blade about 1/4 inch long on the upper 1/4 of the blade near the tip blunted and dinged. I managed to sharpen most of it out (not too easy,) however I cannot get a screaming sharp edge on the entire blade (440C) it gets sharp but not screaming hair popping sharp.

Maybe it's my sharpening skills or the fact that carbon steel takes a keener edge with less effort I don't know but the Tru-sharp takes a keen edge with no problem.

All in all my first impression tells me for the money Case Rocks. For top quality fit and finish, more times than not, a Case will be right up there running head to head, and if you happen to get one with a tiny bit of wiggle unless your a precision fanatic it won't matter. For utility I would think a Case would be hard to beat in price, handiness, and value. They also look beautiful.

These Cases I have are the latest modern ones by the way.
 
I have several Case knives & for the most part, have been very happy with the fit & finish on current models. (& older ones)
Given the popularity here of the Peanut alone, I've wondered why Case doesn't have their own sub-forum under Manufacturers.
 
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Manufacturers have to supply a company rep as forum mod to have a forum in the manufacturers' section. For some it is worth the effort, for others it is not.
 
The Case stainless knives are targeted to collectors. The idea is to provide something very corrosion resistant so the knife will keep its appearance over the years. The carbon steel blades and higher end stainless blades are targeted at users. The idea is to provide good blade performance. That is not to say you can't use collectors or collect users. It is just the intended application.

You get the same kind of attitude in other product categories on the internet. As an example, a lot of road bike riders avoid Trek, probably for the same reasons some knife buyers avoid Case. Trek bikes are as good as any but they are very common. It would be sexier to have a Ciocc or a Kuota or something a lot of people don't have. This may hold true of Case as well. Case knives are popular and well made. They just aren't rare. I own about 100 Case knives myself. I think they are just fine.
 
Blues said:
Yes, I believe so generally. (Of course it's all about the heat treat. I'm sure Case is looking for that sweet spot between edge retention and ease of sharpening.)

I know that Frank, (knarfeng) has done some comparative tests with CV and Case stainless. I'll let him reply here when he gets the chance but as I recall he estimated the rockwell hardness as middle to middle high 50's on the stainless.
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i met a factory Case man at a show and i asked him about the steel. he did not answer direct but after i asked repeatedly he said it will only Rockwell out to 55. then from somewhere they told me they used 420J or 420HJ a new and improved 420. the reason i think for the soft stainless is ease of production. you can stamp 420 and 440C you must wire cut or water jet cut or mill it. that raises production costs.

but i am only guessing.
 
While there is a question about the validity of my measurement because the tang may have been annealed, I did measure a Case Tru-Sharp mini-trapper at 55 HRC.
 
Case knives were the first which exposed me to the classic American pocketknife patterns. I remember salivating over the different patterns advertised in Blade and Knives Illustrated.

When I finally took the plunge (about 10 years ago), I have ordered 3 working knives: the brown delrin peanut, the brown delrin medium stockman and the yellow delrin stainless steel trapper. I ordered them from the Shepherd's Hill Cutlery, and paid near full retail plus MO taxes to boot. What I got was less than disappointing. All three knives had serious fit and finish issues, the trapper being the worst but the other two did not lag too much behind either. Backsprings sticking out both in closed and open positions, rounded tips, uneven grinds, extremely angled down blades in the fully open positions, blade rubs, unevenly ground and dull blades, space between the liners and scales or the scales and bolsters etc.

I was really disappointed, this was nothing I have expected for the fair amount of money I have paid. (FYI for the same amount of money you could buy much nicer single blade customs with deer stag scales back in Europe). At that point, I decided that I will not buy Case knives anymore. Well, this "anymore" lasted about 5-6 years, no more...:D

Being the knife nut I am, I thought that these decisions are not moral guidelines set in stone, so if circumstances change, no big harm done if revisited (at least no bigger harm than the one to my wallet.)

A few years ago I saw a few case knives at a display at Lowes and that's how I ended up buying the amber bone square bolster medium stockman in CV.
I picked one out of 3 or 4 and it was really-really good: F&F great, walk and talk ditto, the bone nice, in short a nice knife to have.
Soon another medium stockman and an orange G10 seahorse whittler followed to be given as a gift.

A few days ago I spotted a nice Case peanut at the local ACE hardware store. It is the Brooks and Dunn "A case for America" series gift tin edition with their CD included. Out of three one looked perfect, so I bought it.
Now, this is the nicest Case knife and one of the nicest recent production slipjoints I have seen! :thumbup: :thumbup:
Stunning F&F, perfectly ground and SHARP edges, pointy tips, nice red/pink/white clored bone (salmon? even though the online descriptions say and the package photo shows "red bone").

Jackknife, now I am a peanut convert too! :eek: :D

Yesterday, I bought another one and a medium stainless round bolster amber bone stockman too.
The second peanut is almost as nice as the first one; the stockman has a nice finish, mostly good fit, good walk and talk, but once again, a completely rounded tip on the clip blade and an undulating edge with somewhat rounded tip on the sheepfoot blade.:thumbdn: And this was the best from the lot at the store! The edges on the stockman were rough and dull, the leftover burr would definitely damage someone's skin but would not slice.

Long story short: I too think, Case quality improved over the last 10 years, but still it is quite inconsistent. Some patterns might have a consistently better quality, while others are quite poor quality, comparable to Bear & Sons, but sadly below the average Chinese quality you can get nowadays.

I have to admit, had I not read about the layoffs and difficulties at Case, I might not have bought these knives. As it is, I am glad I got the peanuts (a beginning of a new addiction? :eek:), but I am not very impressed with the stockman. I sharpened it up and it will see EDC duties. I will give it a chance, it might grow on me.

I would just hate if yet another American knife company would close. I am still mad at the closing of Camillus and Schrade!:mad:
At the time I thought I would rather had Case closed but Camillus left alone.
Now, I just hope Case will not go under too. There are not many American knife companies left, and Case is definitely one which seems to care about quality and customer feedback!
It deserves to be saved!
 
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